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What's the point of so many special forces groups in the US?

Gray_Fox_86

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I was just curious whats the point of having so many groups with similar training and similar goals when they go out for missions. GB's are like Delta Boys and Delta boys are like Devgru and Devgru is similar to the SEALs and Rangers like Force Recon just like to blow everything up. What's the point of having so many special forces?
It's just one huge bureaucracy, and I thought military people hate bureaucracies. Oh, and then there is the Pjs and Nightstalkers. Seriously folks? Oh, and then there's SAD.
 
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While I appreciate both of your candid commentary, the reason there are so many different types of Special Operations Forces (SOF) is because each has a particular set of skills and specialty missions that they are experts in. While it is true that many SOF are cross-trained and capable of doing similiar missions, it wouldn't be wise to have only one SOF force. For one example, Army Special Forces are experts in training Host Nation Forces and standing up militias. That's not what Delta Force does, nor anyone else as well as SF.

Additionally, the military must open all lanes in all services to find the most highly-qualified and skilled individuals in each branch.

We do, however, have one paramilitary force at the government level that is an amalgam of SOF: CIA Clandestine services.

Take time to study each particular type of SOF and what their capabilities are:

SOCOM

Click on each Branch's SOC link to learn more.
 
The short answer as to why there are so many is because there are a lot of different types of missions, and because special forces are not something you want to have not enough of.
 
I was just curious whats the point of having so many groups with similar training and similar goals when they go out for missions. GB's are like Delta Boys and Delta boys are like Devgru and Devgru is similar to the SEALs and Rangers like Force Recon just like to blow everything up. What's the point of having so many special forces?

There are different forces, because each one has a very distinct specialty. And to an outsider that does not understand the differences, they probably all "look the same". But just like a Mustang is different from a Cadillac, which is different from a Citroen, which is different from a Fiat, which is different from a Hummer, (they all have an internal combustion engine, 4 wheels, and drive down roads) each Special Operations group is very different.

Green Berets actually specialize in training and operating with indiginous forces. Their main task is acutally as a "Force Multiplier", training and advising local forces. In this way, a small group can advise a much larger group, so for the investment of a Company worth of US troops, you get the effective might of a Division.

Rangers are the Army's "Shock Troops". Their specialty is taking difficult locations, with little support and holding it. They operate with organic support, and normally in advance of a much larger unit (division size or larger).

Seals are a multi-function Naval SOC. Their original purpose was and is to operate as part of "Underwater Demolitions", either destroying enemy vessels and port and support facilities, or guarding against such actions against our own forces. They also operate as a reconnaissance force, checking for obsticals and mines, tides, water depth, and forces inland of proposed landing beaches. They also scout for ports and other facilities that may be needed.

Force Recon fulfills a combination of Ranger and Seal tasks, but for the Marine Corps. They will either work in advance of a larger unit operating as a rreconnaissance unit, or they will open up avenues of approach for a Division sized force or smaller. While capable of fighting, their job is perfectly performed if they do their job without ever being detected.

And all Marine Infantry units are considered to be "Special Operations Capable". This is because they are all highly cross-trained in many forms of what is considered to be "Special Operations" functions. These include amphibious assaults, jungle warfare, mountain warfare, desert warfare, arctic warfare, helicopter assault, and operating in small numbers (frequently Company sized). And in 2005, 2 "MARSOC Battalions" were formed, that fulfill many tasks similar to the Green Berets, but specializing in training other Marine or "Naval Infantry" units.

And you also have several Air Force SOC units that are very specialized. Pararescue is dedicated to the rescue and recovery of downed pilots and crew. Combat Control Teams work as pathfinders, dropping behind enemy lines and setting up either advance air bases before any other forces arrive, or guiding in aircraft for bombing and strike missions.

Each of these groups however though is highly specialized. Green Berets are not trained to perform the duty of Pararescue or Combat Control Teams. And Rangers are not trained to do the job of SEALS. Force Recon is not trained to operate in the way that Green Berets are.
 
There are different forces, because each one has a very distinct specialty. And to an outsider that does not understand the differences, they probably all "look the same". But just like a Mustang is different from a Cadillac, which is different from a Citroen, which is different from a Fiat, which is different from a Hummer, (they all have an internal combustion engine, 4 wheels, and drive down roads) each Special Operations group is very different.

Green Berets actually specialize in training and operating with indiginous forces. Their main task is acutally as a "Force Multiplier", training and advising local forces. In this way, a small group can advise a much larger group, so for the investment of a Company worth of US troops, you get the effective might of a Division.

Rangers are the Army's "Shock Troops". Their specialty is taking difficult locations, with little support and holding it. They operate with organic support, and normally in advance of a much larger unit (division size or larger).

Seals are a multi-function Naval SOC. Their original purpose was and is to operate as part of "Underwater Demolitions", either destroying enemy vessels and port and support facilities, or guarding against such actions against our own forces. They also operate as a reconnaissance force, checking for obsticals and mines, tides, water depth, and forces inland of proposed landing beaches. They also scout for ports and other facilities that may be needed.

Force Recon fulfills a combination of Ranger and Seal tasks, but for the Marine Corps. They will either work in advance of a larger unit operating as a rreconnaissance unit, or they will open up avenues of approach for a Division sized force or smaller. While capable of fighting, their job is perfectly performed if they do their job without ever being detected.

And all Marine Infantry units are considered to be "Special Operations Capable". This is because they are all highly cross-trained in many forms of what is considered to be "Special Operations" functions. These include amphibious assaults, jungle warfare, mountain warfare, desert warfare, arctic warfare, helicopter assault, and operating in small numbers (frequently Company sized). And in 2005, 2 "MARSOC Battalions" were formed, that fulfill many tasks similar to the Green Berets, but specializing in training other Marine or "Naval Infantry" units.

And you also have several Air Force SOC units that are very specialized. Pararescue is dedicated to the rescue and recovery of downed pilots and crew. Combat Control Teams work as pathfinders, dropping behind enemy lines and setting up either advance air bases before any other forces arrive, or guiding in aircraft for bombing and strike missions.

Each of these groups however though is highly specialized. Green Berets are not trained to perform the duty of Pararescue or Combat Control Teams. And Rangers are not trained to do the job of SEALS. Force Recon is not trained to operate in the way that Green Berets are.

Ok, but what does DELTA or DEVGRU do? They are very similar to the Green Berets and SEALs. Do you think the GB's are not capable of killing enemy special forces? And DEVGRU come on!
 
Ok, but what does DELTA or DEVGRU do? They are very similar to the Green Berets and SEALs. Do you think the GB's are not capable of killing enemy special forces? And DEVGRU come on!

Delta has a very distinct direct-action mission. They are not SF.

Some SF guys end up going to Delta, but the organizations don't have the same mission.

Primary SF mission is to train HNF; although they are capable of DA, but not to the same proficiency level as Delta.
 
Every service branch needs its own special units for propaganda and recruiting purposes. While there is a certain level of specialization among units, there is quite a bit of redundancy as well. SOCOM basically exists to try and mitigate the organizational mess.
 
Ok, but what does DELTA or DEVGRU do? They are very similar to the Green Berets and SEALs. Do you think the GB's are not capable of killing enemy special forces? And DEVGRU come on!

Delta is an Army Anti-terrorist force. It specializes in hostage situations, and urban combat. Once again, very different then SF or any others.

DEVGRU is Seal Team Six. Basically, they are the Naval version of Delta, but specialize in protecting Naval assets from terrorist attacks.

And I have worked with Seal Team Six. And while I do not know how they operate today, they were pretty much a joke when they were formed.
 
We like having lots of different forces. It's cool. :mrgreen:
 
We like having lots of different forces. It's cool. :mrgreen:

and expensive.
Delta is an Army Anti-terrorist force. It specializes in hostage situations, and urban combat. Once again, very different then SF or any others.

DEVGRU is Seal Team Six. Basically, they are the Naval version of Delta, but specialize in protecting Naval assets from terrorist attacks.

And I have worked with Seal Team Six. And while I do not know how they operate today, they were pretty much a joke when they were formed
So, DEVGRU sucked back then. But that can't be right. I have heard that they were great back when Marcinko(?) was in charge.
Delta is also a first response unit? Which means that if someone needs to wipe-out ICBMs they would be the ones who'd do it. Right? Do you or have you ever heard of anything about Delta that can be reported now?
 
and expensive.
So, DEVGRU sucked back then. But that can't be right. I have heard that they were great back when Marcinko(?) was in charge.
Delta is also a first response unit? Which means that if someone needs to wipe-out ICBMs they would be the ones who'd do it. Right? Do you or have you ever heard of anything about Delta that can be reported now?

Yes and No Delta can be a 1st response it depends on the mission, Their actual name is 1st-SFOD-D and they have 3 Squadrons A which is based on the East Coast at Bragg B which is based at SEAL Team Pearl Harbor and C which is TDY oversea's.

With-in each Squad you will find the following Platoon's Funny Platoons (1st in Intel and S&D unit) Aviation which also is part of the 160th SOAR they use three main Helicopters AH-6/MH-6 Little Bird MH-47G Spookhock and MH-60K/L DAPs.

Also with-in each Squadron they are broken down to certain type's of cross training units Airborne, Maritime, Land and Mountain troop. Most of these units are 14 Man Teams that can be broken down to four man teams if needed.
 
Every service branch needs its own special units for propaganda and recruiting purposes.

This is just retarded.

Are there soldiers on naval ships? Are there Marines positioned on forward Air Force bases? Are there Marines traditionally attached to Army occupation forces? Do Air Force personnel usually hang out on naval vessels or forward areas?

Because each branch has its own unique mission, it must also have its own specialized organizations to deal with the extraordinary situations that arise. Marine Expeditionary Forces are the "911 force" of America and consist of Special Operations Capable units with Marine Recon and Navy Seals on board naval vessels. If the president decides that something needs to happen within 12 hours any where in the world, he does not have time to wait for Delta Force or the Green Beret to fly across the ocean. He has the MEUSOCs floating stategically and ready. In an occupation mission, which is historically an Army gig, they must have their special forces handy rather than waiting for Marine Recon or Navy Seals to show up. Air Force bases that need protection must rely upon internal specially trained personel and cannot take from the ground forces in the Army or Marine Corps who have more immediate enemy threats to contend with.

"Propaganda and recruiting tools?" Seriously?
 
Delta is also a first response unit? Which means that if someone needs to wipe-out ICBMs they would be the ones who'd do it. Right?

It depends on where in the world the problem is. Who can get there faster. And what the mission entails. And how high the global focus is. And who's country it is.

All of these things matter and all of it will depict what tool is best to use. For this reason, we have many tools to choose from.
 
Ok, but what does DELTA or DEVGRU do? They are very similar to the Green Berets and SEALs. Do you think the GB's are not capable of killing enemy special forces? And DEVGRU come on!

There are no Green Berets deployed on forward naval vessels and they are far from being like SEALs. They are Army. The Green Beret specialize in larger special missions and directly support regular Army units. Seals and Marine Recon specialize in smaller unit missions and can support an array of select missions that are not necessarily in support of military needs. Are you really looking for an answer or just being difficult because this stuff is basic. It's like asking why there is an Army and a Marine Corps. Or an Air Force and a Navy.
 
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There are no Green Berets deployed on forward naval vessels and they are far from being like SEALs. They are Army. The Green Beret specialize in larger special missions and directly support regular Army units. Seals and Marine Recon specialize in smaller unit missions and can support an array of select missions that are not necessarily in support of military needs. Are you really looking for an answer or just being difficult because this stuff is basic. It's like asking why there is an Army and a Marine Corps. Or an Air Force and a Navy.

Maybe just being difficult. Now let's say that you have a pack of werewolves terrorizing rural America, who would be responsible for destroying them??
 
Maybe just being difficult. Now let's say that you have a pack of werewolves terrorizing rural America, who would be responsible for destroying them??

Maybe a Forest Ranger. Or Van Helsing.

Our nation's defense works on a time scale. Larger organizations need time to stand-up, which means that other smaller organizations must be able to react in an instant. This is why we have floating continmgency forces all over the world with Sailors and Marines. By the time we have delivered devistating blows to an enemy of any kind, the much larger and self sufficient Army has amassed enough material and organization to muster in force. The same is true for anti-terrorism in America.

F.A.S.T. Company in the Marine Corps is an anti-terrorist organization tasked with force protection on Naval shipyards, naval vessels, and bases with a special capability to serve immediate needs in Washington (from Norfolk), which provides time for larger organizations to activate. Law enforcement cannot interdict sky-jacked airplanes. Detectives and uniformed cops would have a hard time stopping a wave of absolutely crippling and never ending suicide bombers in our cities (a tool not yet realized by our enemy, by the way).

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marine_Corps_Security_Force_Regiment]Marine Corps Security Force Regiment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]



But ultimately anti-terrorism on our soil falls within the realm of the FBI. The military actually has no jurisdiction upon our soil. Neither does the CIA. In 1993, the WTC was attacked and president Clinton treated it as a mere criminal act. Because of our laws, the CIA was unable to share information with the FBI. President Bush changed this law after 2001 and now they can both collaborate information to better secure our nation from threats abroad. But the military anti-terrorist organizations serves more to protect military installations and American interests abroad than it is about "investigating" in America. Our job is to prevent and stop before it crosses the Atlantic. The rest of up to civilians. Ironic how people still can't fathom the historical truth that our security has always relied upon the health of foriegn nations and regions.
 
Maybe a Forest Ranger. Or Van Helsing.
Or me.
But ultimately anti-terrorism on our soil falls within the realm of the FBI. The military actually has no jurisdiction upon our soil. Neither does the CIA. In 1993, the WTC was attacked and president Clinton treated it as a mere criminal act. Because of our laws, the CIA was unable to share information with the FBI. President Bush changed this law after 2001 and now they can both collaborate information to better secure our nation from threats abroad. But the military anti-terrorist organizations serves more to protect military installations and American interests abroad than it is about "investigating" in America. Our job is to prevent and stop before it crosses the Atlantic. The rest of up to civilians. Ironic how people still can't fathom the historical truth that our security has always relied upon the health of foriegn nations and regions.

And that would be why the FBI has HRT. They are our best defense against terrorists here aside from the military.
So I am guessing you work for JSOC....or something in the pentagon? But you said that the military anti-terrorist organizations serve to protect military installations, would that include those in the US? So then the military does have some juridiction here. What type of secret stuff happens here?
 
So I am guessing you work for JSOC....or something in the pentagon?

No. I used to be stationed at MARFORCOM (formerly known as MARFORLANT) in Norfolk. I used to maintain the Intel systems between the Pentagon, NATO HQ, and forward deployed units. F.A.S.T. Company was down the street. Currently I'm a Communications Chief Instructor out at 29 Palms and I teach Comm Chiefs about communications in a joint environment.

But you said that the military anti-terrorist organizations serve to protect military installations, would that include those in the US? So then the military does have some jurisdiction here.

Well government facilities fall under the jurisdiction of the government for the most part. They maintain military police. What I meant was that our military can't just place our cities under martial law or chase bad guys through the streets of New York. We have no jurisdiction in that regard and this is why it was so hard to activate the active military (not the National Guard) during Katrina. Primarily Marine anti-terrorist organizations protect high value bases like the Norfolk Naval Shipyard or the Naval shipyard in San Diego where things like nuclear submarines are parked. Aside from these type bases and a few civilian Defense structures around the country our anti-terrorist organizations are deployed forward in various situations and attached to their assigned units.

In addition to its primary duties, the Marine Corps has missions in direct support of the White House and the State Department. Even the President has a constant military escort for any occasion that may emerge. The White House is saturated with uniformed and non-uniformed Marines.

This is all public knowledge by the way...
[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Marine_Corps]United States Marine Corps - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]

What type of secret stuff happens here?

It's not as Hollywood as you think. Individuals have certain clearances and this determines how far you get to go in the secret squirrel cave. But a Top Secret clearance in one area will not necessarily get you free access to another Top Secret area.
 
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This is just retarded.

Are there soldiers on naval ships? Are there Marines positioned on forward Air Force bases? Are there Marines traditionally attached to Army occupation forces? Do Air Force personnel usually hang out on naval vessels or forward areas?

Because each branch has its own unique mission, it must also have its own specialized organizations to deal with the extraordinary situations that arise. Marine Expeditionary Forces are the "911 force" of America and consist of Special Operations Capable units with Marine Recon and Navy Seals on board naval vessels. If the president decides that something needs to happen within 12 hours any where in the world, he does not have time to wait for Delta Force or the Green Beret to fly across the ocean. He has the MEUSOCs floating stategically and ready. In an occupation mission, which is historically an Army gig, they must have their special forces handy rather than waiting for Marine Recon or Navy Seals to show up. Air Force bases that need protection must rely upon internal specially trained personel and cannot take from the ground forces in the Army or Marine Corps who have more immediate enemy threats to contend with.

"Propaganda and recruiting tools?" Seriously?

I hope you are not comparing CAG to a MEUSOC as that they can do the same job because that is insane. If the president needs CAG to do a job there is no one else in the US military that would get the call except maybe DEVGROUP. The skill level difffence between a CAG troop and and a MEUSOC platoon is not even worth talking about. And that is not saying anything bad about the Marines it is just that MEUSOCs dont need to be that good because they do completly different jobs. But please just dont try and play it off that MEUSOC might take a job from CAG because that just wont happen.
 
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