What to do with 'religion'

[btthegreat]

I am posting this against my best judgement, because things can get so nasty and ugly, with very little good coming from these religious sceptic discussions, so I think its highly likely I will end up 'ghosting' fairly soon from my own thread. But I a self described agnostic atheist, will try to express this view of mine.

My gut tells me that religion in us humans works like the wings on a penguin. They came about as a valuable adaptation for flight and that is exactly how they functioned for eons. Over time, penguins adapted into birds that needed to swim effectively, swiftly and for greater distances, more than they needed to fly effectively, swiftly and for greater distances, so that is what their body shape rewarded as they evolved. Those wings were simply useless because they could no longer carry that new body into the air. Either they would change into flippers, or they would shrink into evolutionary stubs.

That is what is happening to religion as a psycho-social evolutionary attribute among humans. It just is not serving our modern needs and is maladaptive for our new evidence based information age environment. Either religions have to dramatically change their structure and essence into something more valuable, or they will gradually shrink like the primate tail on us did. All we have left is a bony little stub at that is fused to our coccyx.

I don't know yet whether we are 'better off' without religion, but I definitely don't think we would be smart penguins if we decided to go around ripping and tearing at those 'wings' off each other, because who knows what they might begat eventually which might be very very useful to enough of us to survive in some very very cold dark and forbidding waters.

Similarly, I am content to let 'nature' take its course slowly with respect to religion. I am in no rush to either save and protect religion nor do I want to bite at it, tear at it and rip its tendons and muscles. ,

 

[Dragonfly]

The only time religion is a problem, is when it’s forced on others. Especially when it’s incorporated into laws.

If people kept their religion to themselves it wouldn’t be a problem at all. Probably wouldn’t even have a forum here at DP.

 

[Valery]

The only time religion is a problem, is when it’s forced on others. Especially when it’s incorporated into laws.

If people kept their religion to themselves it wouldn’t be a problem at all. Probably wouldn’t even have a forum here at DP.

And maybe if atheists kept their disbelief to themselves, it wouldn't be a problem? Sound good? No?

 

[Daisy]

The only time religion is a problem, is when it’s forced on others. Especially when it’s incorporated into laws.

If people kept their religion to themselves it wouldn’t be a problem at all. Probably wouldn’t even have a forum here at DP.

It is no more your right to silence me than it is mine to silence you...remember that...

 

[Dragonfly]

And maybe if atheists kept their disbelief to themselves, it wouldn't be a problem? Sound good? No?

Says the guy who supports one of the most horrendously oppressive and dangerous religions on earth.

 

[PeacefulWarrior]

I am posting this against my best judgement, because things can get so nasty and ugly, with very little good coming from these religious sceptic discussions, so I think its highly likely I will end up 'ghosting' fairly soon from my own thread. But I a self described agnostic atheist, will try to express this view of mine.

My gut tells me that religion in us humans works like the wings on a penguin. They came about as a valuable adaptation for flight and that is exactly how they functioned for eons. Over time, penguins adapted into birds that needed to swim effectively, swiftly and for greater distances, more than they needed to fly effectively, swiftly and for greater distances, so that is what their body shape rewarded as they evolved. Those wings were simply useless because they could no longer carry that new body into the air. Either they would change into flippers, or they would shrink into evolutionary stubs.

That is what is happening to religion as a psycho-social evolutionary attribute among humans. It just is not serving our modern needs and is maladaptive for our new evidence based information age environment. Either religions have to dramatically change their structure and essence into something more valuable, or they will gradually shrink like the primate tail on us did. All we have left is a bony little stub at that is fused to our coccyx.

I don't know yet whether we are 'better off' without religion, but I definitely don't think we would be smart penguins if we decided to go around ripping and tearing at those 'wings' off each other, because who knows what they might begat eventually which might be very very useful to enough of us to survive in some very very cold dark and forbidding waters.

Similarly, I am content to let 'nature' take its course slowly with respect to religion. I am in no rush to either save and protect religion nor do I want to bite at it, tear at it and rip its tendons and muscles. ,

Dont kid yourself, religion is here to stay. Unfortunately.
IMO, religion has done more to inhibit human development and learning than any other single factor.
For example: for centuries merely saying the earth wasn't the center of the Universe would get you impaled on a stake.
Thats just backward, and evil.
And these "religious" people still do the same today in some places, and would right here in the USA if only they were permitted to do so.
Just look at how, in more modern times, GW Bush killed stem cell research, something that will end untold human suffering, because "god" doesn't want us to do that.
Cray stuff IMO, but it isnt going anywhere I'm afraid.
Religion: the plague that resists all science.

 

[Valery]

Says the guy who supports one of the most horrendously oppressive and dangerous religions on earth.

I didn't think so either.

 

[Buckeyes85]

And maybe if atheists kept their disbelief to themselves, it wouldn't be a problem? Sound good? No?

When was the last time an atheist knocked on your door or appeared on a street corner passing out pamphlets about how you would be better off not believing in any god?

 

[Daisy]

When was the last time an atheist knocked on your door or appeared on a street corner passing out pamphlets about how you would be better off not believing in any god?

Since when do you not have the freedom to say no?

 

[Buckeyes85]

Dont kid yourself, religion is here to stay. Unfortunately.
IMO, religion has done more to inhibit human development and learning than any other single factor.
For example: for centuries merely saying the earth wasn't the center of the Universe would get you impaled on a stake.
Thats just backward, and evil.
And these "religious" people still do the same today in some places, and would right here in the USA if only they were permitted to do so.
Just look at how, in more modern times, GW Bush killed stem cell research, something that will end untold human suffering, because "god" doesn't want us to do that.
Cray stuff IMO, but it isnt going anywhere I'm afraid.
Religion: the plague that resists all science.

Religion in some form will always be around. I agree with that because there will always be people who would prefer a super natural explanation to things versus a natural.
That said, religion has declined significantly in the the role it plays in many advanced countries and that decline will continue. The more informed humans become, the less important religion will be to many/most.

 

[lemmiwinx]

Why the distinction between a religion and a bowling league? Why does one get a tax break and the other pays through the nose for a liquor license?

 

[Lisa]

And maybe if atheists kept their disbelief to themselves, it wouldn't be a problem? Sound good? No?

We have the same right to speak about our lack of belief as you do your unproven beliefs.

The best way to deal with religion is to teach critical thinking skills as well as a critical religion class in all public schools this is mandatory for graduation that discuss all religious belief on an equal footing, as well as non-belief and the history of religious belief. It is proven that the more you know about religion the less likely that you are to be a believer.

Highly educated Americans also are less inclined than others to say they believe in God with absolute certainty and to pray on a daily basis. And, when asked about their religious identity, college graduates are more likely than others to describe themselves as atheists or agnostics (11% of college grads vs. 4% of U.S. adults with a high school education or less).

In America, Does More Education Equal Less Religion?

Overall, U.S. adults with college degrees are less religious than others on some measures. However, Christians with higher levels of education appear to be just as religious as those with less schooling.

www.pewforum.org

 

[Daisy]

We have the same right to speak about our lack of belief as you do your unproven beliefs.

The best way to deal with religion is to teach critical thinking skills as well as a critical religion class in all public schools this is mandatory for graduation that discuss all religious belief on an equal footing, as well as non-belief and the history of religious belief. It is proven that the more you know about religion the less likely that you are to be a believer.

In America, Does More Education Equal Less Religion?

Overall, U.S. adults with college degrees are less religious than others on some measures. However, Christians with higher levels of education appear to be just as religious as those with less schooling.

www.pewforum.org

No one is stopping you...are being imprisoned or tortured?

 

[btthegreat]

The only time religion is a problem, is when it’s forced on others. Especially when it’s incorporated into laws.

If people kept their religion to themselves it wouldn’t be a problem at all. Probably wouldn’t even have a forum here at DP.

Want to explore this one with you. I really don't mind them being in the American market of ideas and trying to market their idea, any more than I resent a Tupperware salesman, a magazine subscription or someone promoting an initiative petition or candidate. They should not have to hide in a closet and just wait to die off. Its about how they sell their product. You sell to adults not kids, you don't spend a lot of time 'badmouthing' the competition, and you learn to take your hints about when its a good time, when its a bad time. I don't mind them ringing my door, and offering to chat, as long as they don't mind if I don't answer or politely cut the conversation off. In short, proselytizing is fine, as long as you aren't being a prick about it. I have the same standard for atheists or secular humanists - and those kids selling magazine subscriptions.

Do we disagree?

 

[Evilroddy]

Leave it alone so long as it is separate from the state and its practioners do not harm others within or outside the religion. If the practitioners do harm others, then prosectuted them in secular courts and allow civil suits against the religious institution(s) which the harmers were a part of.

Cheers and be well.
Evilroddy.

 

[Lisa]

No one is stopping you...are being imprisoned or tortured?

This is the post of Valary's that I replied to. According to him, atheists are supposed to shut up about your lack of religious belief.

And maybe if atheists kept their disbelief to themselves, it wouldn't be a problem? Sound good? No?

 

[Daisy]

This is the post of Valary's that I replied to. According to him, atheists are supposed to shut up about your lack of religious belief.

I am not Valery...

 

[Buckeyes85]

Since when do you not have the freedom to say no?

You seem to be ignoring the post I was responding to: And maybe if atheists kept their disbeliefs to themselves, it wouldn't be a problem.

And of course I do have the freedom to say no and when a bible thumper knocks on my door (usually Jehova's Witness) I am very polite but tell them I'm not interested. But my dander does get up a bit when I hear believers complaining about us atheist's supposedly pushing our non belief on them/you.

 

[mrjurrs]

I am posting this against my best judgement, because things can get so nasty and ugly, with very little good coming from these religious sceptic discussions, so I think its highly likely I will end up 'ghosting' fairly soon from my own thread. But I a self described agnostic atheist, will try to express this view of mine.

My gut tells me that religion in us humans works like the wings on a penguin. They came about as a valuable adaptation for flight and that is exactly how they functioned for eons. Over time, penguins adapted into birds that needed to swim effectively, swiftly and for greater distances, more than they needed to fly effectively, swiftly and for greater distances, so that is what their body shape rewarded as they evolved. Those wings were simply useless because they could no longer carry that new body into the air. Either they would change into flippers, or they would shrink into evolutionary stubs.

That is what is happening to religion as a psycho-social evolutionary attribute among humans. It just is not serving our modern needs and is maladaptive for our new evidence based information age environment. Either religions have to dramatically change their structure and essence into something more valuable, or they will gradually shrink like the primate tail on us did. All we have left is a bony little stub at that is fused to our coccyx.

I don't know yet whether we are 'better off' without religion, but I definitely don't think we would be smart penguins if we decided to go around ripping and tearing at those 'wings' off each other, because who knows what they might begat eventually which might be very very useful to enough of us to survive in some very very cold dark and forbidding waters.

Similarly, I am content to let 'nature' take its course slowly with respect to religion. I am in no rush to either save and protect religion nor do I want to bite at it, tear at it and rip its tendons and muscles. ,

I have no problem with faith, faith can be a beautiful thing. I have a huge problem with religion. Religion is man's effort to hold power over others. Once a religious person tells me that they know...I know the conversation will end quickly.

 

[btthegreat]

We have the same right to speak about our lack of belief as you do your unproven beliefs.

The best way to deal with religion is to teach critical thinking skills as well as a critical religion class in all public schools this is mandatory for graduation that discuss all religious belief on an equal footing, as well as non-belief and the history of religious belief. It is proven that the more you know about religion the less likely that you are to be a believer.

In America, Does More Education Equal Less Religion?

Overall, U.S. adults with college degrees are less religious than others on some measures. However, Christians with higher levels of education appear to be just as religious as those with less schooling.

www.pewforum.org

I am ALL for that critical thinking skills, but the 'critical religion class' where a teacher has students apply them specifically to religious teachings in a required class, seems inconsistent with my view of boundaries of first amendment. The goal of public schools is not about reducing the number of theists that graduate in this country and that sure is not incidental to your purpose or you would not be selling it as some sort of added benefit. We have plenty of subjects that we can use to get that critical thinking practice in. I think it best if we leave aside some effort by government to dissect religions in third period, like we do frogs in biology class in fourth period.

 

[Daisy]

You seem to be ignoring the post I was responding to: And maybe if atheists kept their disbeliefs to themselves, it wouldn't be a problem.

And of course I do have the freedom to say no and when a bible thumper knocks on my door (usually Jehova's Witness) I am very polite but tell them I'm not interested. But my dander does get up a bit when I hear believers complaining about us atheist's supposedly pushing our non belief on them/you.

I got no problem with it...I'd just give you a witness...

 

[ttwtt78640]

IMHO, a huge problem with many religions (sects?) is that their “constitutions” contain no method of being amended, thus it must be said to be strictly adhered to (at the risk of eternal damnation) while also being constantly reinterpreted. That seems to be why believers in the Bible (as the combination of both old and new testaments) have formed so many subgroups (sects?) of Christians all claiming to follow it’s “word of God” differently.

 

[Dragonfly]

Want to explore this one with you. I really don't mind them being in the American market of ideas and trying to market their idea, any more than I resent a Tupperware salesman, a magazine subscription or someone promoting an initiative petition or candidate. They should not have to hide in a closet and just wait to die off. Its about how they sell their product. You sell to adults not kids, you don't spend a lot of time 'badmouthing' the competition, and you learn to take your hints about when its a good time, when its a bad time. I don't mind them ringing my door, and offering to chat, as long as they don't mind if I don't answer or politely cut the conversation off. In short, proselytizing is fine, as long as you aren't being a prick about it. I have the same standard for atheists or secular humanists - and those kids selling magazine subscriptions.

Do we disagree?

It’s interesting, and quite telling, that some people fixated on the second part of my post while completely overlooking the first part.

 

[Daisy]

It’s interesting, and quite telling, that some people fixated on the second part of my post while completely overlooking the first part.

I read the 1st part...it's not my intent to have anything to do with secular laws...now what say you?

 

[Lisa]

I am not Valery...

Your should have read our. I'm sorry for my typo.

I read the 1st part...it's not my intent to have anything to do with secular laws...now what say you?

in the world, secular law does apply to you, no matter your religious beliefs or lack thereof. Your religious beliefs do not in any way exempt you from obeying secular law.