Mikkel said:'victory', when it is in a counter-insurgency conflict is an extremely subjective term. That's why so many Democrats are calling for a timetable. They're worried that 'as long as it takes' will be far too long. I bet they'd be happier if Bush simply put out a speech stating concrete goals to be accomplished before it can be considered a 'victory'. So far, all we're getting is rhetoric and vague answers from the president, and I think that's why he's hurting in the polls so much.
M14 Shooter said:In the short term:
An Iraq that is making steady progress in fighting terrorists and neutralizing the insurgency, meeting political milestones; building democratic institutions; standing up robust security forces to gather intelligence, destroy terrorist networks, and maintain security; and tackling key economic reforms to lay the foundation for a sound economy.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/iraq_strategy_nov2005.html#part1
Given these terms, I'd say we're getting verry close to achieving our short-term goals and are heading strongly towards our medium term goals.
Inuyasha do you watch CNN? Caned Nuts Network?Inuyasha said:Bush is saying he will stay the course until final "victory" is achieved. Others are saying that "victory" in Iraq is impossible. And still others are taking about "limited victory." The who thing seems to be a semantical problem
It is certain that with regard to Iraq victory has nothing to do with "victory" as we know it in any conflict up to now. What is YOUR definition of "victory" in Iraq?
stsburns said:Inuyasha do you watch CNN? Caned Nuts Network?
:rofl Yep, need to take a break from the news every now and then. :lol:Inuyasha said:I have watched them all (cable news reviews) but now I don't watch them too much. I've grown up TVwise. i am into serious TV now. Mainly the Cartoon Channel.
M14 Shooter said:Yer kidding, right?
Victory, as defined by the Administration:
As the central front in the global war on terror, success in Iraq is an essential element in the long war against the ideology that breeds international terrorism. Unlike past wars, however, victory in Iraq will not come in the form of an enemy's surrender, or be signaled by a single particular event -- there will be no Battleship Missouri, no Appomattox. The ultimate victory will be achieved in stages, and we expect:
In the short term:
An Iraq that is making steady progress in fighting terrorists and neutralizing the insurgency, meeting political milestones; building democratic institutions; standing up robust security forces to gather intelligence, destroy terrorist networks, and maintain security; and tackling key economic reforms to lay the foundation for a sound economy.
In the medium term:
An Iraq that is in the lead defeating terrorists and insurgents and providing its own security, with a constitutional, elected government in place, providing an inspiring example to reformers in the region, and well on its way to achieving its economic potential.
In the longer term:
An Iraq that has defeated the terrorists and neutralized the insurgency.
An Iraq that is peaceful, united, stable, democratic, and secure, where Iraqis have the institutions and resources they need to govern themselves justly and provide security for their country.
An Iraq that is a partner in the global war on terror and the fight against the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction, integrated into the international community, an engine for regional economic growth, and proving the fruits of democratic governance to the region.
http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/iraq_strategy_nov2005.html#part1
Given these terms, I'd say we're getting verry close to achieving our short-term goals and are heading strongly towards our medium term goals.
Who's fault is it why we are behind in technology? GM is having a rough couple of months, doesn't count as shutting down? Airline industry is in a bine because of 9/11? Oh I love this qoute "the regular cinema attractions are rehashed crap", I will use it to question your last statement. Actually I can't find anyone that has statistical data of schools failing? They would have to have information from a Board of Education?YNKYH8R said:As a nation I believe that we are starting to fall into a “Killing is my business and business is good” type scenario. Auto manufactures are shutting down, the airline industry is in ruin, the regular cinema attractions are rehashed crap, sports are over hyped, education is in the toilet, and we’re behind the technological eight ball; so all that is left is war.
Agreed, except for the dart metaphor.War is the greatest export we have. The money made by dealing in oil and weapons manufacture is up a great deal. We live I a time and age where you can through a dart at a globe and there is “reason” for US troops to be there (all except home of course).
I actually know alot of people who have gone to war, and are continuing education? You on the other hand, just make bogus statements.This is what we do we make war. We tell a people to join to get an education and then send them off to die before they can learn. And if they survive then they have PTSD.
Good Idea!Bush wants to import immigrants to do the work the Americans don’t want; even going so far as to offering them citizenship in return. I say train them and send them overseas to fight our wars.
You contradict your first statement? "the regular cinema attractions are rehashed crap" WTF? What does cloning Job of the Hut, have to do with politics? Once again I state "How can their be inconsistancy in Entertainment"-Micheal MooreKind of a “Revenge of the Clones Thing”.
Auto manufactures are shutting down
oldreliable67 said:Either pretty selective memory or deliberately ignoring a large part of the auto industry...
Agreed, GM and Ford in trouble. But, they are not the whole industry. There are new billion dollar plants in existence or under construction in other parts of the country by the likes Hyundai, Nissan, Honda, BMW, Mercedes. Customers are voting with their wallets, and are willing to pay premiums (in the form of smaller rebates/incentives: about $1k for non-US mfgrs vs about $3500 for GM & F) for the perceived higher quality of other makes.
I don't know you tell me...stsburns said:Who's fault is it why we are behind in technology?
What?!? "Job of the Hut"? What are you talking about?stsburns said:You contradict your first statement? "the regular cinema attractions are rehashed crap" WTF? What does cloning Job of the Hut, have to do with politics? Once again I state "How can their be inconsistancy in Entertainment"-Micheal Moore
stsburns said:GM is having a rough couple of months, doesn't count as shutting down? Airline industry is in a bine because of 9/11? Oh I love this qoute "the regular cinema attractions are rehashed crap", I will use it to question your last statement. Actually I can't find anyone that has statistical data of schools failing? They would have to have information from a Board of Education?
Electronics manufacturers are not getting enough new exports from Japan, were most of our electronics in America come from. Hey did you know that Japan had picture phones in the early 1990's?YNKYH8R said:I don't know you tell me...
All of the clones in the movies, were cloned from Job of the Hut, which was an assassin. I was just being a Star Wars Geek for a moment.What?!? "Job of the Hut"? What are you talking about?
So you see immigrants as a useless group of people? I do agree with you that inlisting them would help with wars, and give them good paying jobs. But to say they would be a "disposable army" not only undermines war but also latinos.When I said an "Attack of the clones thing" I was refering to the idea of using immigrants to fight our wars for us, like a disposable army, like an army of clones, like the movie......follow?
12 plants? http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05326/610445.stmYNKYH8R said:GM is shutting down how many plants?
can't keep count, But either way layoffs do not matter. Layoffs happen all the time in corporations, its part of the disclamier sheet you have to sign to join the corp. They knew the risk when they took the job. Just because some news network says that GM is shutting down, doesn't mean they are.laying off woh many workers?
Yes, because people still feel unsafe flying.The airline industry ina bine because of 9/11....so it's still happening isn't it?
Ranting?What difference does it make for the cause? Job loss is job loss. Chapter 11 is chapter 11.
Have a source, or where you heard it from. Or is this a debate against P2P networks?Yes cinema attractions are rehashed crap, this summer the amount of money brought in by tickwet revenue and theater viewer ship was at it's lowest since 1995.
Actually schools are given money at the begining of the year, and schools have to preemptively guess how much it is going to cost to run the next year. Then the state government takes back money to pay to run other programs. Its strange but true. I heard it from the Carteret County Board of Educations Advisor.Schools failing...lack of teachers...lack of funding...funding cut...school shootings....debates on intellegent design....and there is probably more.
What are you touched? The clones weren’t cloned from Jengo Fett (Boba Fett’s Father) Job of the Hut? Who the hell is that? Jabba the Hutt maybe? He’s a notorious gangster within the Hutt clan.stsburns said:Electronics manufacturers are not getting enough new exports from Japan, were most of our electronics in America come from. Hey did you know that Japan had picture phones in the early 1990's?
All of the clones in the movies, were cloned from Job of the Hut, which was an assassin. I was just being a Star Wars Geek for a moment.
So you see immigrants as a useless group of people? I do agree with you that inlisting them would help with wars, and give them good paying jobs. But to say they would be a "disposable army" not only undermines war but also latinos.
:slapme: Nevermind....YNKYH8R said:What are you touched? The clones weren’t cloned from Jengo Fett (Boba Fett’s Father) Job of the Hut? Who the hell is that? Jabba the Hutt maybe? He’s a notorious gangster within the Hutt clan.
Well I guess I was wrong there isn't a damn thing wrong with this country.stsburns said:12 plants? http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05326/610445.stm
can't keep count, But either way layoffs do not matter. Layoffs happen all the time in corporations, its part of the disclamier sheet you have to sign to join the corp. They knew the risk when they took the job. Just because some news network says that GM is shutting down, doesn't mean they are.
Yes, because people still feel unsafe flying.
Ranting?
Have a source, or where you heard it from. Or is this a debate against P2P networks?
Actually schools are given money at the begining of the year, and schools have to preemptively guess how much it is going to cost to run the next year. Then the state government takes back money to pay to run other programs. Its strange but true. I heard it from the Carteret County Board of Educations Advisor.
Lack of teachers is because of school funding. Carteret County Board of Educations Advisor, said that schools love to hire new workers. Because its an easy $26,000 paycheck. It is easier to pay for someone who is new, than it is for someone who is over qualified.
School shootings hmm...children shoot other childern and teachers because they have had enough. They have enough being laughed at, pushed around, bullied, that they had the balls to take action against it.
Intellegent design will never be debated in schools because Atheism and Materialism has taken over our schools. Ex: Prom. Prom has to do with sex, pictures, expensive dating, none of which support intellegent design. Personally unless the Athiests somehow loose political power at our schools, is going to be the only intellegent design will ever be taught in public school, other than Christian clubs.
You forgot to mention that they're more reliable too. You don't have to trade them in because they'll break down after 100,000 miles.oldreliable67 said:Yep, and it is no accident that the car companies that are doing well in the US are those that have 1) a significantly less proportion of unionized work force, 2) have a high perceived level of quality among American consumers (as evidenced by their JD Power rankings over the last 10 years), 3) are located outside of the midwest (mostly in the south and southeast) in lower wage areas, and 4) have a history of innovative products that appeal to US consumers and have introduced those products on a much more timely basis than US mfgrs.
I was being fecicious.stsburns said:So you see immigrants as a useless group of people? I do agree with you that inlisting them would help with wars, and give them good paying jobs. But to say they would be a "disposable army" not only undermines war but also latinos.
.../sarcasm?YNKYH8R said:Well I guess I was wrong there isn't a damn thing wrong with this country.
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