What happens after death?

[code1211]

So god/heaven/hell/eternal life is fiction? Is that what you’re saying?

Not at all.

I'm saying that the ideas of these things are all "a thing".

 

[EnigmaO01]

So, you think the dead are conscious of nothing is a myth...got it...

I have no idea what you're babbling about. I thought I was quite clear.

 

[Aletheia]

If you are of old age and have dementia, your brain is in a constant state of fog. You can barely comprehend anything.
What interests me, is what state would you be in, in the afterlife? Would you be renewed to your sharper state, when you were younger? Then you would be a completely different person.
Would you be happily sitting around barely comprehending anything?

 

[calamity]

If you are of old age and have dementia, your brain is in a constant state of fog. You can barely comprehend anything.
What interests me, is what state would you be in, in the afterlife? Would you be renewed to your sharper state, when you were younger? Then you would be a completely different person.
Would you be happily sitting around barely comprehending anything?

When I dream, I’m about 27, and all the girls I screw look to be about 18, even the ones who were already dead by the time I reached 27.

 

[Daisy]

If you are of old age and have dementia, your brain is in a constant state of fog. You can barely comprehend anything.
What interests me, is what state would you be in, in the afterlife? Would you be renewed to your sharper state, when you were younger? Then you would be a completely different person.
Would you be happily sitting around barely comprehending anything?

After the resurrection, we will return to our youth, which God purposed from the beginning...we were not created to grow old and die...

"Let his flesh become fresher than in youth;
Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor.’" Job 33:25

3 He forgives all your errors
And heals all your ailments;

4 He reclaims your life from the pit
And crowns you with his loyal love and mercy.

5 He satisfies you with good things+ all your life,
So that your youth is renewed like that of an eagle." Psalm 103

 

[tosca1]

After the resurrection, we will return to our youth, which God purposed from the beginning...we were not created to grow old and die...

"Let his flesh become fresher than in youth;
Let him return to the days of his youthful vigor.’" Job 33:25

It doesn't actually say that we will be returned to our youth.
It is the assumed prayer of a gracious angel beseeching God for the man.

Here is the context of that verse:


Job 33
23 Yet if there is an angel at their side,
a messenger, one out of a thousand,
sent to tell them how to be upright,
24 and he is gracious to that person and says to God,
‘Spare them from going down to the pit;
I have found a ransom for them—
25 let their flesh be renewed like a child’s;
let them be restored as in the days of their youth’—

26 then that person can pray to God and find favor with him,
they will see God’s face and shout for joy;
he will restore them to full well-being.




1 Corinthians 15

The Resurrection Body​

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.


42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

 

[Daisy]

It doesn't actually say that we will be returned to our youth.

Here is the context of that verse:


Job 33
23 Yet if there is an angel at their side,
a messenger, one out of a thousand,
sent to tell them how to be upright,
24 and he is gracious to that person and says to God,
‘Spare them from going down to the pit;
I have found a ransom for them—
25 let their flesh be renewed like a child’s;
let them be restored as in the days of their youth’—

26 then that person can pray to God and find favor with him,
they will see God’s face and shout for joy;
he will restore them to full well-being.




1 Corinthians 15

The Resurrection Body​

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”
36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.


42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.

2 entirely different resurrection hopes...Job has the hope of a resurrection on earth, Paul has the hope of a heavenly resurrection, a part of the 144,000 ruling with Christ...

 

[tosca1]

2 entirely different resurrection hopes...Job has the hope of a resurrection on earth,

But....that wasn't Job talking!
That was one of his friends in that whole Job 33.
Read the introductory statement.



Here:

Job 33
33 “But now, Job, listen to my words;
pay attention to everything I say.





And, we know how God got so angry with his friends................................ because of what they were telling Job!
You do know that, don't you?

Here:


Job 42

Epilogue​

7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite,
“I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.



"........because you have not spoken the truth about me....."



Now, you're passing on what one of the friends told Job - and, you're mistakenly attributing that opinion to Job!
That's funny.

Paul has the hope of a heavenly resurrection, a part of the 144,000 ruling with Christ...

Where does it say that?

 

[tosca1]

The very first thing to do when you're reading the Bible, is to pray for enlightenment/understanding.
Then, determine what the subject of the chapter or paragraph, is all about! Then, you try to understand it within that context!

What is the proper way to study the Bible? | GotQuestions.org

What is the proper way to study the Bible? How can I understand the Bible and its message to me?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[The Baron]

I'm just curious of what you all think about what happens after death. Nothing? Your soul departs your body and goes somewhere? Your soul is reincarnated in another human body? What do you think?

"And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once and after this comes judgment" - Hebrews 9:27

 

[Daisy]

But....that wasn't Job talking!
That was one of his friends in that whole Job 33.
Read the introductory statement.



Here:

Job 33
33 “But now, Job, listen to my words;
pay attention to everything I say.





And, we know how God got so angry with his friends................................ because of what they were telling Job!
You do know that, don't you?

Here:


Job 42

Epilogue​

7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite,
“I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.



"........because you have not spoken the truth about me....."



Now, you're passing on what one of the friends told Job - and, you're mistakenly attributing that opinion to Job!
That's funny.










Where does it say that?

Wrong...Elihu was conveying to Job a positive message from God regarding the resurrection by stating how it will be for those resurrected to the earth from the grave...

“Let him off from going down into the pit! I have found a ransom! Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; let him return to the days of his youthful vigor.”

Job most certainly did have the hope of the resurrection because he prayed for relief from his suffering...

13 O that in the Grave you would conceal me,
That you would hide me until your anger passes by,
That you would set a time limit for me and remember me!

14 If a man dies, can he live again?
I will wait all the days of my compulsory service
Until my relief comes.

15 You will call, and I will answer you.
You will long for the work of your hands.

Paul understood that his hope, like that of his fellow anointed/144,000 Christians, was to rule with Christ in heaven as part of the Messianic Kingdom...

"if we go on enduring, we will also rule together as kings; if we deny, he will also deny us;" 2 Timothy 2:12

The 144,000 are of the 1st resurrection of the heavenly calling, to rule, over the earth, with Christ for 1,000 years...

"Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus. He was faithful to the One who appointed him, just as Moses also was in all the house of that One." Hebrews 3:1,2

"Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years." Revelation 20:6

 

[tosca1]

Wrong...
Elihu was conveying to Job a positive message from God regarding the resurrection by stating how it will be for those resurrected to the earth from the grave...

“Let him off from going down into the pit! I have found a ransom! Let his flesh become fresher than in youth; let him return to the days of his youthful vigor.”

What was wrong was that the message was taken out of context, by saying....

Elvira
After the resurrection, we will return to our youth, which God purposed from the beginning...we were not created to grow old and die...

Nowhere does it say that we will return to our youth!


"......IF there is an angel at their side."

The message is an assumptive scenario of an angel praying to God, to restore a person to his "youth."




Job 33
23 Yet if there is an angel at their side,
sent to tell them how to be upright,
24 and he is gracious to that person and says to God,
‘Spare them from going down to the pit;
I have found a ransom for them—
25 let their flesh be renewed like a child’s;
let them be restored as in the days of their youth’—



Elahu rebukes Job for claiming he is without ANY sin, and that God would not answer.
Elahu talks about a person - receiving warnings from God.


14 For God does speak—now one way, now another—
though no one perceives it.
15 In a dream, in a vision of the night,
when deep sleep falls on people
as they slumber in their beds,
16 he may speak in their ears
and terrify them with warnings,
17 to turn them from wrongdoing
and keep them from pride,
18 to preserve them from the pit,
their lives from perishing by the sword.

19 “Or someone may be chastened on a bed of pain
with constant distress in their bones,
20 so that their body finds food repulsive
and their soul loathes the choicest meal.
21 Their flesh wastes away to nothing,
and their bones, once hidden, now stick out.
22 They draw near to the pit,
and their life to the messengers of death.





The prayer is for the renewal of the person - so he can pray to God - and, find favor in Him!


"Renewed like a child," (verse 25)
is more like talking about being brought back to that state of innocence - like an innocent child who has faith!



26 then that person can pray to God and find favor with him,
they will see God’s face and shout for joy;
he will restore them to full well-being.





Elahu illustrates someone having been warned by God - turning from a sinful life, praying to God.

A renewed person - perhaps, referring to a born-again person (as mentioned in the Gospels) - is restored to full well-being.

 

[tosca1]

After the resurrection, we will return to our youth, which God purposed from the beginning...we were not created to grow old and die...

Furthermore.....

Job 33
26 then that person can pray to God and find favor with him,
they will see God’s face and shout for joy;
he will restore them to full well-being.




"Restore them to......................FULL well-being."


.....a youth can't be considered "FULL."
A youth is still developing - whether that is taken to mean physically, or spiritually!

 

[Daisy]

Furthermore.....

Job 33
26 then that person can pray to God and find favor with him,
they will see God’s face and shout for joy;
he will restore them to full well-being.




"Restore them to......................FULL well-being."


.....a youth can't be considered "FULL."
A youth is still developing - whether that is taken to mean physically, or spiritually!

Furthermore, I didn't expect you to comprehend...

 

[devildavid]

It is so entertaining when "Christians" fight over fake things in the Bible. All that's missing is a steel cage.

 

[Daisy]

Another beautiful prophetic description of what life on paradise earth will be like...Isaiah 65...

21 They will build houses and live in them,
And they will plant vineyards and eat their fruitage.

22 They will not build for someone else to inhabit,
Nor will they plant for others to eat.
For the days of my people will be like the days of a tree,
And the work of their hands my chosen ones will enjoy to the full.

23 They will not toil for nothing,
Nor will they bear children for distress,
Because they are the offspring made up of those blessed by Jehovah,
And their descendants with them.

 

[devildavid]

Another beautiful prophetic description of what life on paradise earth will be like...Isaiah 65...

21 They will build houses and live in them,
And they will plant vineyards and eat their fruitage.

22 They will not build for someone else to inhabit,
Nor will they plant for others to eat.
For the days of my people will be like the days of a tree,
And the work of their hands my chosen ones will enjoy to the full.

23 They will not toil for nothing,
Nor will they bear children for distress,
Because they are the offspring made up of those blessed by Jehovah,
And their descendants with them.

Sound like an awful lot of work. It would be better to have leisure.

 

[tosca1]

Paul understood that his hope, like that of his fellow anointed/144,000 Christians, was to rule with Christ in heaven as part of the Messianic Kingdom...

"if we go on enduring, we will also rule together as kings; if we deny, he will also deny us;" 2 Timothy 2:12

The 144,000 are of the 1st resurrection of the heavenly calling, to rule, over the earth, with Christ for 1,000 years...

"Consequently, holy brothers, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the apostle and high priest whom we acknowledge—Jesus. He was faithful to the One who appointed him, just as Moses also was in all the house of that One." Hebrews 3:1,2

"Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years." Revelation 20:6

You're not actually addressing this particular chapter that's given - which describes what the RESURRECTION BODY is!




1 Corinthians 15

The Resurrection Body​

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”

36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies.
37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else.
38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body.
39 Not all flesh is the same: People have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another.
40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another.
41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.


42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable;
43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power;
44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.

46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual.
47 The first man was of the dust of the earth; the second man is of heaven.

48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the heavenly man, so also are those who are of heaven.
49 And just as we have borne the image of the earthly man, so shall we bear the image of the heavenly man.




READ IT!

Don't just give us your memorized spin that's been taught to you by JW!



Lol - talking to you is like talking to a political strategists - who always goes around a pointed question, and never gives a straight answer!

STOP READING YOUR JW SCRIPT!





Paul talks about the Resurrection of the body in a generalized way. Read the title of the chapter! That's the subject matter!
In that chapter given above - Paul isn't making any distinction nor referring to anything in particular like the 144,000.

You're adding your own JW belief into it.

 

[tosca1]

Furthermore, I didn't expect you to comprehend...

Because, you're making the Scriptures INCOMPREHENSIBLE!

Of course I won't comprehend when you keep trying to inject your JW belief into the Scriptures!
It doesn't jive with the rest of the Bible!



I keep telling you - if you fool around with the Scriptures by adding and removing - changing it in any way - your interpretation becomes inconsistent.............and, therefore, it is INDEFENSIBLE!
Look! How easy it is to punch holes in it, and make a colander out of it!


You can not defend your argument......................................... because.................... it's no longer the Word of God!

 

[tosca1]

Everyone will be raised from the dead - both saved and unsaved!
We'll all be raised...........IMPERISHABLE!

Thus, it is consistent with having an eternal life........and, unfortunately, consistent too with........ ETERNAL PUNISHMENT!




1 Corinthians 15

The Resurrection Body​

35 But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?”

-----

42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable,
it is raised imperishable;

 

[Dragonfly]

It is so entertaining when "Christians" fight over fake things in the Bible. All that's missing is a steel cage.

Watching them hurl Bible verses at each other like monkeys throwing feces really doesn’t benefit their argument much does it?

It’s been said here at DP many times over:

The religious do far more damage to religion than the non-religious ever even attempt to do.

 

[devildavid]

Watching them hurl Bible verses at each other like monkeys throwing feces really doesn’t benefit their argument much does it?

It’s been said here at DP many times over:

The religious do far more damage to religion than the non-religious ever even attempt to do.

All the damage done here to religion is self inflicted. But they still cry out in one voice when the mean old atheists "personally" attack them. They are hypocrites of the first order and it is pathetically comical to watch them argue over the "facts" of religious belief.

 

[Daisy]

Sound like an awful lot of work. It would be better to have leisure.

I guess you'd prefer floating around on a cloud all day, playing your harp...

 

[devildavid]

I guess you'd prefer floating around on a cloud all day, playing your harp...

No, I would prefer becoming just like god is. What does god do all day? Build houses?

 

[AARguy]

No, I would prefer becoming just like god is. What does god do all day? Build houses?

God goes to the range a lot. He enjoys reloading. He's working on His gunsmith certification too. Good stuff.