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What Would You Do?

Noodlegawd said:
Much like believers have no understanding of putting trust in Gandalf.
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Trust doctors then. Then look at the survival rate of cancer patients that are being treated.
 
Overitall said:
People who trust God see their chances of being healed being high. It's an individual choice.
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And in objective reality, their chances are near zero. But people of faith already don’t exist in objective reality.
 
Overitall said:
Trust doctors then. Then look at the survival rate of cancer patients that are being treated.
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What is the survival rate of cancer patients that aren't treated?
 
Overitall said:
Of course my personal experience says you're wrong.
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And the personal experience of Muslims says that you are following a false religion.

You accept the truth of their personal experiences yes?

Personal experiences of Shinto people is that Yokai are real. You accept the truth of their personal experiences?

If you reject them, why arbitrarily accept only personal experiences that conform to your beliefs? Isn’t it more likely that personal experiences are not a good measure of actual reality?
 
Questerr said:
*IF* they were told, then them too.
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Elders always tell the parents...so there's that...

Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the other parent.
https://www.jw.org/en/legal/global-...scripturally-based-position-child-protection/

Questerr said:
But if a raped child only told their elder and the elder did nothing, they should go to prison.
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Elders have authority in the congregation...they are not legal authorities...

In all cases, victims and their parents have the right to report an accusation of child abuse to the authorities. Therefore, victims, their parents, or anyone else who reports such anaccusation to the elders are clearly informed by the elders that they have the right to reportthe matter to the authorities. Elders do not criticize anyone who chooses to make such areport.—Galatians 6:5.

Parents have the primary responsibility for the protection, safety, and instruction of theirchildren. Therefore, parents within the congregation are encouraged to be vigilant in exercising their responsibility at all times and to do the following:• Have direct and active involvement in their children’s lives.• Educate themselves and their children about child abuse.• Encourage, promote, and maintain regular communication with their children.—Deuteronomy 6:6, 7; Proverbs 22:3.
https://www.jw.org/en/legal/global-...scripturally-based-position-child-protection/
Questerr said:
We know you think the child should be blamed for not reporting it to someone else.
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That is a lie...I do think if a child can go to the elders, he/she is also capable of going to the legal authorities...
 
Overitall said:
Unbelievers have no understanding of putting trust in God.
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Maybe when believers prove there's a God, unbelievers might reconsider.
Overitall said:
People who trust God see their chances of being healed being high. It's an individual choice.
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It's also just a belief and/or an emotionalcomfort mechanism. Nothing more.
Overitall said:
Of course my personal experience says you're wrong.
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Subjective and anecdotal.
Overitall said:
Trust doctors then. Then look at the survival rate of cancer patients that are being treated.
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Doctors have the benefit of education, training, and experience to earn trust, rather than some deity one cannot even prove to exist.
 
Questerr said:
Because you never commit any kind of sin and never ask forgiveness for those sins?
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Daily I do...but to deliberately/willfully, and with forethought, knowing in my heart i am doing wrong? Not lately...
 
Daisy said:
Elders always tell the parents...so there's that...

Elders also ensure that the victim’s parents are informed of an accusation of child abuse. If the alleged abuser is one of the victim’s parents, the elders will inform the other parent.
https://www.jw.org/en/legal/global-...scripturally-based-position-child-protection/


Elders have authority in the congregation...they are not legal authorities...

In all cases, victims and their parents have the right to report an accusation of child abuse to the authorities. Therefore, victims, their parents, or anyone else who reports such anaccusation to the elders are clearly informed by the elders that they have the right to reportthe matter to the authorities. Elders do not criticize anyone who chooses to make such areport.—Galatians 6:5.

Parents have the primary responsibility for the protection, safety, and instruction of theirchildren. Therefore, parents within the congregation are encouraged to be vigilant in exercising their responsibility at all times and to do the following:• Have direct and active involvement in their children’s lives.• Educate themselves and their children about child abuse.• Encourage, promote, and maintain regular communication with their children.—Deuteronomy 6:6, 7; Proverbs 22:3.
https://www.jw.org/en/legal/global-...scripturally-based-position-child-protection/

That is a lie...I do think if a child can go to the elders, he/she is also capable of going to the legal authorities...
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So for instance, if someone is trespassing in a Kingdom Hall, because the elders aren’t legal authorities, they won’t call the police and report that alleged crime?

So again, you believe the child should be held responsible for the report not going to the police if they only told the elder about their abuse. The raped child should be blamed.

BTW, these would be the same police who serve a government that the JW’s say is evil and satanic and they shouldn’t have any interactions with?
 
Noodlegawd said:
What is the survival rate of cancer patients that aren't treated?
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My point is that there is no guarantees. If you put all your faith in the medical community to heal you, you can't know for certainty that it will make a difference.
 
Daisy said:
Daily I do...but to deliberately/willfully, and with forethought, knowing in my heart i am doing wrong? Not lately...
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And if you did, you could never be forgiven?
 
Overitall said:
My point is that there is no guarantees. If you put all your faith in the medical community to heal you, you can't know for certainty that it will make a difference.
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Put all your faith in god, what certainty do you get? Are you guaranteed to be healed?
 
Overitall said:
My point is that there is no guarantees. If you put all your faith in the medical community to heal you, you can't know for certainty that it will make a difference.
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The medical community has a stronger and more demonstrable track record.
 
Daisy said:
And if not...they will live again...Jehovah promises...
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I'm amazed (and amused) that unbelievers don't seem to recognize the faith they have in the medical community.
 
Overitall said:
I'm amazed (and amused) that unbelievers don't seem to recognize the faith they have in the medical community.
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It's not faith when there is evidence based practice to back the medical community up.
 
Overitall said:
Millions are still dying even after getting medical treatment.
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Yes, and millions more would likely die or have morbidities without medical treatment. As medical technology and interventions advance, survival or successful treatments are likely to be even higher.
 
Overitall said:
My point is that there is no guarantees. If you put all your faith in the medical community to heal you, you can't know for certainty that it will make a difference.
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No one ever claimed that there are guarantees, least of all the medical community. But the medical community is the only option to improve your chances of surviving cancer.
 
Rev said:
do you have anything to back that up?
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Yes. Multiple double blind studies have been done regarding things like prayer in conjunction with medical treatment. It has no effect when the person is unaware of it.

Prayer and faith work like the placebo effect. They only function when the patient believes they function and is aware of them being done. Which means the effect is actually resulting from something internal to the person and not any external force.
 
Noodlegawd said:
No one ever claimed that there are guarantees, least of all the medical community. But the medical community is the only option to improve your chances of surviving cancer.
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I disagree. Even the medical community is warming up to holistic medicine and faith. Have you never noticed most major hospitals have chapels?
 
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