What Happens If There's No Counter-Protest?

[Dragonfly]

What about a counter-protest along these lines:

 

[blackjack50]

What about a counter-protest along these lines:

I ducking love that!!!! Genius! And it would work. Countering anger with a blank face.

The crowd is not the sum of its parts.

I am a republican who did not vote for Trump (Or Hillary).

 

[Mason66]

Suppose the worst, most vile and hated "lawful assembly" you've ever heard of is coming to a town near you.
You're incensed and disgusted by the mere thought of the people who would actually support such hideous thoughts and ideologies.
That they have enough "power" to hold a public demonstration, and get legal protection to do so makes your blood boil.
At least 1000 people are projected to attend this protest.

Now, suppose this:

There are absolutely no counter-protesters anywhere. None.

What would that signify? What would it accomplish? What might it condone?

Does the size of the counter-protest mean something?

Would it actually send a stronger message if there was no counter-protest at all?

If the entire event was ignored, would that be the best "counter-punch" to those who would attend?

What's a bigger thrill for the original protesters? Silence, or a loud and extreme counter-protest?

If there was no counter protest Grandpa Simpson would yell at the sky and then everybody would go home just to be forgotten about the next day.

The counter protestors insure the media will pick up the story and people will be talking about it for weeks.

 

[Mason66]

But there are those who say if you ignore something awful, and you allow it to happen unabated, your silence is in some way condoning that behavior.

Is there some truth to that theory?

What do you mean "to happen"?

What is happening that needs to be stopped?

 

[Mason66]

I think that their recruitment numbers would quadruple.

I want people in this country to understand that joining/parading with a vile group means to fear for their lives.

Who gets to decide who is a vile group?

Should other groups be attacked because other people think they are vile?

 

[SheWolf]

Well, these white nationalists do these kinds of provocative demonstrations in order to get reactions out of people (hence the word 'provocative'). If people just paid them no mind, and ignored them entirely, maybe we'd see less of these demonstrations take place.

They got a lot of attention from Charlottesville, and they have not replicated it since then. They were supposed to have several more rallies, but they appeared to not have went through with it.

I don't see any evidence that supports your argument.

 

[SheWolf]

The extremists, of whatever stripe, feed off reaction, controversy, and opposition.... the bigger and louder the better. It gives them attention and something to push against.


If they marched through empty streets to the sound of crickets, utterly ignored, that would be more disheartening than any counter-protest to them. It would say to them "you don't matter; we do not fear you."


And if there were no counter protest, the nation would not fall to a Brownshirt Coup.... the extremists don't have the numbers or organization for that.

Freedom of speech means were are going to have to have extremists speaking freely, protesting, and counter protesting. I don't feel comfortable telling anybody to ignore somebody else.

I am also not convinced by the argument that they will go away if not given any attention... and when an element is dangerous, that is an entirely different issue. Look at terrorism and 9/11. If we just ignored Bin Laden, it wouldn't have changed anything.

 

[SheWolf]

You would think more Americans would understand this. I wonder if some of us just like the confrontation so they can get so excitement into their lives. Me I have enough excitement to last several lifetimes. I have discovered the joy that is watching paint dry. Boring is good. Excitement means something or somebody, ****ed up and that's just bad mojo.

***trigger warning****

I am constantly saying this, but Antifa and white nationalism doesn't personally threaten many Americans (especially if you're white). Some other people actually do feel a threat. And based on my experience with talking to a lot of posters on this website, I think it's easy for a lot of people to ignore the situation entirely including the minorities involved, because none of it affects "you" (generic, you).

If you're not a racial minority, a religious minority, and/or an immigrant, then it's easy for you to ignore that group of people. You're not one of them. You're not being threatened, so why worry about? Why get emotional about white nationalist rhetoric or inflammatory political language?

If you're not a white nationalist, then no reason to worry about Antifa either.

If you're not Antifa, then you're golden. You're 0 of 3. It's very easy to suggest others ignore it all.

For some Americans, seeing Charlottesville, seeing neo nazis marching in the streets of America and the surrounding violence... that was very emotional and concerning. A lot of things in the political discourse is concerning for several groups of minorities in this country, and that is something that is often ignored on top of all of everything else.

 

[SheWolf]

I would never even consider attending. They merely want attention. We shouldn't give them the time of day. Charlottesville was a victory for them.

Violence aside, it was a victory for free speech and for America. The constitution gives everybody the right to protest and count protest, including people with the most offensive of speech.

As an immigrant and somebody who didn't have free speech before, I am actually kind of sad that any American can view protesting and counter protesting in such a way. If nobody is involved, active, or exercising their free speech because they want to ignore each other, then what is First Amendment worth anymore? Seeing people active, means

1. they care about their country, and
2. they are free.

 

[RAMOSS]

Violence aside, it was a victory for free speech and for America. The constitution gives everybody the right to protest and count protest, including people with the most offensive of speech.

As an immigrant and somebody who didn't have free speech before, I am actually kind of sad that any American can view protesting and counter protesting in such a way. If nobody is involved, active, or exercising their free speech because they want to ignore each other, then what is First Amendment worth anymore? Seeing people active, means

1. they care about their country, and
2. they are free.

One of the things that the protesters did was they marched in front of a synagogue, and then there were two ''Marchers' with rifles posted across the street from it for a while. With that and 'Jews will not replace us', and the chanting of 'blood and soil' (a nazi chant), you can be sure they were significantly concerned.

Here is the background on the chant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_and_Soil

and here is the Nationalist marchers in Charlottsville



If you look at the chant and history from the viewpoint of people who have had relatives killed in the concentration camps, and had people who did this stand outside their place of worship with rifles.. you can see why they are concerns.

Now, anti-fa claims to be fighting that, and 'protecting' others. I don't buy that rhetoric, but when you compare that with the nationalist marching, no.. they are not equivalent. Anti-fa is a bunch of spoiled brats who are using an excuse to be destructive. These people are glorifying those who killed millions based on their religion.

A couple of black churches went through something similar too. They should be equally concerned.

 

[SheWolf]

I'd say that depends on the exact circumstances.

Yes, there is a time to "take to the streets" on one manner or another, and to act against some great wrong that is being perpetrated. Perhaps even to the degree of doing things that, in normal circumstances, would be very dubious.

However, this is (IMO) not that time, nor that cause. White supremacy is a dinky and dying group with little power. Those who imagine Trump as Hitler and the Republic as one small step away from flying the Swastika over the White House are being hysterical.... we are no where near that point.


And even if we were, simply engaging in counter-protests would be entirely inadequate to save the Republic from such a fate, if it were in such peril.

You say "take to the streets" as if you're talking about violence.

I have talked about neo nazi rallies for years on this site. I have seen many of them in Europe. Violence does not have to occur. Counter protesting doesn't really mean going out and looking for a fight. No side has to be violent to exercise their free speech, and, from what I have seen, it's not that hard to accomplish if police keep order and peace and protestors are willing to be peaceful.

Literally, cops are dispatched to protect the lives of neo nazis.

 

[SheWolf]

Hitler is dead.


Probably around 99% of Americans would rather saw off their right arm with a spoon that be seen carrying a Nazi flag, or wearing a KKK burka, or being perceived as supporting same.


There is no imminent Brownshirt coup, and if there were mere counter-protests would not stop it.

Same could be said about Stalin and communism, but a lot of Americans seem to talk about commies like a boogy man.

The average American today wouldn't fly either flag.

 

[SheWolf]

Absolutely the best thing to do is IGNORE them. Or at the very least go have your counter protest somewhere else to draw some of the attention away from them.

I have seen police form a shield around neo nazis in Germany. It worked in many ways to keep peace and prevent violence.

 

[SheWolf]

What is the "best way to beat them", in your opinion?

Straight up confrontation is not going to work.
In fact, that's what "they" want. Right?

Simply exercising your freedom of speech.

I always stand up for myself and state my opinion. If I don't stand up for myself, I feel like a bully's punching bag. :lol:

 

[d0gbreath]

Who gets to decide who is a vile group?

Should other groups be attacked because other people think they are vile?

I'm the decider.

Other people have to clear the vileness with me.

 

[SheWolf]

Ya gotta admit...if the protesters came and nobody was there to counter...no media, no recognition, no nothin'...well there would be nothin' to report...

There are a lot of pro life rallies that go unnoticed, but that one march on DC gets a lot of attention. It doesn't mean that pro lifers are a meaningless minority group with no influence in America though. Certain groups of people like neo nazis like marching and rallying, because they use it as a means to agitate and upset people. That's what the march on Solkie was all about. Neo nazis picked that community because it was a large community of Holocaust survivors. We can't expect Holocaust survivors to ignore neo nazi marches, can we?

I personally can't ignore Holocaust survivors being treated like that by neo nazis in America.

 

[SheWolf]

Anyone who resorts to violence:

left
right
center
gay
straight
male
female
AntiFa
Neo-Nazi
Transgender
Transexual
Alien
Black
White
Brown
Purple

is not only a complete a-hole, but should be punished to the full extent of the law.

Purple people... as in corpses and zombies... I am going to use violence on them for sure. :mrgreen:

 

[SheWolf]

What about a counter-protest along these lines:

We should all want non violent protesting. Protesting and being active in the process is a good thing. Violence is bad. This thread worries me, because I don't think feeling alienated from protesting or exercising our free speech is a good value for Americans to adopt.

 

[zyzygy]

What about a counter-protest along these lines:

New? Mahatma Gandhi comes to mind.