• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

What is a good punishment?

What is a good punishment for mothers who kill their unborn babies?

  • A large fine.

    Votes: 1 12.5%
  • A small fine.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A short prison sentence: 90 days - 5 years.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • A long prison sentence: 5 years or more.

    Votes: 5 62.5%
  • No punishment for mothers. It should be illegal just because.

    Votes: 2 25.0%

  • Total voters
    8
  • Poll closed .

vasuderatorrent

Banned
DP Veteran
Joined
Oct 12, 2013
Messages
6,112
Reaction score
987
Location
(none)
Gender
Undisclosed
Political Leaning
Communist
What is a good punishment for a woman who kills her unborn baby? This is not for the doctors who perform the abortion. This is for the mothers who make the decision to kill the baby.

Assume she is charged with murder, she is convicted and the judge must adminster the sentence. What should the law be for these selfish women?

What should the punishment be for a woman who kills her unborn baby?
 
What is a good punishment for a woman who kills her unborn baby? This is not for the doctors who perform the abortion. This is for the mothers who make the decision to kill the baby.

Assume she is charged with murder, she is convicted and the judge must adminster the sentence. What should the law be for these selfish women?

What should the punishment be for a woman who kills her unborn baby?

Let me see. You say the charge is murder. That must mean the kid was almost ready to be born. That again would mean there was not much difference between doing it now or in two or three weeks.
Didn't that Dr Monster go to jail for ever for that?

But, I guess, if you are going to allow kids to be gotten rid of, you might as well define the law so that every mother con do it, when she likes. That way there is no hurry.
 
I would say a combination of both - fine and prison sentence.
And a large fine, I must say. Whether for first time or repeat offenders.

The most common justification aborting mothers use is that they cannot raise the child (and usually that translates to, "it will cost me.") Therefore, let it cost heftily to premeditatedly kill a defenseless baby whose existence in the first place, was SOLELY due to his mother. Of course I'm talking about consenting women here.

With all the educational support, not to mention the various available pills and gadgets to prevent conception, there is no one to blame except that of the woman whose body had managed to produce a child. You can't even blame her partner, since it's HER BODY, therefore she has the authority over what goes into that body. It's supposed to be her body, her choice! Isn't that the mantra? Well, learn to accept and live with the consequence of your choice!

Why should society as a whole be coerced to become party to the killing of innocents?
Why should society go back to becoming barbaric after all the supposedly advanced technology we now have? For what? For these women?


As for first time offenders, prison sentence can be light. But repeat offenders should get the longer sentences.

The punishment is more meant to show young girls out there that it will surely cost you to kill your baby, therefore smarten up and don't get pregnant if you don't want to. There's a reason why you've got a brain. Use it.
 
Last edited:
So you're saying that women who are pregnant and want to terminate their pregnancies should be punished... I say that's a very illogical position to take. Abortions should be legal without any repercussions to anyone.

And by abortions I mean first term (or whatever it's called) abortions. I don't really support abortions in the 8th month of pregnancy for instance, unless there are extraordinary circumstances in play.
 
What is a good punishment for a woman who kills her unborn baby? This is not for the doctors who perform the abortion. This is for the mothers who make the decision to kill the baby.

Assume she is charged with murder, she is convicted and the judge must adminster the sentence. What should the law be for these selfish women?

What should the punishment be for a woman who kills her unborn baby?
It is, obviously, premeditated murder. Once they start enforcing such a law the deterrent effect will be for females, young and old, to start thinking a bit more about what they are doing, who it is they are actually opening themselves up to and whether that is a good long term decision.

This will have the ancillary effect of making females less jaded, more focused on what they truly want instead of the fleeting, will make men think a lot more as well and will probably lead to richer long term relationships. Not a panacea, but improvements in this area are needed... oh, and it would most certainly help the children in almost all cases.

Perhaps we could set up special incarceration facilities for these ladies in which, as part of their restitution to society, they administer the day care for all those choosing to continue life and to continue with their own now busier lives [ continuing in school, working daily, etc...].

Win-win.
 
Epically facile thread is epically facile.
 
They should be punished by only receiving a fraction of the money the government would have used to subsidize the unwanted child. Instead of the tens of thousands that would have gone towards tax credits, schools, welfare, police and prisons, they should only get a small, one time subsidy.
 
Abortions within the paraders of Roe vs Wade should not be illegal.
First trimester abortions should be between a women and her doctor and should not be impaired by state laws.
 
We should force and fund histerectomy for all women who get abortions! That way, no repeat offenders!!!!!
 
A tax credit for making the socially responsible choice of not bringing in more children into the world?
 
What is a good punishment for a woman who kills her unborn baby? This is not for the doctors who perform the abortion. This is for the mothers who make the decision to kill the baby.

Assume she is charged with murder, she is convicted and the judge must adminster the sentence. What should the law be for these selfish women?

What should the punishment be for a woman who kills her unborn baby?


If you believe that "all men are created equal" means that governments should treat every human equally, as I most certainly do...

And you believe that governments are made by people for the express purpose of protecting our human rights from aggression, as I most certainly do...



Then the age of the victim should not matter in the prosecution.

A hires B to kill C. A and B are equally guilty of the act, and that act is a premeditated and aggressive homicide, a violation of the human right to life of C.

In all cases except for abortion, if caught, both A and B are charged with the most severe degree of murder available in the criminal jurisdiction; the sentence would be life in prison or execution.

That is inequality, and it should be corrected. The age of the victim should not matter.
 
They should be punished by only receiving a fraction of the money the government would have used to subsidize the unwanted child. Instead of the tens of thousands that would have gone towards tax credits, schools, welfare, police and prisons, they should only get a small, one time subsidy.

Brutal
 
I don't really support abortions in the 8th month of pregnancy

What should be the punishment for the women who perform abortions in the 8th or 9th month? Remember: Not the doctors but the mother performing the abortion.
 
What is a good punishment for a woman who kills her unborn baby? This is not for the doctors who perform the abortion. This is for the mothers who make the decision to kill the baby.

Assume she is charged with murder, she is convicted and the judge must adminster the sentence. What should the law be for these selfish women?

What should the punishment be for a woman who kills her unborn baby?

I voted for the long sentence, with the caveat that we assume this is to occur at a time when the practice of elective abortion has been made clearly illegal. Right Wingers will generally know, but for the benefit of the slower students, laws in civilized countries are almost never allowed to penalize behavior that was legal at the time of commission.

But, if we can execute drug addicts for murdering unhealthy people in their late 80's thereby depriving the victim of a very small pert of their life, we can certainly give stiff sentences to people who deprive a human being of almost all of theirs.
 
What should be the punishment for the women who perform abortions in the 8th or 9th month? Remember: Not the doctors but the mother performing the abortion.

Well depends on the circumstances.
Let's look at it logically shall we and with facts in our hands, not just stupid chatter.
How your baby's growing - BabyCentre

So as I said in all comments related to abortion rights and so on, the logical way to go about it is not to chain women to a pregnancy they don't want. What does that mean?

Well the brain starts to form at around the 10 week mark if I'm not mistaken. But let's say that. So that's 2months and a half in.
You can have an ultrasound that sees if your baby suffers from birth defects like down syndrome at around 13 weeks, which is 3 months and 1 week in.
At 18 weeks you can check if the baby is developing properly right and it is the first time blood vessels actually form in the brain. So this is 4 months and 2 weeks in.
And at 21 weeks you can already know if it's a boy or a girl.
And at 23 weeks you can already put Mozart on so that the kid will be smart.
So basically, up until this point, the 24 week mark(6 months), I think that abortion should be legal, no questions asked. If anyone wants to have an abortion, then that's fine.

After 24 weeks it should be done only under special circumstances -> the mothers' life is in danger, she can't handle the pregnancy or the birth. The child is found with pre-natal diseases or defects (yes, you can scan for these earlier but not everyone goes to the doctor at the right time, due to time or financial reasons but nobody should be forced to raise a child that has such issues because it can lead to a whole lot of other problems) etc. But without such special circumstances in play, abortion should be illegal. So you can't go after 24 or 25 weeks, let the lawmakers bicker about it, and just get it done no questions asked. There needs to be a medical consensus and approval that special circumstances are in play.

So to answer your question:

What should the punishment be for a women who has done an abortion that had no extraordinary circumstances in play, so she just did it on the "black market" as it were? Probably a large fine and/or maybe up to 1 year in prison. Chances are if she wanted to get rid of the fetus so much she really wouldn't have been a good mother to begin with and the child would have a miserable life. But if there were extraordinary circumstances in play, no punishment. It's her right.
We need to also start considering quality of life of those who are alive and those who are yet to be born. Now there is a lot to be said on this particular topic but let's leave it at this for now.

EDIT:
If we were to live in a perfect society that had full health insurance and full health coverage on demand, where every woman could go for free and get all medical services regarding her child's development, I'd be down for a 18-20 week abortion law. So you can get an abortion up until 18-20 weeks no questions asked and then, from that period onwards, only in the situation when the mothers' life is in danger.
But we don't. We don't live in a perfect world so yeah... 24 week mark abortion law is the way to go.

Alternatively. If through scientific development there would be a way that all the things like gestation age and hazards to the mother or birth defects, could be identified within the first few weeks after conception, and again, full health coverage and every mother could go and get all the medical services she needs or wants, then I'd be down for a reduction in the abortion law too. So say, if all the things doctors can find just after 3 months, they can now find it within the first 3 months, go for it, abortion law set to the first 3 months. If earlier, than earlier. But if we don't have the technology to anticipate all sort of problems, then the law needs to comply with the current technological advancements.
 
Last edited:
Let's look at it logically shall we and with facts in our hands, not just stupid chatter.

This is a clue that you will not listen to anything that is ever said. Am I right? You automatically win every argument by using the words fact, rights, proof and evidence.

I SURRENDER. EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS TRUE, AGENTJ :surrender
 
What is a good punishment for mothers who have abortions?
The same punishment for any one who may kill a few of their own body cells any other way... plucking eyebrows, having a mole removed, taking a shower, brushing their teeth, etc...
None.
A zygote is not a baby.
To say so is retarded.
 
What is a good punishment for mothers who have abortions?
The same punishment for any one who may kill a few of their own body cells any other way... plucking eyebrows, having a mole removed, taking a shower, brushing their teeth, etc...
None.
A zygote is not a baby.
To say so is retarded.
And yet, it is an individual human being.
 
This is a clue that you will not listen to anything that is ever said. Am I right? You automatically win every argument by using the words fact, rights, proof and evidence.

I SURRENDER. EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS TRUE, AGENTJ :surrender

No, I don't "win" by using the words facts and proof and rights. I brought facts and proof and data from a medical center, so you can verify all that from the link or any other link, and make a case based on those things.

Don't you understand that laws need to reflect factual data and analysis. You can't make a law that with it's enforcement, you do more harm than good.

Let me give you an example to justify what I am saying.
If you pass a law that says that if you park in a place that isn't reserved for parking, your car will be towed and you go to prison for 2 years and pay a fine. So make it brutal, just brutal, because you don't want people parking in places that can impede circulaton. And you also put in place CCTV cameras and such to enforce the law.
If you go that way, you better make sure that you also create the means by which citizens can respect the law. You can't just pass that law and have no parking spaces put in place. You need to put parking spaces or parking lots or parking buildings right, everywhere where they are needed. You need a smart construction plan and make it so that everyone can park within a reasonable distance of where they have to go. But if you just pass that law and then put 1 parking lot with 20 lots every, I don't know, 5 sq miles, and say that if you park anywhere else you're ****ed, then you will just put a lot of people in prison.

So the rule of thumb is: make a law and give the tools and the ability for people to willingly follow that law. Otherwise, you do more harm than good.

same with abortion. You want to be stringent about abortion law? fine, make sure that you put in place the mechanism for people to never have to break the law unless they purposefully aim to do so. So make sure that every woman with child has complete access to all medical services and all services she needs to have a healthy child and a safe birth. Make sure that if the child has a birth defect, she will be provided for so that it's not extra burden on her and the family. Make sure there are no ill-conceived children from rapes or teenage precarity-> like give free birth controls to people and within easy access and have a policeman at every 100m to stop rapists. Do all that, and you can have your stringent abortion laws. You want to just pass a law and the world be damned? Then that's stupid and illogical and will do more harm than good.
 
Sorry but no ... a zygote is a type of cell formation. Not a a human being.

Please review your biology texts.

Besides, who gives you the right to decide which human organism is a human being? You do know don't you, that some other self aggrandizing people are perfectly willing to exclude from the definition people of the wrong color, age, gender or race, yes?

Do you proceed from a mechanist view of Humanity, that is do you see us as simply biological machines? And if shouldn't society be able to determine which machines to turn off for anty reason that seems good to it?
 
Can I have a zygote? It sounds like a really cool pet. Is a zygote sort of like a real goat?
The real answer is no.
Only a woman can harbor a zygote cell formation.
You are confined to only "having "a gamete cell.

BTW here is the definition of "facile" that you thought was a "Latin " word.
fac·ile
ˈfasəl/
adjective
1.
(esp. of a theory or argument) appearing neat and comprehensive only by ignoring the true complexities of an issue; superficial.
synonyms: simplistic, superficial, oversimplified; More
"Epically facile " is actually a fair description of this poll and thread.

Calling fetal abortions, killing babies, is just like saying that squirrels ingest oak trees because they eat acorns. It is neither an intelligent, nor realistic, assessment of what actually occurs.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom