What In The Human Species Necessitates a God?

Paralogic said:

Only ten years ago, the multiverse idea was a laughing stock in scientific circles.

In any case, if multiverses exist, they do follow physics laws, either ours or other laws that do adhere to mathematical reason.

There is no reality based scenario that any supernatural entities, as gods, may exist. We know gods are the imaginary creation of the human mind, and we know that humans are irrelevant to the universe.

We know there are no gods.

Click to expand...

"with its own physical properties" what part of that statement you did not understand so you can beleive in multiple universe but a god or gods is extremly far fetch and what about black matter black holes white holes and that certain stars with just a spoon full of their matter is tons.

Since faith is so popular (sorry I can't think of a better term right now) it simply cannot be brushed under the carpet. I have been to church as a child perhaps five times and every time I felt out of place but I never scorned those that attended regularly because I simply have no answer. Because I will not listen to another person preach God does not prove there is no God. Those that argue against God are really arguieing against the definition or interpretation of God put forth by man. Frankly, the more I study the science of the universe I feel more and more complelled to believe in a creator of some kind. If one choses to define this creator as God so be it for that person. No one human knows what happened when whatever this is started. We do not know how, or why or even when exactly. So logically (I love that word), how can anyone claim to know the single truth? This thing we call "creation" is beyond our ability to grasp as a whole. We dont even know where it is going or where it is taking us. We live in the dark so we adopt theories, some religion and some stricly science and neither has yet to hold up to be the answer we all seek and most likely never will.
"The greatest trick the devil ever played is convincing people he does not exist."

Un biased said:

"with its own physical properties" what part of that statement you did not understand so you can beleive in multiple universe but a god or gods is extremly far fetch and what about black matter black holes white holes and that certain stars with just a spoon full of their matter is tons.

Click to expand...

Blacks holes? Known to exist. There's images out there from observatories. White holes? Logical conclusions due to black holes and the Einstein-Cartan minimal union between torsion tensors and Dirac spinors. This action would yield a repulsive spin that's quite significant in the highly-dense area. The matter that has passed the event horizon reaches a huge density and then rebounds, forming a ER bridge. The other side of the bridge (yes there are two sides) becomes a baby universe. This also becomes the idea that the Big Bang was simply a "Big Bounce."

Your spoonful of star weighing tons? You mean a neutron star and that thing called "density?" You realize weight is a gravity-dependent quantity, right? A neutron star's gravity is extraordinarily high.

mak2 said:

Maybe you ought to rethink this line of attack.

Click to expand...

Ehhh... no. I don't particularly feel like discussing whether or not god exists right now, but I do feel the need to stick up for the scientific method.

Affirmative assertions require evidence. You do not need to prove that something doesn't exist. You do need to prove that it does. I could assert that you are actually made of pudding. But there would be no reason to give credence to that assertion without evidence. I can't prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist, but there's no evidence that it does, so I can safely make decisions while relying on the idea that doesn't. Also, absence of evidence really is evidence of absence. There are no dodos around anymore. We know this not because there was a general memo from the Earth that dodos were now gone, but because there were dodos and now no longer are. There is no evidence that dodos are gone, but no evidence that they are still here. We conclude that dodos are extinct. We concluded the same about coelacanths, too, until evidence disproved that conclusion.

We conclude that Zeus and Ares don't exist because we climbed Mt. Olympus and no one was there. There is no physical evidence that leads to the conclusion "because this exists, Ares cannot", but a lack of evidence for Ares leads us to conclude that he doesn't exist.

So, no. There is nothing fallacious about the conclusion that god doesn't exist in the absence of evidence to support his existence. And the statement "god exists" does not require the same proof as "god doesn't exist." The former requires that evidence be discovered that can only be there due to the existence of god, whereas the latter merely requires showing that the evidence for the former is not genuine.

Let's take the Shroud of Turin as an example. It was put forth as evidence for the crucifixion of Jesus. Does this prove anything, though? It is merely a shroud that looks to be imprinted with the outline of a crucified man. Does it really demonstrate which man? Was it discovered in a tomb marked "Jesus of Nazareth"? No. All it really shows is that men were crucified, which we all already know. That the shroud was later tested and shown to only be about 700 or 800 years old further disqualifies it as evidence for any spiritual claims.

Your original post about god was actually a nonsequitor. This thread is asking about what in the human psyche would cause us to imagine gods. Its premise requires that god not exist. Unless you have evidence of a natural god radar in the human mind, the existence of god has no bearing on why humans would invent one. We are banned from asserting the nonexistence of god in religious forum threads. How about you show us the same respect and not derail this one any more than you have?

This was interesting...

Is Believing In God Evolutionarily Advantageous? : NPR

rhinefire said:

What In The Human Species Necessitates a God?

Click to expand...

That God created us, and we wouldn't exist if he hadn't, might have something to do with it.

What In The Human Species Necessitates a God?

Hope.

grip said:

What In The Human Species Necessitates a God?

Hope.

Click to expand...

Evidence for this?

rhinefire said:

Let's go back in time to the day when mankind first became capable of reason. I cannot help but believe hunger, dispair, fear and ignorance of the surroundings naturally made man look to a God like idea in order to ease the suffering. Why doesn't man simply say, "life sucks but it's all we got". Instead he says, "oh no, this life isn't the one that's really important, it's the life after this one that gonna count"! He creates symbols them calls them God of water, God of light, God of food, etc. He is basically at a loss about how to express his "idea" until...... a person comes along with the gift of gab. Then and only then do folks listen and follow. They follow not so much for the substance of what is being said rather for a sense of hope the speaker tells them about. People with hope are naturally happier than folks with none therefore this idea grows. Who wants to be with a depressed person?! Then there is the good feeling bonding with others gives us so that too perpetuates this thing until there are millions world wide willing to die and kill to keep this thing in motion. I wonder from time to time how many Gods has man created throughout history. Some have come and gone while others remain.

Click to expand...

Not all humans or even religions believe in god or gods. Buddhist follow a man and his teachings about the 4 noble truths and the 8 fold path to enlightenment. No god. The Chinese Confucianism was ethical teaching, again no god. The same with taoism, no god. A couple of tribes I worked with in Laos worshiped ancestors, asking for their protection, still no god. So it is not necessary for the human species to have or worship gods. But a god of this or that especially in the early years of mankind helped explain a lot of stuff the humans at that time didn't or couldn't understand.

rhinefire said:

Let's go back in time to the day when mankind first became capable of reason. I cannot help but believe hunger, dispair, fear and ignorance of the surroundings naturally made man look to a God like idea in order to ease the suffering. Why doesn't man simply say, "life sucks but it's all we got". Instead he says, "oh no, this life isn't the one that's really important, it's the life after this one that gonna count"! He creates symbols them calls them God of water, God of light, God of food, etc. He is basically at a loss about how to express his "idea" until...... a person comes along with the gift of gab. Then and only then do folks listen and follow. They follow not so much for the substance of what is being said rather for a sense of hope the speaker tells them about. People with hope are naturally happier than folks with none therefore this idea grows. Who wants to be with a depressed person?! Then there is the good feeling bonding with others gives us so that too perpetuates this thing until there are millions world wide willing to die and kill to keep this thing in motion. I wonder from time to time how many Gods has man created throughout history. Some have come and gone while others remain.

Click to expand...

Intelligence and curiosity.

Tiger's got to hunt
Bird's got to fly
Man got to sit and wonder why why why
Tiger got to sleep
Bird got to land
Man got to tell himself he understand


Religion and gods are a natural repercussion of intelligence and curiosity in a system where all the answers are not known.

Idols can take the place of gods too. Many people who aren't religious idolize material things, money, people, etc.... I think we all have our things that keep our hope alive.

Perotista said:

Not all humans or even religions believe in god or gods. Buddhist follow a man and his teachings about the 4 noble truths and the 8 fold path to enlightenment. No god. The Chinese Confucianism was ethical teaching, again no god. The same with taoism, no god. A couple of tribes I worked with in Laos worshiped ancestors, asking for their protection, still no god. So it is not necessary for the human species to have or worship gods. But a god of this or that especially in the early years of mankind helped explain a lot of stuff the humans at that time didn't or couldn't understand.

Click to expand...

How do you know there are no gods?

Paralogic said:

Only ten years ago, the multiverse idea was a laughing stock in scientific circles.

In any case, if multiverses exist, they do follow physics laws, either ours or other laws that do adhere to mathematical reason.

There is no reality based scenario that any supernatural entities, as gods, may exist. We know gods are the imaginary creation of the human mind, and we know that humans are irrelevant to the universe.

We know there are no gods.

Click to expand...

Well gee, has science ever been wrong?

Paralogic said:

Why would anyone want to "fight science" ? Science is a method to reveal reality and truth. Why would anyone want to "fight" it? Only the religious would.

Click to expand...

JC Callender said:

Idols can take the place of gods too. Many people who aren't religious idolize material things, money, people, etc.... I think we all have our things that keep our hope alive.

Click to expand...

That is a very good point. The U.S. has became a nation that idolizes commercialism and keeping up with the Jones.

JC Callender said:

How do you know there are no gods?

Click to expand...

The only way to be certain is to die. And the dead do not talk.

zgoldsmith23 said:

Evidence for this?

Click to expand...

That is literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

hope
/hōp/
Noun
A feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.


Get a clue.

If you don't believe in a higher power you have a hole that needs filling. Be careful what you fill it with.

Believing in a higher power makes a hole for your intellect to leak through. (See how that works?)

grip said:

That is literally the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

hope
/hōp/
Noun
A feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.


Get a clue.

Click to expand...

I wasn't aware a definition was evidence. Hmm. I guess unicorns, leprechauns, and "gods" all exist, then.

sawyerloggingon said:

If you don't believe in a higher power you have a hole that needs filling. Be careful what you fill it with.

Click to expand...

Weird. I am completely unaware of this supposed hole. Even IF there was some hole that is in need of filling, there is no way that unsubstantiated fluff would be able to fill it for me. Believing in a higher power would create an overriding gnawing feeling that I was deceiving myself.

So why is that I should fill an imperceptible hole with imperceptible fluff? It really does not matter, this is rhetorical, I could not do it even if I tried - my mind simply would not let me.

Manc Skipper said:

Believing in a higher power makes a hole for your intellect to leak through. (See how that works?)

Click to expand...

It also gives you the power of positive thinking, or iow, gives you an advantage, as mind and will can overcome obstacles that otherwise seem unsurmountable. (See how that works? )

marduc said:

Weird. I am completely unaware of this supposed hole. Even IF there was some hole that is in need of filling, there is no way that unsubstantiated fluff would be able to fill it for me. Believing in a higher power would create an overriding gnawing feeling that I was deceiving myself.

So why is that I should fill an imperceptible hole with imperceptible fluff? It really does not matter, this is rhetorical, I could not do it even if I tried - my mind simply would not let me.

Click to expand...

We are designed with a hole wear God is supposed to go and nature abhors a vacuum. You have filled that hole with something, ask yourself what.

rhinefire said:

Let's go back in time to the day when mankind first became capable of reason. I cannot help but believe hunger, dispair, fear and ignorance of the surroundings naturally made man look to a God like idea in order to ease the suffering. Why doesn't man simply say, "life sucks but it's all we got". Instead he says, "oh no, this life isn't the one that's really important, it's the life after this one that gonna count"! He creates symbols them calls them God of water, God of light, God of food, etc. He is basically at a loss about how to express his "idea" until...... a person comes along with the gift of gab. Then and only then do folks listen and follow.

Click to expand...

I think you are discounting the human propensity for creativity, intuition, and awareness of concepts other than the physical and concrete. Iow, I don't think it requires a group to listen and follow, to believe that something exists outside of our five senses. Did man create God? I can't say with certainty, but I can say that I believe there's more than meets the eye. If I'm wrong, it doesn't hurt a thing.

zgoldsmith23 said:

I wasn't aware a definition was evidence. Hmm. I guess unicorns, leprechauns, and "gods" all exist, then.

Click to expand...

Most religions are called faith. If faith in god helps one to become a better person, I have no problem with it. I do not think anyone else should either. There are enough evil and bad people in this world, we do not need to take something away from someone that helps them lead a good life.

sawyerloggingon said:

We are designed with a hole wear God is supposed to go and nature abhors a vacuum. You have filled that hole with something, ask yourself what.

Click to expand...

LOL. that is all