When did we become a Democracy? (1 Viewer)

[SavannahMann]

The Republicans have for quite some time now correctly stated that we are not a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic. A Republic is where a Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not the will of the people.

Now of course we have Donald Trump as President. And the Trump folks love to scream that the Courts are not heeding the will of the 77 million people who voted for Trump while declaring his policies and orders as unconstitutional.

Judges order that Immigrants must be given due process. They’re defying the will of 77 million voters. It doesn’t matter what the Constitution says. Trump is the President!

Trump is told he can’t fire people or close departments that are authorized by Congress. Courts are interfering in the Executive Branch and ignoring the will of the voter.

So I ask this of the Trump Defenders. When did we become a Democracy? When did the will of the voter supersede the Constitution?

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

The Republicans have for quite some time now correctly stated that we are not a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic. A Republic is where a Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not the will of the people.

Now of course we have Donald Trump as President. And the Trump folks love to scream that the Courts are not heeding the will of the 77 million people who voted for Trump while declaring his policies and orders as unconstitutional.

Judges order that Immigrants must be given due process. They’re defying the will of 77 million voters. It doesn’t matter what the Constitution says. Trump is the President!

Trump is told he can’t fire people or close departments that are authorized by Congress. Courts are interfering in the Executive Branch and ignoring the will of the voter.

So I ask this of the Trump Defenders. When did we become a Democracy? When did the will of the voter supersede the Constitution?

Isn't every democracy on the planet a "Representative Republic"? It's a distinction that means nothing.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

The Republicans have for quite some time now correctly stated that we are not a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic. A Republic is where a Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not the will of the people.

Now of course we have Donald Trump as President. And the Trump folks love to scream that the Courts are not heeding the will of the 77 million people who voted for Trump while declaring his policies and orders as unconstitutional.

Judges order that Immigrants must be given due process. They’re defying the will of 77 million voters. It doesn’t matter what the Constitution says. Trump is the President!

Trump is told he can’t fire people or close departments that are authorized by Congress. Courts are interfering in the Executive Branch and ignoring the will of the voter.

So I ask this of the Trump Defenders. When did we become a Democracy? When did the will of the voter supersede the Constitution?

Trump's irony will come in about 6 months. Probably sooner since Trump is an idiot who never understood real power. Oh, and Trump's defenders are idiots, too. MAGA in the end will take out MAGA. I just hope there is something left to pick up the pieces.

 

[aociswundumho]

we are a Representative Republic.

Which is a type of democracy.

 

[Grand Mal]

Isn't every democracy on the planet a "Representative Republic"? It's a distinction that means nothing.

No. Republic means no monarchy. Constitutional monarchies like Canada, with Parliaments, are representative democracies.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

No. Republic means no monarchy. Constitutional monarchies like Canada, with Parliaments, are representative democracies.

I still consider that a distinction that means nothing.

Canada is a much healthier democracy than the U.S. right now.

 

[MamboDervish]

When did we become a Democracy?​

The first time we voted.

 

[multivita-man]

Isn't every democracy on the planet a "Representative Republic"? It's a distinction that means nothing.

This ^

We're a republic with representatives selected democratically. Stated differently, we're a democratic republic. Or at least we have been.

 

[TypicalRussian]

17th Amendment I say completed the process from traditional Republic ---> Mass democracy

 

[Deuce]

The Republicans have for quite some time now correctly stated that we are not a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic. A Republic is where a Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not the will of the people.

Now of course we have Donald Trump as President. And the Trump folks love to scream that the Courts are not heeding the will of the 77 million people who voted for Trump while declaring his policies and orders as unconstitutional.

Judges order that Immigrants must be given due process. They’re defying the will of 77 million voters. It doesn’t matter what the Constitution says. Trump is the President!

Trump is told he can’t fire people or close departments that are authorized by Congress. Courts are interfering in the Executive Branch and ignoring the will of the voter.

So I ask this of the Trump Defenders. When did we become a Democracy? When did the will of the voter supersede the Constitution?

A republic is a subset of democracy, this is a stupid semantics debate and there's no point in engaging in it on their terms. Trumpers lie about everything, including their own beliefs. Hell, especially their own beliefs.

 

[Loulit01]

I think we should look at the Democratic Republic of the Congo since it covers all bases. That's where we'll find out answers.

 

[SavannahMann]

Isn't every democracy on the planet a "Representative Republic"? It's a distinction that means nothing.

A Republic has hard rules that the Government shall not violate. Such as our Second Amendment. A Democracy as described by Trump and his followers where the will of the people is all that matters, is not a Republic.

We are told that the Courts are thwarting the will of the people. But the Courts are upholding the Constitution. Trump is reportedly considering getting rid of Habeas Corpus because the 77 million people who voted for him want him to deport people without Due Process. A clear constitutional violation.

So I am wondering when Republicans began to believe in unfettered democracy over the Constitutional Republic?

 

[Gozaburo]

17th Amendment I say completed the process from traditional Republic ---> Mass democracy

If by 'traditional' you mean classical in the Greek sense, then this is more or less the case, which is to say nothing about how effective that democracy actually is at conferring 'voting rights' upon the citizenry in any way that isn't banal kabuki theater.

 

[TypicalRussian]

If by 'traditional' you mean classical in the Greek sense, then this is more or less the case, which is to say nothing about how effective that democracy actually is at conferring 'voting rights' upon the citizenry in any way that isn't banal kabuki theater.

Even in the old english sense too with the House of Lords being hereditary

 

[j brown's body]

Every law that is passed is passed is subject to a vote by the people through their elected representatives.

What is confusing about this?

 

[OrphanSlug]

We going to try again for the umpteenth time to split this hair?

 

[SavannahMann]

Every law that is passed is passed is subject to a vote by the people through their elected representatives.

What is confusing about this?

I’m trying to understand how the Republican Administration can claim the will of the voters overrules the Constitution.

 

[Questerr]

The Republicans have for quite some time now correctly stated that we are not a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic. A Republic is where a Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not the will of the people.

Now of course we have Donald Trump as President. And the Trump folks love to scream that the Courts are not heeding the will of the 77 million people who voted for Trump while declaring his policies and orders as unconstitutional.

Judges order that Immigrants must be given due process. They’re defying the will of 77 million voters. It doesn’t matter what the Constitution says. Trump is the President!

Trump is told he can’t fire people or close departments that are authorized by Congress. Courts are interfering in the Executive Branch and ignoring the will of the voter.

So I ask this of the Trump Defenders. When did we become a Democracy? When did the will of the voter supersede the Constitution?

Not a Trump supporter, but the US became a democracy in 1920 with the ratification of the 19th Amendment. The fact that we have a constitution doesn’t matter. Democracies and constitutions are not mutually exclusive.

 

[RIP U.S. Democracy]

A Republic has hard rules that the Government shall not violate. Such as our Second Amendment. A Democracy as described by Trump and his followers where the will of the people is all that matters, is not a Republic.

Trump and his MAGA followers do not care about the "will of the people". Where did you ever get that foolish idea?

The vast majority of Americans want tougher gun laws.....why isn't Trump doing something about that?

The vast majority of Americans want the rich to pay higher taxes...why isn't Trump doing something about that?

The vast majority of Americans believe in a woman's right to choose....why isn't Trump doing something about that?

The majority of Americans want universal health care...why isn't Trump doing something about that?

We are told that the Courts are thwarting the will of the people. But the Courts are upholding the Constitution. Trump is reportedly considering getting rid of Habeas Corpus because the 77 million people who voted for him want him to deport people without Due Process. A clear constitutional violation.

So I am wondering when Republicans began to believe in unfettered democracy over the Constitutional Republic?

Except they don't....as I just explained.

 

[aociswundumho]

A Republic has hard rules that the Government shall not violate. Such as our Second Amendment.

But it does violate the 2nd amendment - egregiously.

A Democracy as described by Trump and his followers where the will of the people is all that matters, is not a Republic.

We are told that the Courts are thwarting the will of the people. But the Courts are upholding the Constitution. Trump is reportedly considering getting rid of Habeas Corpus because the 77 million people who voted for him want him to deport people without Due Process. A clear constitutional violation.

So I am wondering when Republicans began to believe in unfettered democracy over the Constitutional Republic?

The problem is the constitution has no enforcement mechanism.

 

[coyote505]

A Republic has hard rules that the Government shall not violate. Such as our Second Amendment. A Democracy as described by Trump and his followers where the will of the people is all that matters, is not a Republic.

We are told that the Courts are thwarting the will of the people. But the Courts are upholding the Constitution. Trump is reportedly considering getting rid of Habeas Corpus because the 77 million people who voted for him want him to deport people without Due Process. A clear constitutional violation.

So I am wondering when Republicans began to believe in unfettered democracy over the Constitutional Republic?

When Peckerwoods seized the levers of power in the party.

 

[btthegreat]

The Republicans have for quite some time now correctly stated that we are not a Democracy, we are a Representative Republic. A Republic is where a Constitution is the supreme law of the land, not the will of the people.

Now of course we have Donald Trump as President. And the Trump folks love to scream that the Courts are not heeding the will of the 77 million people who voted for Trump while declaring his policies and orders as unconstitutional.

Judges order that Immigrants must be given due process. They’re defying the will of 77 million voters. It doesn’t matter what the Constitution says. Trump is the President!

Trump is told he can’t fire people or close departments that are authorized by Congress. Courts are interfering in the Executive Branch and ignoring the will of the voter.

So I ask this of the Trump Defenders. When did we become a Democracy? When did the will of the voter supersede the Constitution?

This is not my understanding of the definition. I will quote Madison "[W]e may define a republic to be, or at least may bestow that name on, a government which derives all its powers directly or indirectly from the great body of the people, and is administered by persons holding their offices during pleasure, for a limited period, or during good behavior. It is ESSENTIAL to such a government that it be derived from the great body of the society, not from an inconsiderable proportion, or a favored class of it; . . . It is SUFFICIENT for such a government that the persons administering it be appointed, either directly or indirectly, by the people; and that they hold their appointments by either of the tenures just specified[.]3

https://www.law.cornell.edu/constit...-4/meaning-of-a-republican-form-of-government

The constitution is a tool that defines govt roles, and power, as well those of the people, in an effort to balance duties and authority but it is not what defines 'Republic'.

We have a constitutional representative democratic republic because the elements of all four exist, either in the federal govt structure or the 50 quasi- independent state govts under the 10th amendment.

There is direct democracy or indirect democracy that employs representation. Americans enjoy examples of both, but the direct examples are reserved for states, counties and municipalities in every referendum or initiative that shows up on our ballots.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

Which is a type of democracy.

That is mostly true in practice.

Theoretically, it would still be a Representative Republic if representatives won their seats through victory in single combat instead of being elected democratically, but that isn’t so fashionable these days.

 

[Sweden]

A Republic has hard rules that the Government shall not violate. Such as our Second Amendment. A Democracy as described by Trump and his followers where the will of the people is all that matters, is not a Republic.

We are told that the Courts are thwarting the will of the people. But the Courts are upholding the Constitution. Trump is reportedly considering getting rid of Habeas Corpus because the 77 million people who voted for him want him to deport people without Due Process. A clear constitutional violation.

So I am wondering when Republicans began to believe in unfettered democracy over the Constitutional Republic?

If constitutions can be changed by democratic process - as in the USA - then 'the rules' are not hard but subject to revision.

 

[Questerr]

But it does violate the 2nd amendment - egregiously.



The problem is the constitution has no enforcement mechanism.

In AnCapistan; anything short of allowing civilians to own nuclear weapons would violate the 2nd Amendment.