• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

When its too late for an abortion

Straw Man; but good effort. How many of those 400,000 are healthy newborns?

Not a straw man at all.

1.3 percent of abortions take place after 21 weeks gestion and 80 percent of those are because of catastrophic fetal abnormalities.

From Romper:

Dr. Gunter supplied a few facts of her own. Only 1.3 percent of abortions happen at, or after, 21 weeks, she said, and 80 percent of those are the results of catastrophic defects with the fetus. Dr. Gunter continued with a powerful explanation of why women generally seek out procedures like a late-term abortion.

Read more:

Which States Offer Late-Term Abortions? They Are Very Difficult To Access



Fetal deformities do not show up on ultrasounds until 18 weeks or after. Therefore doctors perform ultrasounds on their pregnant patients between 18 and 20 weeks. Which only gives parent and doctor a couple of weeks to determine how bad the defect is and if she wants an abortion since viabilty usually occurs by about 24 weeks.

Even with the 80 percent of fetal abnormalities sabortions occuring after 21 weeks

Birth defects, also known as congenital anomalies, occur in approximately 3 percent of all live births1 and are the second leading cause of infant mortality behind prematurity, accounting for 20.9 percent of all infant deaths in the United States in 2011.



In spite of those
 
Last edited:
It reflects that life is cheap. We can always make more.

Life may be cheap, but living is becoming more and more costly. Perhaps abortion might be seen as the more humane action as opposed to bringing someone into a world where so many are suffering?
 
THe time is always right for an abortion. But, having one after midnight might be problematic. Best is to have one in the morning.
 
pretty low percentages. So it's 75% of abortions are for convenience. That's a BIG, BIG number.

LMAO
your feelings and opinions =\= facts

why post so many lies/ignorance?
 
Straw Man; but good effort. How many of those 400,000 are healthy newborns?

pretty low percentages. So it's 75% of abortions are for convenience. That's a BIG, BIG number.

I think I have a different opinion on the numbers.

So the numbers show that actual fetal or maternal health issues precipitated the abortion in 13 /12 percent of the time. What if a woman acknowledges she had crappy access to health care and poor physical and social resources to give her the best chance at a safe pregnancy? I have my kidneys and my life because I had good insurance with an experienced doctor with top notch medical facilities readily available to me. I had reasonable financial resources. So an astute OBGYN noticed a subtle sign (because I was not in a overburdened /under resourced medicaid/county clinic with a different MD every time) and did further tests.

By the time all was said and done, I was off work for almost 6 months. I went deeply into debt to pay for living without a paycheck and paying cobra payments. I had the LUXURY of going into debt so I didn't go homeless or lose my insurance. Most women who chose abortion may not have such resources. While not actively ill, they are acknowledging that they lack sufficient resources for the "what ifs" that happen alot in pregnancy. I was lucky to been allowed to keep my job. Do you think a working poor person would have such opportunity?

I found out the hard way that even a very healthy person can have multiple serious complications. 6 weeks in you have no clue what is to come.

When I hear the pro-life side say "if you are not ready to be a parent, just adopt out your baby" How the hell does that minimize the real inherent risks in pregnancy - especially without access to better obstetrical care and access to decent social resources.
 
Not a straw man at all.

1.3 percent of abortions take place after 21 weeks gestion and 80 percent of those are because of catastrophic fetal abnormalities.

From Romper:



Read more:

Which States Offer Late-Term Abortions? They Are Very Difficult To Access



Fetal deformities do not show up on ultrasounds until 18 weeks or after. Therefore doctors perform ultrasounds on their pregnant patients between 18 and 20 weeks. Which only gives parent and doctor a couple of weeks to determine how bad the defect is and if she wants an abortion since viabilty usually occurs by about 24 weeks.

Even with the 80 percent of fetal abnormalities sabortions occuring after 21 weeks

Birth defects, also known as congenital anomalies, occur in approximately 3 percent of all live births1 and are the second leading cause of infant mortality behind prematurity, accounting for 20.9 percent of all infant deaths in the United States in 2011.



In spite of those

1.3%..... thanks for making my point.
 
Life may be cheap, but living is becoming more and more costly. Perhaps abortion might be seen as the more humane action as opposed to bringing someone into a world where so many are suffering?

what?....what?...... so now you rationalize killing a baby because the cost of living is on the rise? Or because there is suffering in the world? Your reasoning is scary.
 
I think I have a different opinion on the numbers.

So the numbers show that actual fetal or maternal health issues precipitated the abortion in 13 /12 percent of the time. What if a woman acknowledges she had crappy access to health care and poor physical and social resources to give her the best chance at a safe pregnancy? I have my kidneys and my life because I had good insurance with an experienced doctor with top notch medical facilities readily available to me. I had reasonable financial resources. So an astute OBGYN noticed a subtle sign (because I was not in a overburdened /under resourced medicaid/county clinic with a different MD every time) and did further tests.

By the time all was said and done, I was off work for almost 6 months. I went deeply into debt to pay for living without a paycheck and paying cobra payments. I had the LUXURY of going into debt so I didn't go homeless or lose my insurance. Most women who chose abortion may not have such resources. While not actively ill, they are acknowledging that they lack sufficient resources for the "what ifs" that happen alot in pregnancy. I was lucky to been allowed to keep my job. Do you think a working poor person would have such opportunity?

I found out the hard way that even a very healthy person can have multiple serious complications. 6 weeks in you have no clue what is to come.

When I hear the pro-life side say "if you are not ready to be a parent, just adopt out your baby" How the hell does that minimize the real inherent risks in pregnancy - especially without access to better obstetrical care and access to decent social resources.

I have no problem with abortions because of real health issues with the mother. NO problem. I have NO problem aborting severely unhealthy babies. But the VAST majority of abortions are performed on healthy women. There are homes just waiting to adopt that healthy baby.
 
1.3%..... thanks for making my point.

Aborted for catastrophic fetal abnormalies.

Another 3 percent of born babies have major birth defects.

Another 1 percent are stillborn. Many of the stillborn had fetal abnormalities.

Those are just the numbers of fetal health issues.

12 percent of the women seeking abortions in 2004 stated were concerned about their health.

Many of those women already had health conditions that were not favorable to pregnancy.

Even seemingly “ normal “ pregnancies can have complications that are caused by the pregnancy.

Any pregnancy can take a turn at a moments notice and put the woman’s health and even her life at risk, at a point where an abortion once the symptoms are there will be too late to prevent a death of the woman or lifelong major irreparable disability.

That’s why no woman should be forced to take the risk if she wants an early elective abortion it should be her choice not to risk the pregnancy. Some women can sence there is something wrong ahead of time.


Life threatening complications aren't rare up to 8 percent of all pregnancies affected by pre- eclampsia or one of it's variants including HELLP syndrome.

We never know when a pregnancy might take a turn and become life threatening to someone we love.


Another 1 to 2.5 percent of pregnancies are ectopic pregnancies which are also life threatening.

So about 1 out 10 pregnancies can be life threatening just from 2 of the many types of life threatening complications.... eclampsia variants and ectopic pregnancies.

My daughter had HELLP syndrome with her pregnancy and she was very close to death when they performed the emergency
C section.

She went to the ER a few weeks before her due date because she was getting a horrible pain in her back just below her ribs which was caused because her liver was being damaged from the HELLP syndrome.
Usually there is pain the upper right part of the abdomen but her pain was in the back because her liver was swelling and shutting down.
They were worried her liver might fail.


Her OB/GYN was shocked when her test results came back showing she had HELLP syndrome. She had just seen him a couple days before and everything with the pregnancy appeared fine then.

My daughter was one the up to 8 percent of women in the US who every year developes 'preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome." Thankfully she was not one of the roughly 300 US women who do die from the syndrome every year but she was one of the roughly 75,000 women every year who are counted as near misses.

From the following article:

Every year in the U.S., up to 8 percent, or 300,000, of pregnant or postpartum women develop preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome.

Roughly 300 women die, and another 75,000 women experience “near misses”—severe complications and injury such as organ failure, massive blood loss, permanent disability, and premature birth or death of their babies.
Usually, the disease resolves with the birth of the baby and placenta. But, it can occur postpartum—indeed, most maternal deaths occur after delivery.

Beyond Downton Abbey: Preeclampsia Maternal Deaths Continue Today

A little more about HELLP Syndrome:
HELLP syndrome is a life-threatening pregnancy complication usually considered to be a variant of preeclampsia. Both conditions usually occur during the later stages of pregnancy, or sometimes after childbirth.

HELLP syndrome was named by Dr. Louis Weinstein in 1982 after its characteristics:

H (hemolysis, which is the breaking down of red blood cells)
EL (elevated liver enzymes)
LP (low platelet count)

HELLP syndrome can be difficult to diagnose, especially when high blood pressure and protein in the urine aren't present. Its symptoms are sometimes mistaken for gastritis, flu, acute hepatitis, gall bladder disease, or other conditions.

The global mortality rate of HELLP syndrome has been reported to be as high as 25%.


HELLP Syndrome: Preeclampsia Foundation

Now many women like myself and my daughter continue our pregnancies because we choose to become parents.

But I cannot morally support a law or a country that did not allow elective abortions (before viability ) and thus forced women to continue a pregnancy that may very well put her long term health or life at risk.

On the other side of the coin I could not morally support a law or a country that would force a women to have an abortion against her will even if her unborn were so malformed that if it did survive birth it would cost taxpayers millions of dollars in medical care.

Each woman should have the legal option to choose whether or not she wishes to continue her pregnancy.
 
Last edited:
Aborted for catastrophic fetal abnormalies.

Another 3 percent of born babies have major birth defects.

Another 1 percent are stillborn. Many of the stillborn had fetal abnormalities.

Those are just the numbers of fetal health issues.

12 percent of the women seeking abortions in 2004 stated were concerned about their health.

Many of those women already had health conditions that were not favorable to pregnancy.

Even seemingly “ normal “ pregnancies can have complications that are caused by the pregnancy.

Any pregnancy can take a turn at a moments notice and put the woman’s health and even her life at risk, at a point where an abortion once the symptoms are there will be too late to prevent a death of the woman or lifelong major irreparable disability.

That’s why no woman should be forced to take the risk if she wants an early elective abortion it should be her choice not to risk the pregnancy. Some women can sence there is something wrong ahead of time.


Life threatening complications aren't rare up to 8 percent of all pregnancies affected by pre- eclampsia or one of it's variants including HELLP syndrome.

We never know when a pregnancy might take a turn and become life threatening to someone we love.


Another 1 to 2.5 percent of pregnancies are ectopic pregnancies which are also life threatening.

So about 1 out 10 pregnancies can be life threatening just from 2 of the many types of life threatening complications.... eclampsia variants and ectopic pregnancies.

My daughter had HELLP syndrome with her pregnancy and she was very close to death when they performed the emergency
C section.

She went to the ER a few weeks before her due date because she was getting a horrible pain in her back just below her ribs which was caused because her liver was being damaged from the HELLP syndrome.
Usually there is pain the upper right part of the abdomen but her pain was in the back because her liver was swelling and shutting down.
They were worried her liver might fail.


Her OB/GYN was shocked when her test results came back showing she had HELLP syndrome. She had just seen him a couple days before and everything with the pregnancy appeared fine then.

My daughter was one the up to 8 percent of women in the US who every year developes 'preeclampsia, eclampsia, or a related condition such as HELLP syndrome." Thankfully she was not one of the roughly 300 US women who do die from the syndrome every year but she was one of the roughly 75,000 women every year who are counted as near misses.

From the following article:



Beyond Downton Abbey: Preeclampsia Maternal Deaths Continue Today

A little more about HELLP Syndrome:



HELLP Syndrome: Preeclampsia Foundation

Now many women like myself and my daughter continue our pregnancies because we choose to become parents.

But I cannot morally support a law or a country that did not allow elective abortions (before viability ) and thus forced women to continue a pregnancy that may very well put her long term health or life at risk.

On the other side of the coin I could not morally support a law or a country that would force a women to have an abortion against her will even if her unborn were so malformed that if it did survive birth it would cost taxpayers millions of dollars in medical care.

Each woman should have the legal option to choose whether or not she wishes to continue her pregnancy.

So the numbers are still quite low. Most abortions are performed on healthy women and healthy babies. The vast majority. thanks for making my point. And as I said previously, I have no problem with abortions if the mother has serious health issues or the baby has serious health issues. That's not typically the case though, is it.... most abortions are for convenience.
 
I have no problem with abortions because of real health issues with the mother. NO problem. I have NO problem aborting severely unhealthy babies. But the VAST majority of abortions are performed on healthy women. There are homes just waiting to adopt that healthy baby.

We are not broodmares for the barren. Nobody is entitled to a child.
 
So the numbers are still quite low. Most abortions are performed on healthy women and healthy babies. The vast majority. thanks for making my point. And as I said previously, I have no problem with abortions if the mother has serious health issues or the baby has serious health issues. That's not typically the case though, is it.... most abortions are for convenience.

You are ignoring what I posted about pregnancy complications that put women’s health at risk.



Even seemingly “ normal “ pregnancies can have complications that are caused by the pregnancy.

Any pregnancy can take a turn at a moments notice and put the woman’s health and even her life at risk, at a point where an abortion once the symptoms are there will be too late to prevent a death of the woman or lifelong major irreparable disability.

That’s why no woman should be forced to take the risk if she wants an early elective abortion it should be her choice not to risk the pregnancy. Some women can sence there is something wrong ahead of time.


Life threatening complications aren't rare.

We never know when a pregnancy might take a turn and become life threatening to someone we love.
 
I have no problem with abortions because of real health issues with the mother. NO problem. I have NO problem aborting severely unhealthy babies. But the VAST majority of abortions are performed on healthy women. There are homes just waiting to adopt that healthy baby.

As I have discussed, I was healthy. Very healthy. Ended up having several major complications and surgery. If I did not have access to a very experienced doctor who saw very early subtle signs of what was going on....I would likely either be dead or on dialysis. Most women who chose abortion do not have the access to high quality insurance that allows them to go to a doctor that has the time to know you. Most women who chose the chose abortion do not have the luxury to stay at home for several months only to leave for MD and tests. I had the social and financial resources to follow the doctors orders. Imagine it being a luxury to follow the doctors orders in this country. Boo. I had the luxury to go tens of thousands of dollars in debt in order to maintain my pregnancy. I was luck to keep my job, although I did lose out on a promotion because of the length of time I was out of work. The promotion would have given me better hours - which would have been nice after the baby came. But that is neither here nor there.

Pregnancy is about current and potential health problems. And they can sneak up on you. Pregnancy is a risk. My pregnancy was considered low risk.
 
You are ignoring what I posted about pregnancy complications that put women’s health at risk.



Even seemingly “ normal “ pregnancies can have complications that are caused by the pregnancy.

Any pregnancy can take a turn at a moments notice and put the woman’s health and even her life at risk, at a point where an abortion once the symptoms are there will be too late to prevent a death of the woman or lifelong major irreparable disability.

That’s why no woman should be forced to take the risk if she wants an early elective abortion it should be her choice not to risk the pregnancy. Some women can sence there is something wrong ahead of time.


Life threatening complications aren't rare.

We never know when a pregnancy might take a turn and become life threatening to someone we love.

And as we have discussed before, we had good resources and insurance and really good access to health care. Our outcomes could have been vastly different if we did were subjected to medicaid and/or county clinics.:(
 
We are not broodmares for the barren. Nobody is entitled to a child.

Straw man.... I never said anybody is a "broodmare". Or entitled. Just that there is a long waiting list for healthy newborns.
 
You are ignoring what I posted about pregnancy complications that put women’s health at risk.



Even seemingly “ normal “ pregnancies can have complications that are caused by the pregnancy.

Any pregnancy can take a turn at a moments notice and put the woman’s health and even her life at risk, at a point where an abortion once the symptoms are there will be too late to prevent a death of the woman or lifelong major irreparable disability.

That’s why no woman should be forced to take the risk if she wants an early elective abortion it should be her choice not to risk the pregnancy. Some women can sence there is something wrong ahead of time.


Life threatening complications aren't rare.

We never know when a pregnancy might take a turn and become life threatening to someone we love.

Everything has risks. But the vast majority of births don't kill the mother or permanently injure her.
 
Straw Man; but good effort. How many of those 400,000 are healthy newborns?

Do you even know what a straw man fallacy is? You obviously don't because I was directly responding to your statement of "THERE ARE NOT 100,000 CHILDREN OUT THERE READY TO BE ADOPTED". Then you wanted to move the goal posts "Well, obviously that number isn't actually NEWBORNS". Doesn't matter. You stated that there are nowhere near 100K children there for adoption.

And even further, I'm REALLY going to spin this around on you - are you saying that the rest of those children don't matter because they're not newborns? If that's not what you're saying, then what ARE you saying about those children? Maybe they should have been aborted since their lives are going to be ****. How would you like to sit in foster care for 18 years, not knowing whether the home you were going to be in was going to be abusive (in any sense of the word) or even further, how you were going to deal with it?

Do you even know what these kids go through in foster care? Do you have any inkling?
 
Straw man.... I never said anybody is a "broodmare". Or entitled. Just that there is a long waiting list for healthy newborns.

That was the insinuation.

Why should a woman put her body thru the trauma of gestation and pregnancy to hand the child over to strangers to raise? Adopted children are less well adjusted and bio mothers have a higher risk of lifelong emotional problems.
 
Yet, you will never endure the risks of pregnancy, will you?

You know, as a dude, I have an opinion on abortion. I get it. We all have opinions, right? But one thing I will NEVER EVER EVER do is tell you what's right for your body. That's not OK. I, as a dude, have zero rights to tell you how to live your life.

If I were to get you pregnant (that'd require me to be able to perform with a woman, but that's beside the point), I might have a request that you keep the baby or even that you keep it but I'll take it and raise it. But even then, even though that baby is partially "mine" (GIANT AIR QUOTES), I STILL don't believe I have very much right to tell you what to do. I would hope I'd have some say, but ultimately, the decision is yours. You're the one that has to carry that baby for 9 months. You're the one that has to take responsibility if I decide later that I don't want to take care of the kid anymore. That's not OK to put that burden on you. Ever.
 
what?....what?...... so now you rationalize killing a baby because the cost of living is on the rise? Or because there is suffering in the world? Your reasoning is scary.
I've not rationalized killing a baby, only the termination of a pregnancy.
 
Do you even know what a straw man fallacy is? You obviously don't because I was directly responding to your statement of "THERE ARE NOT 100,000 CHILDREN OUT THERE READY TO BE ADOPTED". Then you wanted to move the goal posts "Well, obviously that number isn't actually NEWBORNS". Doesn't matter. You stated that there are nowhere near 100K children there for adoption.

And even further, I'm REALLY going to spin this around on you - are you saying that the rest of those children don't matter because they're not newborns? If that's not what you're saying, then what ARE you saying about those children? Maybe they should have been aborted since their lives are going to be ****. How would you like to sit in foster care for 18 years, not knowing whether the home you were going to be in was going to be abusive (in any sense of the word) or even further, how you were going to deal with it?

Do you even know what these kids go through in foster care? Do you have any inkling?

All children matter, even older ones. And yes, foster care can be tragic. But our topic is abortion, which means NEWBORN babies. There are NOT 100,000 healthy NEWBORN babies out there in some kind of hellish foster care; but there are long waits for adoptive parents to get that call. Often years of waiting.
 
Last edited:
Yet, you will never endure the risks of pregnancy, will you?

Are you claiming that if a person doesn't have a direct stake in an issue, they are not entitled to an opinion? Be careful what you wish for......
 
I've not rationalized killing a baby, only the termination of a pregnancy.

You know the difference between a baby and a fetus? One is wanted but the other is not.
 
Back
Top Bottom