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What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of America?

What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of America?

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Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


Well, I'm not sure I can agree completely. I see a tremendous tilt towards Progressivism, which is certainly more liberal than what I consider was the standard among Democrats before. There continues to be a massive increase in regulatory powers, and those societal issues aren't just window dressing, but represent significant changes.

Of course then there is Obamacare, which some would argue far overshadows any Great Society objective LBJ set.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


Obamacare is minuscule in its scope compared to the Great Society. For example, Medicare is not just the largest socialized health program in America, it is the largest socialized health program on earth. Johnson signed into law 40 anti-poverty programs and 60 education programs. Half of the federal government today was enacted in the 4 years he was in office.

HIGHER EDUCATION FACILITIES ACT OF 1963 DEC. 16, 1963

PREVENTION & ABATEMENT OF AIR POLLUTION
(THE CLEAN AIR ACT) DEC. 17, 1963

VOCATIONAL EDUCATION ACT OF 1963 DEC. 18, 1963

INTER-AMERICAN DEVELOPMENT BANK ACT JAN. 22,1964

CIVIL RIGHTS ACT OF 1964 JULY 2, 1964

URBAN MASS TRANSPORTATION ACT OF 1964 JULY 9, 1964

FEDERAL-AID HIGHWAY ACT OF 1964 AUG. 13, 1964

CRIMINAL JUSTICE ACT OF 1964 AUG. 20, 1964

FOOD STAMP ACT OF 1964 AUG. 31, 1964

WILDERNESS ACT SEPT. 3, 1964

NATIONAL ARTS CULTURAL DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 1964 SEPT. 3, 1964

MANPOWER ACT OF 1965 APRIL 26, 1965

OLDER AMERICANS ACT OF 1965 JULY 14, 1965

SOCIAL SECURITY AMENDMENTS OF 1965 JULY 30, 1965

VOTING RIGHTS ACT OF 1965 AUG. 6, 1965

HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 1965 AUG. 10, 1965

PUBLIC WORKS AND ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT ACT OF 1965 AUG. 26, 1965

DEPARTMENT OF HOUSING AND URBAN DEVELOPMENT ACT SEPT. 9, 1965

NATIONAL FOUNDATION ON THE ARTS & THE HUMANITIES
ACT OF 1965 SEPT. 29, 1965

AMENDMENT OF FEDERAL WATER POLLUTION
CONTROL ACT OCT. 2, 1965

AMENDMENT TO THE IMMIGRATION AND NATIONALITY ACT OCT. 3, 1965

HIGHER EDUCATION ACT OF 1965 NOV. 8, 1965

CHILD NUTRITION ACT OF 1966 OCT. 11, 1966

CHILD PROTECTION ACT OF 1966 NOV. 3, 1966

NATIONAL SCHOOL LUNCH ACT MAY 8, 1968

Obama is a Goldwater Conservative compared to LBJ. Most people today do not realize how far to the right both parties have moved in the last 40 years. For the Republicans it started with Reagan, then the Gingrich Congress, and now with the Tea Party. With the Democrats the transition resulted from the DLC in the 80s and 90s.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


Since there are those who argue Obamacare was designed to open the door to single payer, such a result would play pretty well against the various programs you listed.

I think it's a stretch past the breaking point to suggest Obama is a Goldwater Conservative compared to LBJ. When one looks at initiatives involving education, environment, "social justice", etc., there are some seriously liberal/progressive ideologies in force, with profound impacts on every person living in the U.S., not just those the government deemed needy in the '60's.

With such agendas at work, I'm thinking "far to the right" is a phrase that is completely vacant from any reference to President Obama.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


I think you need to read up more on the Great Society then. Its scope was well beyond anything the Obama Administration has pushed for. Moreover, the New Deal was as well. Its not like Obama in response to the Great Recession put tens of Millions of Americans to work for the federal government.

That all said, I have no doubt that in California there are some extremely liberal Democrats. I think I would be a conservative if I lived in California. However, they are not in any way representative of the party as a whole anymore.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


LBJ was never referred to as 'The Food Stamp President", though his policies likely led to this. Nor did he every make a world apology tour for America. Johnson also had the decency to quit before he dug the hole deeper.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


If Obama was as far to the right as you say, there would be no need for the Tea Party.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

Grant said:
If Obama was as far to the right as you say, there would be no need for the Tea Party.
Click to expand...

The Tea Party is nothing new. Its nothing but the old Religious Right repackaged. Every time a Dem gets in office the far right starts screaming communism. They did it while JFK was in office, they did it while LBJ was in office, they did it while Clinton was in office and they are doing it today. It is nothing new. I don't think Obama is a right winger. I am just pointing out that he is not as far to the left as many other presidents in the 20th Century were.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


Yes, yes, they are all the same. Religious Right, Communists, Tea Party. All the same. Got it.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


Very optimistic. Why am I optimistic? Because the USA is still best place in the world to live.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


Well, as a Baby Boomer, I've lived through the initiatives, and I've listened to the debates, so I do have some working knowledge of LBJ's Great Society. I do think there is a difference between what has been accomplished, certainly. But I suppose the question relates to President Obama and what he has proposed, versus what he has accomplished.

If the measure is "accomplished" I can see where one might suggest President Obama does not measure up to the liberalism of LBJ. If the measure is "proposed", I think President Obama stacks up quite well.

There are massive changes in society taking place as a direct result of President Obama's intiatives. Again, from education, to energy, to environment, to government roles in family and government roles in business. These aren't small moves, these are society changing moves, much like those put in place during LBJ's administration. I think it's a mistake, or an omission by design, to suggest otherwise.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


The fact that Obama said upfront that he wanted to "fundamentally transform America," should have been a wakeup call to everyone that loves our Country and what it stands for. We were warned, and it is taking place! Unfortunately I would have preferred that statement to be merely braggadocio, rather than actual. :thumbdown:
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


Yes, fundamentally changing the most successful country in world history should have given many pause for thought. You don't know what you got til it's gone.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


:doh. Um, I gave you two sources about prop 13 that were from conservative sources. Not only are you unwillingly to admit to that, now you are unwillingly to look at hard numbers about per pupil spending because you are trying to connect Ed Source to Soros in some bizzaro way. Sources don't create the formula that is used for per pupil spending. Talk about willful ignorance.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


Your sources were not convervative, but that makes no difference. EdSource is a Progressive organization backed by Progressive groups. Many of those Progressive groups are directly connected to George Soros and his Progressive Machine operations. I've suggested you look into Soros Democracy Alliance, but apparently you have decided to claim the connection bizzaro, rather than learning for yourself.

Nothing I have posted is not backed up facts available directly from actual sources. Your sources, on the other hand, are directly connected to source with money in the game. Not a good place to get accurate information.

So be it.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


A crock of BS. You have not stated different per pupil spending!!! You just tried to pull an ad hominem with mine. GO ahead, I dare you to post something saying CA is different in per pupil spending than what is reported by several other sources. Go ahead....give me ONE. TIA
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


I already have. Not my first rodeo rabbit, so your demand doesn't change anything. It's apparent logic is lost in the face of the Progressive sources you've chosen to believe. They count on that.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

I'm somewhat both pessimistic and optimistic.

The country is too big to go down suddenly from a sweeping financial decline. Some parts of the economy are doing better than other parts. Like there's been a big uptick in energy production. Just because the News Media likes to "shock & awe" with Headlines for ratings doesn't mean everything is as bad as they portray.

We have big debt publicly, privately and failing social programs though with different initiatives being undertaken eventually much of this will be worked out. I think right now we're stuck in a holding pattern somewhat where if we try to reverse debt too suddenly we cause other parts of the economy to be dragged down. Events and situations will ebb and flow as they have historically but the USA could be at the precipice of losing the global domination we've enjoyed for the last several decades.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

ocean515 said:
I already have. Not my first rodeo rabbit, so your demand doesn't change anything. It's apparent logic is lost in the face of the Progressive sources you've chosen to believe. They count on that.
Click to expand...

Continuing to use ad Hominem shouldn't be confused with presenting evidence.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

rabbitcaebannog said:
Continuing to use ad Hominem shouldn't be confused with presenting evidence.
Click to expand...

Continuing to ignore presented evidence doesn't change the end result, regardless of how hard you want to try.

You're welcome to believe what you read from the sources you chose, and I will continue to the same. I prefer accuracy.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

ocean515 said:
Continuing to ignore presented evidence doesn't change the end result, regardless of how hard you want to try.

You're welcome to believe what you read from the sources you chose, and I will continue to the same. I prefer accuracy.
Click to expand...

I see no numbers. Where are your numbers?
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


Not one of those links shows that CA pays more per pupil spending than other states. The fact is they do not. They are 49th. You give me a link on construction bonds and my question to you is what state does not use bonds to help pay for school infrastructure??? Also, most states also have pensions for teachers so you can't use that as a CA has to pay pensions so we really pay more toward pupil spending.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer


Gee, what a surprise, your still obsessed with not facing reality.

I guess all the spending on education can't be used to figure all the spending on education.

So let's play the Progressive game developed and written by the Unions and Professional Adminstrators.

Where do your sources indicate California ranks against other states when all actual spending on education is factored in?
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

ocean515 said:
Where do your sources indicate California ranks against other states when all actual spending on education is factored in?
Click to expand...

Ha, I'm still waiting for your numbers. None of your links give me this ranking.
 
Re: What is your level of optimism concerning the future of the United States of Amer

rabbitcaebannog said:
Ha, I'm still waiting for your numbers. None of your links give me this ranking.
Click to expand...

Well, I'm waiting for yours. So there you go.

Got to love the Progressive approach though. $35 billion in new school construction over the last 8 years, among the highest paid teachers in the United States, a 40% of state budget Constitutional mandate for school spending, massive unfunded teacher pension liabilities, etc, and none of that is considered education related, and in fact, the Progs claim California is 49th in spending.

Only the insane would buy any part of that.

Interesting how when I ask what your sources indicate, you dodge the question. Just more from the script.

I'm certainly not interested in waisting any more effort here.

Thanks for the lesson I admit I was too slow to learn.
 
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