YNKYH8R
Member
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- Nov 22, 2005
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- 130
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- Political Leaning
- Liberal
I agree. But my point was more towards perceptions. Cheney and Bush have been admimant on pushing on the "wuss" factor. What will we look like to the world if we leave. They seem to flip-flop (to coin a phrase) about whose perception of America maters.cnredd said:What you've said is half right...The "war" cannot be won by military means alone...But diplomacy alone would be much worse...There HAS to be a combination...
But if they vote for it we have no choice. We may want the to drive a round safely in a Volvo but if they choose the Pinto it's not our fault.cnredd said:What MUST be done is to be combative against the ones who hold on to their radical beliefs WHILE changing the ideology so that future generations will not go that direction......
For me it's never been about patience. I think some people don't understand certain aspects.cnredd said:It's sad when some people don't have the patience for this and believe that if it's not done in the next few months, than it's not worth doing at all...
rainfox said:How can the world police spend a lot of money and get so many soldiers killed and wounded just for the peace of another country?
M14 Shooter said:In the longer term:
An Iraq that has defeated the terrorists and neutralized the insurgency.
An Iraq that is peaceful, united, stable, democratic, and secure, where Iraqis have the institutions and resources they need to govern themselves justly and provide security for their country.
An Iraq that is a partner in the global war on terror and the fight against the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, integrated into the international community, an engine for regional economic growth, and proving the fruits of democratic governance to the region.
I bet there is oil in the long term one too....
The Real McCoy said:Worked for South Korea. And Germany in WWII. More American soldiers died on D-Day on the beaches of France, liberating them from Germany, than over the course of the entire war in Iraq.
rainfox said:As a foreigner,I like the movie called "Saving Private Ryan" very much.In some scenes of it,such as landing,the battles are described quite booldy and so impressive.
And at that time the American soldiers were for the justice.These men are heroes.Not only the Americans,people around the world who love peace will also remember them.
But now can you declare that the war in Iraq is also for justice?Or for one man's greed?
Don't be cheated,man.
rainfox said:But now can you declare that the war in Iraq is also for justice
oldreliable67 said:Absolutely.
Just take a look at some of those mass graves into which Saddam dumped thousands.
Just take a look at some of the photos of the Kurds and others whom Saddam gassed.
Just take a look at the seven Iraqis who came to the US after the fall of Saddams regime and received prosthetic hands to replace those cut off by Saddams hencmen.
Just go to Spirit of America and see some of the good that we are doing there.
etc. etc. etc.
The Real McCoy said:I used to buy into all the media propaganda villifying Bush as greedy and going to Iraq for his own selfish reasons but then I educated myself and grew out of that narrow minded view.
rainfox said:Then in your opinion,Bush is the God of love and peace.He started the war at least for the national security,right?
What did he find in Iraq?Anything convictive.
Tell me please,what do you think is his real goal?
oldreliable67 said:Rainfox,
A very basic difference to keep in mind: Saddam was the government, the top guy. When he did bad things, there was no higher authority to whom those wronged could appeal.
When some of our people did something wrong, they were caught because the good guys turned them in. The guilty were punished.
The real goal has already been explained....rainfox said:Then in your opinion,Bush is the God of love and peace.He started the war at least for the national security,right?
What did he find in Iraq?Anything convictive.
Tell me please,what do you think is his real goal?
rainfox said:What a wonderful explanation!I trust you,buddy.
But who authorized the U.S. to start the war?
In other words,if Bush makes some mistakes who's gonna to do the same thing as the America's doing to Saddam now?
The Real McCoy said:Never said he was anything near the "God of love and peace."
No weapons were found in Iraq because of intelligence errors which is a whole other topic..
The Real McCoy said:As far as his goal concerning Iraq: he wants to establish a democracy in the Middle East and allow freedom to flourish, setting an example for that region in hopes that the long standing oppressiveness (a key ingredient fueling Islamic extremism) will wither away in time.
rainfox said:Congress,Yeah,I think that's a saint place.
Well,I almost forget one thing.Do you mean that the American Congress permit its own contry to invade another country even without the permission of UN?
rainfox said:>>>Bush didn't have hundreds of thousands of innocent Americans slaughtered. Bush doesn't have the hands and tongues of those who speak out against him cut off. Bush didn't have public hangings of Jews. Bush didn't have those he though conspiring against him murdered.<<<<<<
Maybe you are right.But all above won't mean that he didn't make any mistakes or will never make a mistake,right?
Just tell me what I want to hear.
The Real McCoy said:Many of the members of the UN are corrupt totalitartian regimes themselves... and then of course there was the Oil for Food scandal...
I'll tell you the truth, whether or not it's what you want to hear is a different story...
Do I think Bush made mistakes? Absolutely.
The Bush Administration didn't anticipate the strength of the insurgency.
The DOD should have armored their vehicles a little better so they wren't so vulnerable to roadside bombs.
Bush shouldn't have publicly declared victory and stated major combat operations have ended.
There's more but those are the ones that come to mind.
But do I still think we should have gone to Iraq? Yes.
YNKYH8R said:Then there is also what happens if Iraq bcomes an Islamic State, following in Iran’s influence? PS. Harvey Fierstein is a gay actor he was in Mrs. Doubtfire and Independence Day to name a few.
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