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What is your take on gays?

Datamonkee said:
And that is my point. The only difference between the two is a religion doesn't approve of it. Blue eyes and Brown eyes.
I don't care to bring religion into it, so if that is the issue you wish to contest you will have to find someone ells to spar with.

What is your evidence which leads you to conclude that there is no material difference between homosexuality and heterosexuality? Have you answered your oun questions posed to me? What is the source of heterosexuality? Is there a hetero-gene?

In order to say as fact that there is no difference, other than religion, between homosexuality and heterosexuality you must know what their source(s) are. Tell me what they are!
 
"D.F. Swaab conducted the next noteworthy experiment in 1990. This experiment became the first to document a physiological difference in the anatomical structure of a gay man's brain. Swaab found in his post-mortem examination of homosexual males' brains that a portion of the hypothalamus of the brain was structurally different than a heterosexual brain. The hypothalamus is the portion of the human brain directly related to sexual drive and function. In the homosexual brains examined, a small portion of the hypothalamus, termed the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN), was found to be twice the size of its heterosexual counterpart [2].

At the same time, another scientist, Laura S. Allen made a similar discovery in the hypothalamus as well. She found that the anterior commissure (AC) of the hypothalamus was also significantly larger in the homosexual subjects than that of the heterosexuals [2]. Both Swaab's and Allen's results became a standing ground for the biological argument on homosexuality. The very fact that the AC and the SCN are not involved in the regulation of sexual behavior makes it highly unlikely that the size differences results from differences in sexual behavior. Rather the size differences came prenatally during sexual differentiation. The size and shape of the human brain is determined biologically and is impacted minutely, if at all by behavior of any kind."

http://allpsych.com/journal/homosexuality.html


In 1973 the APA declared that homosexuality was not a mental disorder.

If you're born that way I doubt God would consider you a sinner. Don't you?
 
Jerry....where is your proof that homosexuality is a psycho disorder??? Did you interpret that from something in the Bible too????:stooges
 
talloulou said:
Jerry....where is your proof that homosexuality is a psycho disorder??? Did you interpret that from something in the Bible too????:stooges
Again, I do not wish to bring religion into this. If religion is what you wish to contest, you will have to find someone ells to do it with.

Attempting to side-step and/or dodge the issue by answering questions with questions will get you nowhere. I'll show you mine after you show me yours. ;)
 
Jerry said:
Sophistry.
No, reality.

Is there or is there not a clear and definitive genetic marker to which science can point to and say "this is what makes you hetero/homosexual"?
Nope. There is almost no such 'clear genetic marker" for anything at all. Such are extremely rare in biology.

Does this genetic marker sher resemblance in structure or methid of operation with what determines eye color?
The determination of eye color is also to some extend a multi-gene source, if that is what you are asking about.

Everything we have found is indicating sexuality more as a continuum than an "either/or" dichotemy. The artificial spread is based on culture, not biology.

Also, please do not continue to misrepresent what I say. I have not said that one is "better" because it is "normal".
You are right. My mistake, I was in error and retract my remark.
 
Jerry said:
I'll show you mine after you show me yours. ;)

I did show you mine. I posted all that science mumbo jumbo about sexuality and the hypothalmus???

Didn't you read it Jerry?
 
Jerry said:
Again, I do not wish to bring religion into this. If religion is what you wish to contest, you will have to find someone ells to do it with.

We don't have to bring religion in it....that actually works better for me since I'm not religious. I'm just curious as to why you are convinced that homosexuality is a mental disorder when drs. and scientists do not agree with you and haven't since the 1970's?
 
steen said:
Nope. There is almost no such 'clear genetic marker" for anything at all. Such are extremely rare in biology.

Actually there are many articles that discuss the hypothalmus and what it has to do with sexuality and it is determined before you leave the womb. It's not a genetic marker but it is a biological occurrence.
 
talloulou said:
Actually there are many articles that discuss the hypothalmus and what it has to do with sexuality and it is determined before you leave the womb. It's not a genetic marker but it is a biological occurrence.
And it is also determined by a flurry of genes. But yes, you are correct.
 
battleax86 said:
I agree 100% that the blood of Jesus gets you into Heaven. Unfortunately, your other assertions that go along with it are dead wrong. Jesus is not in your heart if you do not follow what He says, namely repenting of your sins and asking for forgiveness under His blood.

You can be a sinner and have Jesus in your heart. It's impossible to live without Christian sin, unless of course your Christ. A compulsive liar can go to heaven, so can Jefferey Dahmer, I've been told. Behavior is not a determinate to salvation, your beliefs are.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
You can be a sinner and have Jesus in your heart. It's impossible to live without Christian sin, unless of course your Christ. A compulsive liar can go to heaven, so can Jefferey Dahmer, I've been told. Behavior is not a determinate to salvation, your beliefs are.

Incorrect. Faith without works is dead. Knowing that what you are doing is a sin, and continuing to do so, proves an unclean heart, and that will get you nowhere.
One must not only renounce the sins, but refuse to do them further.
 
steen said:
The determination of eye color is also to some extend a multi-gene source, if that is what you are asking about.
Yup, that answers it.
Everything we have found is indicating sexuality more as a continuum than an "either/or" dichotomy. The artificial spread is based on culture, not biology.
I can't wait for the day when the entire continuum of sexuality is clearly known and understood by the general populace.
You are right. My mistake, I was in error and retract my remark.
It's cool.
 
talloulou said:
I did show you mine. I posted all that science mumbo jumbo about sexuality and the hypothalmus???

Didn't you read it Jerry?
I'm in the process of reading both yours and steen's references. I'd like to read through them a couple time before I continue.
I don't have much time for my computer each day (carpultunnle prevention) but I'll chime back in when I'm finished.
 
talloulou said:
We don't have to bring religion in it....that actually works better for me since I'm not religious. I'm just curious as to why you are convinced that homosexuality is a mental disorder when drs. and scientists do not agree with you and haven't since the 1970's?
There is a body of scientists who dissent from the APA's stance on homosexuality. Here is one example. (That one's for you, steen ;) )
Here's a bit about one of NARTH's founding members.

Basically, they make more sense to me then does the APA.
 
Jerry said:
There is a body of scientists who dissent from the APA's stance on homosexuality. Here is one example. (That one's for you, steen ;) )
Here's a bit about one of NARTH's founding members.

"Narth is a non-profit organization dedicated to affirming a complementary, male-female model of gender and sexuality"..... according to their own website they are totally biased! Yet both your sources come from NARTH!

Also listen to this tidbit from the founding member

"homosexuality develops in the first two years of the boy's life, during the preoedipal stage of the boy's personality formation, and is caused by a domineering, controlling, castrating, and phallic mother who prevents her son from separating from her, and a distant, weak, abdicating, and rejecting father who does not serve as a role model for his son and does not support his son's effort to escape from the mother."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Socarides

Are you freaking kidding me Jerry????? You put your trust in that hogwash???

How does that ridiculous explanation begin to explain how there can be 1 gay brother in a family with 4 sons? Was the mom just castrating towards the one brother but not the others? What a bunch of total BS!

That man is a total douchebag who blames his wife for his son's homosexuality. What a lunatic. Plus did he ever cure his son? Nope, I'd guess not since his son worked for Clinton representing the gay community. Not only that the douchebag was DIVORCED three times. Either his stupidity was too much for any wife to tolerate or he's an overly repressed closeted gay who couldn't get it up for women.

Good Lord if this is your "source" material you need to expand your horizons a bit. You can't get all your information from a group founded by one of the most homophobic men there ever was.
 
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Jerry said:
There is a body of scientists who dissent from the APA's stance on homosexuality. Here is one example. (That one's for you, steen ;) )
Here's a bit about one of NARTH's founding members.

Basically, they make more sense to me then does the APA.
Basically, they have no scientific foundation for their claims. Beliefs don't determine disgnostic criteria, evidence does. I have looked at their site before, and they have no science to back them up, only claims.
 
talloulou said:
Are you freaking kidding me Jerry????? You put your trust in that hogwash???

How does that ridiculous explanation begin to explain how there can be 1 gay brother in a family with 4 sons? Was the mom just castrating towards the one brother but not the others? What a bunch of total BS!
This is why I put stock in actual, objective science rather than trying to portray personal beliefs as science
 
talloulou said:
"Narth is a non-profit organization dedicated to affirming a complementary, male-female model of gender and sexuality"..... according to their own website they are totally biased! Yet both your sources come from NARTH!

Also listen to this tidbit from the founding member

"homosexuality develops in the first two years of the boy's life, during the preoedipal stage of the boy's personality formation, and is caused by a domineering, controlling, castrating, and phallic mother who prevents her son from separating from her, and a distant, weak, abdicating, and rejecting father who does not serve as a role model for his son and does not support his son's effort to escape from the mother."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Socarides

Are you freaking kidding me Jerry????? You put your trust in that hogwash???

How does that ridiculous explanation begin to explain how there can be 1 gay brother in a family with 4 sons? Was the mom just castrating towards the one brother but not the others? What a bunch of total BS!

That man is a total douchebag who blames his wife for his son's homosexuality. What a lunatic. Plus did he ever cure his son? Nope, I'd guess not since his son worked for Clinton representing the gay community. Not only that the douchebag was DIVORCED three times. Either his stupidity was too much for any wife to tolerate or he's an overly repressed closeted gay who couldn't get it up for women.

Good Lord if this is your "source" material you need to expand your horizons a bit. You can't get all your information from a group founded by one of the most homophobic men there ever was.
:rofl
Thats just the sort of tempertantrum I was hoping for.

If you want to get into NARTH's theories on what causes homosexuality and why Charles Socarides's son choose to stay homosexual, we could; but that is not the direction I was hoping to go on this thread.
 
Jerry said:
:rofl
Thats just the sort of tempertantrum I was hoping for.

I don't understand....why were you hoping my reaction was the way it was?

If you want to get into NARTH's theories on what causes homosexuality and why Charles Socarides's son choose to stay homosexual, we could; but that is not the direction I was hoping to go on this thread.

What direction are you trying to get this thread to go? I don't understand you....I'm confused.
 
talloulou said:
I don't understand....why were you hoping my reaction was the way it was?



What direction are you trying to get this thread to go? I don't understand you....I'm confused.
Simple, just to pi$$ you off.
 
talloulou said:
I don't understand....why were you hoping my reaction was the way it was?



What direction are you trying to get this thread to go? I don't understand you....I'm confused.
It's important to discharge excessive emotion and get everyone's hysteria out of the way. I understand that this is a subject of passion, but if we vent our frustrations now and let go of practiced mantra, we will be in a better position to listen, even if we still disagree.

If you liked that, you'll love this.
 
Jerry said:
If you liked that, you'll love this.

Sorry it took long to reply....I wanted to really look at the website. I found it amusing. Do you agree with the "Christianization of the whole world" agenda?? If so....good look with that!:monkey

Relating to the topic at hand...I found this disgusting......

"These Christians usually oppose "capital punishment," although many do support "capital punishment" for murderers, while they oppose it for homosexuals, wizards, and others against whom the Bible just as clearly commands "capital punishment."

http://user.aol.com/VFTINC/DeathRow/index.htm

Are they saying they believe gays should be put to death??? Do you believe that???

If you do I am no longer amused. That is sick and disgusting and if you agree with that idea I have nothing further to say to you PERIOD!
 
Jerry said:
It's important to discharge excessive emotion and get everyone's hysteria out of the way. I understand that this is a subject of passion, but if we vent our frustrations now and let go of practiced mantra, we will be in a better position to listen, even if we still disagree.

If you liked that, you'll love this.

[mod mode]

Intentionally creating a negative emotion in a fellow debator sounds a lot like flaming to me. I'll let this one go because I do not believe your intent was malicious. Just don't do it again.

[/mod mode]
 
Kelzie said:
[mod mode]

Intentionally creating a negative emotion in a fellow debator sounds a lot like flaming to me. I'll let this one go because I do not believe your intent was malicious. Just don't do it again.

[/mod mode]

Oi! here we go with this over-zealous Mod crapola again! :mrgreen:
 
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