What's with America's problem with socialised healthcare?

[AGENT J]

capitalist health care with 80% lower prices is not here because liberals lack IQ to understand capitalism. If you ask them why West Germany did so much better than East Germany they cant say.

dont know what country you are from but the us already has capitalist healthcare.

 

[James972]

dont know what country you are from but the us already has capitalist healthcare.

actually Medicare Medcaid, VA Schip TRIcare, IMS, Community Clinics, intra state competition are far from Republican capitalism. Liberals lack the IQ to understand Republican capitalism so we don't have it and pay 5 times what we should. you have learned this 5 times. Should we go for 6?

 

[jaeger19]

there is no health care problem other than that we have a socialist system which has no incentives to reduce price and increase quality. Ask yourself how long it would take to built a house and how much it would cost if there was no incentive to do it quickly and cheaply.

James.. your comment has no relevance to the discussion I had.

 

[AGENT J]

actually Medicare Medcaid, VA Schip TRIcare, IMS, Community Clinics, intra state competition are far from Republican capitalism. Liberals lack the IQ to understand Republican capitalism so we don't have it and pay 5 times what we should.

yet the fact remains the healthcare in my country is capitalist and thats what the OP is talking about lol :shrug:

 

[James972]

James.. your comment has no relevance to the discussion I had.

the problem with socialized health care is that socialism is inefficient and makes things 5 times more expensive. In America that means $8000 a year for every man women and child. Enough to end poverty or pay off national debt.

 

[jaeger19]

Maybe thats how it works in whatever you do but where my sister works its the same as the school. She works directly in insurance. More and more people to do the same job half the people used to do and some of the jobs are easier than they were and also newly created positions that didn't. So im not wrong at all.

Seems like you are talking provider end and that doesnt surprise me since I was talking admin. and insurance which would hinder the provider end. Insurance needs more and more of its money and theres less for you.

Yep.. thought you were talking providers.. ie. HEALTHCARE.

You are talking healthcare insurance. And yes.. they are not only bloated.. but their bloat actually ends up hurting patient care and decreases efficiency with providers.

I spend more time on paperwork, have more staff on paperwork than I ever did before.. and its useless paperwork.

Often to get authorization that is absolutely brainless and meaningless.

 

[James972]

yet the fact remains the healthcare in my country is capitalist and thats what the OP is talking about lol :shrug:

what country???

 

[AGENT J]

what country???

My country the USA. Guess you didnt read the op or its thread title lol

 

[AGENT J]

Yep.. thought you were talking providers.. ie. HEALTHCARE.

You are talking healthcare insurance. And yes.. they are not only bloated.. but their bloat actually ends up hurting patient care and decreases efficiency with providers.

I spend more time on paperwork, have more staff on paperwork than I ever did before.. and its useless paperwork.
Often to get authorization that is absolutely brainless and meaningless.

sorry bout that just a miscommunication, it happens

AMEN!

its horrific. and they know exactly what they are doing!

before ACA, two different times i had to fill out forms, get physicals and jump through hoops to get my asthma meds covered because it was deemed a preexisting condition?!

well no ****, i was born with it!!! :lamo

so much BS the insurance companies try and get away with.

 

[jaeger19]

the problem with socialized health care is that socialism is inefficient and makes things 5 times more expensive. In America that means $8000 a year for every man women and child. Enough to end poverty or pay off national debt.

Actually socialized medicine tends to be more efficient and makes things generally cheaper.

The trade off is that in doing so.. we will lose some quality, lose freedom of choice, lose equality of care, and lose timeliness of care. Not to mention.. likely hurt our economy badly.

 

[jaeger19]

sorry bout that just a miscommunication, it happens

AMEN!

its horrific. and they know exactly what they are doing!

before ACA, two different times i had to fill out forms, get physicals and jump through hoops to get my asthma meds covered because it was deemed a preexisting condition?!

well no ****, i was born with it!!! :lamo

so much BS the insurance companies try and get away with.

And here it the irony.. a lot of times.. those hoops ACTUALLY increase the cost to the insurance companies.

for example.. you have hoops to jump through to get your asthma meds covered.. and in doing that.. perhaps you go without your meds for a while... and so you have an asthma attack that sends you into the hospital ER, and possibly admitted and poof.. not only do the insurance company lose any savings by not having you have your medicine for a month or so... but now they have to pay more.. because the cost of the hospitalization is much more expensive than your meds.

 

[AGENT J]

And here it the irony.. a lot of times.. those hoops ACTUALLY increase the cost to the insurance companies.

for example.. you have hoops to jump through to get your asthma meds covered.. and in doing that.. perhaps you go without your meds for a while... and so you have an asthma attack that sends you into the hospital ER, and possibly admitted and poof.. not only do the insurance company lose any savings by not having you have your medicine for a month or so... but now they have to pay more.. because the cost of the hospitalization is much more expensive than your meds.

I agree it makes no sense to me. Luckily that did not happen but you are right, the risk doesn't seem like its worth the award...

I cant tell you how hot I was over it too because of how nonsensical it is. I mean what would be my options according to those companies? Get ONE job after i graduate and keep it forever otherwise my asthma would be pre-existing, its asinine!

 

[jaeger19]

I agree it makes no sense to me. Luckily that did not happen but you are right, the risk doesn't seem like its worth the award...

I cant tell you how hot I was over it too because of how nonsensical it is. I mean what would be my options according to those companies? Get ONE job after i graduate and keep it forever otherwise my asthma would be pre-existing, its asinine!

Right.. its why we need to 1. keep getting rid of pre existing conditions

2. Separate healthcare insurance from employment.


Now.. I will say.. just before someone like rapidalpaca jumps in and states.."but but Canadian healthcare".. Canadian government insurance would not cover your medications. You would still have to get a private plan or get medication coverage through your employer (what they do in Canada).

 

[AGENT J]

Right.. its why we need to 1. keep getting rid of pre existing conditions

2. Separate healthcare insurance from employment.


Now.. I will say.. just before someone like rapidalpaca jumps in and states.."but but Canadian healthcare".. Canadian government insurance would not cover your medications. You would still have to get a private plan or get medication coverage through your employer (what they do in Canada).

I agree on BOTH and the second would be a dream come true. It would be awesome if I see that in my life time but im not hopeful on it.

As for the Canada healthcare im not familiar but a hybrid system wouldnt bother me at all. Id be find with the government doing the basics and other care being extra still through work or private insurance. But my kid breaking her leg at a softball game shouldn't bankrupt me or anybody.

Also whats the checks and balances for meds in canada? when i did pricing on combivent like 10 years ago it was 300-400$ for a months supply. Its stuff like that, which is insane. Thats another area things need watched.

 

[PIPEWRENCH]

Yeah.. not really.. its a marketing gimmick to make you think you are getting a better deal than you actually are. Kind of like when a womans clothing store jacks up the price and then announces a sale.



again.. BS.. to make you think the price the company was paying was based on their behavior and not on what the insurance company felt the market would bear.

.

yeah..that only sets the base.. the actual amount you pay is based on what the market will bear.

Sorry but I think I will believe the friends and family members I have in the insurance business since they did the same thing to lower their premiums as well. They claim they have a profit margin that is set by share holders and the cost of premiums is calculated by the risk. That is why they offer cheaper insurance to younger people. If there was only 1 insurance company what you say may be true. But I have gotten quotes from lots of different insurance companies when I was in management and every one of them went and assessed risk to determine what it would cost to get insurance. This held true with life insurance, car insurance, homeowner insurance. I did lots of upgrades to my house to lower my homeowners insurance. Sorry but those are the facts.

 

[James972]

Also whats the checks and balances for meds in canada? when i did pricing on combivent like 10 years ago it was 300-400$ for a months supply. Its stuff like that, which is insane. Thats another area things need watched.

totally naive!!! soviet bureaucrats are watching everything every day that's why there is so much trouble. Capitalism would have 330 million customer regulators shopping every day always driving price down to the bare minimum. Is this really over your head?

 

[AGENT J]

totally naive!!! soviet bureaucrats are watching everything every day that's why there is so much trouble. Capitalism would have 330 million customer regulators shopping every day always driving price down to the bare minimum. Is this really over your head?

LOL fact remains Americas healthcare system is capitalist. your "feelings" are meaningless to that fact. :shrug:

 

[James972]

LOL fact remains Americas healthcare system is capitalist. your "feelings" are meaningless to that fact. :shrug:

Actually, Medicare is not capitalist. Payments come from govt not from customers who have carefully shopped among competitors. Truely hard to imagine the liberal doesn't know that.

 

[jaeger19]

I agree on BOTH and the second would be a dream come true. It would be awesome if I see that in my life time but im not hopeful on it.

As for the Canada healthcare im not familiar but a hybrid system wouldnt bother me at all. Id be find with the government doing the basics and other care being extra still through work or private insurance. But my kid breaking her leg at a softball game shouldn't bankrupt me or anybody.

Also whats the checks and balances for meds in canada? when i did pricing on combivent like 10 years ago it was 300-400$ for a months supply. Its stuff like that, which is insane. Thats another area things need watched.

Well.. your kid breaking a leg won't bankrupt you here or likely Canada of you have insurance.... the bankruptcy because of medical bills is a myth,...

Canada has a price review board that controls prices and prevents whats considered excessive prices.

 

[James972]

.

Canada has a price review board that controls prices and prevents whats considered excessive prices.

so do our insurance companies and Medicare, Medicaid, VA but its hardly like customers shopping every day among competitors for the lowest price . That's the only way possible to know what the lowest possible price is. Simple, but way over a liberals head I"m afraid.

 

[AGENT J]

Actually, Medicare is not capitalist. Payments come from govt not from customers who have carefully shopped among competitors. Truely hard to imagine the liberal doesn't know that.

Actually i never mentioned medicaid nor did the OP.
act remains Americas healthcare system is capitalist. your "feelings" are meaningless to that fact. :shrug:

 

[AGENT J]

Well.. your kid breaking a leg won't bankrupt you here or likely Canada of you have insurance.... the bankruptcy because of medical bills is a myth,...

Canada has a price review board that controls prices and prevents whats considered excessive prices.

"IF" you have insurance and its decent insurance I agree but my kid did have medical problems for a while and it was not even close to cheap. Luckily im probably upper middle case and i made due but if i wasnt it would not have worked out well at all. And I disagree with calling it a myth, i know people that if they had the bills i had, STILL have it would have buried them. Regardless even what I went through shouldn't happen, her issue was special or uncommon.

as for the canada thing I looked at two sites, NO CLUE if they are accurate, but my same meds that would cost me 300-400 a month here would cost me 39-72 dollars up there, american dollars. Wow . . . .

 

[jaeger19]

Sorry but I think I will believe the friends and family members I have in the insurance business since they did the same thing to lower their premiums as well. They claim they have a profit margin that is set by share holders and the cost of premiums is calculated by the risk. .

And they are full of crap.

They have a profit margin thats set by as much margin as they can get. .. and they will charge as much as they can to get to that profit margin. thats what EVERY company does.

They offer cheaper insurance to younger people because younger people cannot afford or will not afford higher prices... in other words.. younger people have lower demand for health insurance.

Women pay more because they value healthcare more. And so on.

Its called supply and DEMAND that sets the price.

now.. Perhaps you don't think that supply and demand and basic business principles apply to health insurance. Perhaps you would like to believe that prices are set by costs and not by demand.

Actually.. most people like to believe that. It helps them pay more for healthcare and all sorts of insurance if they think they are getting a deal because of their behavior. In reality.. they aren't. but it sure sells insurance. THAT is the facts.

 

[James972]

act remains Americas healthcare system is capitalist. your "feelings" are meaningless to that fact. :shrug:

actually Medicare Medcaid, VA Schip TRIcare, IMS, Community Clinics, intra state competition are far from Republican capitalism. Liberals lack the IQ to understand Republican capitalism so we don't have it and pay 5 times what we should.

 

[AGENT J]

actually Medicare Medcaid, VA Schip TRIcare, IMS, Community Clinics, intra state competition are far from Republican capitalism. Liberals lack the IQ to understand Republican capitalism so we don't have it and pay 5 times what we should.

LMAO still trying and failing this huh?
Fact remains Americas healthcare system is capitalist. your "feelings" are meaningless to that fact. :shrug: