When should gifted and talented (G&T) programs start?

[Cameron]

This question is inspired by news that Mamdani plans to phase out the NYC public school's G&T program for kindergarteners. It's not clear to me, but it looks like there would still be a G&T program beginning at least by third grade.

I generally support G&T programs. Every kid deserves an education tailored as much as possible to their own needs. For bright kids, that means advanced instruction. For kids who are a little behind, that means remedial attention. It benefits no one to have classes with kids who are all over the place on the educational development spectrum. In NYC, the G&T program also provides a real opportunity for middle- and low-income students to get as good an education as private school students. At the same time, I think there can and needs to be significant integration in appropriate contexts like gym class, lunch, recess, extra-curricular activities, etc.

I understand the criticism that G&T programs, especially those that begin at very young ages, create a kind of pipeline or class structure where certain kids (typically those from privileged backgrounds or with unusually engaged parents) end up with eternal advantages over others. But I really don't know how you solve the problem of privilege through the education system itself. (Unlike many, I prefer to look at this through a privilege lens rather than a race lens.)

Anyway, my main question is when do you think G&T programs should start? Should kids be given an opportunity of a few years at least to commingle with each other before they are sorted into academic groups, or is it important even at the kindergarten level to segregate out classes?

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[BirdinHand]

I think there should be a general screening for G&T programs somewhere between 2-4 grade.

If a student is suspected to be G&T - by either a parent or a teacher - testing should be done earlier.

 

[Greenbeard]

Third grade seems fine.

 

[Cameron]

My initial reaction was why would you need a G&T program in kindergarten? What academically are kids really doing at that age? But then I thought about it some more, and it occurred to me that in kindergarten, you probably have some kids who are inquisitive and creative and deserve a particular type of attention to stimulate and reward those traits, while others are little wild beasts who are running around causing chaos and need a different kind of education. It's almost more of a behavioral thing than an academic potential kind of thing. So I can imagine the value of a "G&T" kindergarten program.

That said, not having a kid in the system or a background in early childhood education, this is mostly speculation on my part.

 

[Grand Mal]

This question is inspired by news that Mamdani plans to phase out the NYC public school's G&T program for kindergarteners. It's not clear to me, but it looks like there would still be a G&T program beginning at least by third grade.

I generally support G&T programs. Every kid deserves an education tailored as much as possible to their own needs. For bright kids, that means advanced instruction. For kids who are a little behind, that means remedial attention. It benefits no one to have classes with kids who are all over the place on the educational development spectrum. In NYC, the G&T program also provides a real opportunity for middle- and low-income students to get as good an education as private school students. At the same time, I think there can and needs to be significant integration in appropriate contexts like gym class, lunch, recess, extra-curricular activities, etc.

I understand the criticism that G&T programs, especially those that begin at very young ages, create a kind of pipeline or class structure where certain kids (typically those from privileged backgrounds or with unusually engaged parents) end up with eternal advantages over others. But I really don't know how you solve the problem of privilege through the education system itself. (Unlike many, I prefer to look at this through a privilege lens rather than a race lens.)

Anyway, my main question is when do you think G&T programs should start? Should kids be given an opportunity of a few years at least to commingle with each other before they are sorted into academic groups, or is it important even at the kindergarten level to segregate out classes?

New York Times
CBS News
NY Post

Grade four for me. 'Enrichment program' they called it, grades four to seven.

 

[phoenix2020]

Kindergarten for me. Earlier is better.

 

[reinaert]

My initial reaction was why would you need a G&T program in kindergarten? What academically are kids really doing at that age? But then I thought about it some more, and it occurred to me that in kindergarten, you probably have some kids who are inquisitive and creative and deserve a particular type of attention to stimulate and reward those traits, while others are little wild beasts who are running around causing chaos and need a different kind of education. It's almost more of a behavioral thing than an academic potential kind of thing. So I can imagine the value of a "G&T" kindergarten program.

That said, not having a kid in the system or a background in early childhood education, this is mostly speculation on my part.

I was separated out for gifted education. It was isolating. I was in a class with a max of only eight students, but for two years, we were just six. When our first teacher was replaced, it also became unbearable. Mrs B understood how to guide. Mrs S thought because we all had high IQs we should be able to endure her burdensome, overloaded grind.

 

[reinaert]

Kindergarten for me. Earlier is better.

Too young. It makes for elitists.

 

[dmpi]

Too young. It makes for elitists.

They're already elitists. They have parents that are highly involved and tend to micro-manage.

 

[Grand Mal]

I was separated out for gifted education. It was isolating. I was in a class with a max of only eight students, but for two years, we were just six. When our first teacher was replaced, it also became unbearable. Mrs B understood how to guide. Mrs S thought because we all had high IQs we should be able to endure her burdensome, overloaded grind.

Mine was a normal-sized class as I remember, but it was isolating in that we were the same students every year, grades four to seven, and we were from all over the district so natural friendships among us were difficult.
Then we hit junior high school, grade 8, with everyone being from our catchment area so with no relationships with the others in our classes.

 

[Helix]

My school started advanced reading in first grade. I think that the G&T program began in third grade.

 

[reinaert]

They're already elitists.

Five year olds?

They have parents that are highly involved and tend to micro-manage.

While this is a shit type of parent, you have not demonstrated that micromanagement or heavy involvement produces elitists. Plenty of involved patents do so with a light, living touch.

Anyway.

Isolating children into a small, elite group produces elitists.

Micromanagement, conversely, tends to produce people who check out or learn to shirk burdens efficiently. This was my experience, and my observational conclusion from years of management.