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What Happened to the Ban on Assault Weapons?

WillRockwell

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In an Op-Ed in today's New York Times, former president Jimmy Carter makes a strong case for the reinstatement of the Assault Weapons Ban. I'm sure the majority of forum contributors will respond to this thread with comments insulting of both me and the former president, because it is that exact intimidation which has proven successful in every attempt at gun control. By the way, exactly why does the NRA approve of ammunition designed to penetrate protective police vests?

THE evolution in public policy concerning the manufacture, sale and possession of semiautomatic assault weapons like AK-47s, AR-15s and Uzis has been very disturbing. Presidents Ronald Reagan, George H.W. Bush, Bill Clinton and I all supported a ban on these formidable firearms, and one was finally passed in 1994.

When the 10-year ban was set to expire, many police organizations — including 1,100 police chiefs and sheriffs from around the nation — called on Congress and President George W. Bush to renew and strengthen it. But with a wink from the White House, the gun lobby prevailed and the ban expired.

I have used weapons since I was big enough to carry one, and now own two handguns, four shotguns and three rifles, two with scopes. I use them carefully, for hunting game from our family woods and fields, and occasionally for hunting with my family and friends in other places. We cherish the right to own a gun and some of my hunting companions like to collect rare weapons. One of them is a superb craftsman who makes muzzle-loading rifles, one of which I displayed for four years in my private White House office.

But none of us wants to own an assault weapon, because we have no desire to kill policemen or go to a school or workplace to see how many victims we can accumulate before we are finally shot or take our own lives. That’s why the White House and Congress must not give up on trying to reinstate a ban on assault weapons, even if it may be politically difficult.

An overwhelming majority of Americans, including me and my hunting companions, believe in the right to own weapons, but surveys show that they also support modest restraints like background checks, mandatory registration and brief waiting periods before purchase.

A majority of Americans also support banning assault weapons. Many of us who hunt are dismayed by some of the more extreme policies of the National Rifle Association, the most prominent voice in opposition to a ban, and by the timidity of public officials who yield to the group’s unreasonable demands.

Heavily influenced and supported by the firearms industry, N.R.A. leaders have misled many gullible people into believing that our weapons are going to be taken away from us, and that homeowners will be deprived of the right to protect ourselves and our families. The N.R.A. would be justified in its efforts if there was a real threat to our constitutional right to bear arms. But that is not the case.

Instead, the N.R.A. is defending criminals’ access to assault weapons and use of ammunition that can penetrate protective clothing worn by police officers on duty. In addition, while the N.R.A. seems to have reluctantly accepted current law restricting sales by licensed gun dealers to convicted felons, it claims that only “law-abiding people” obey such restrictions — and it opposes applying them to private gun dealers or those who sell all kinds of weapons from the back of a van or pickup truck at gun shows.

What are the results of this profligate ownership and use of guns designed to kill people? In 2006, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention reported more than 30,000 people died from firearms, accounting for nearly 20 percent of all injury deaths. In 2005, every nine hours a child or teenager in the United States was killed in a firearm-related accident or suicide.

Across our border, Mexican drug cartels are being armed with advanced weaponry imported from the United States — a reality only the N.R.A. seems to dispute.

The gun lobby and the firearms industry should reassess their policies concerning safety and accountability — at least on assault weapons — and ease their pressure on acquiescent politicians who fear N.R.A. disapproval at election time. We can’t let the N.R.A.’s political blackmail prevent the banning of assault weapons — designed only to kill police officers and the people they defend.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/27/opinion/27Carter.html?_r=1&ref=global
 
You know we can insult you, because we'll get in trouble. Jimmy Carter is a raving lunatic, but I know he's your roll model.
 
wow.... "ammo designed to penetrate police vests"


just so we know you are not ignorant. please list this ammo.... :lol:
 
wow.... "ammo designed to penetrate police vests"


just so we know you are not ignorant. please list this ammo.... :lol:

Again, you enjoy ridiculing my ignorance of the technical knowledge of firearms. Enjoy yourself. I was paraphrasing this sentence from the Carter op-ed, why don't you tell me what he is referring to? Or is he ignorant also?

the N.R.A. is defending criminals’ access to assault weapons and use of ammunition that can penetrate protective clothing worn by police officers on duty.
 
Again, you enjoy ridiculing my ignorance of the technical knowledge of firearms. Enjoy yourself. I was paraphrasing this sentence from the Carter op-ed, why don't you tell me what he is referring to? Or is he ignorant also?




Please you made a comment. you and carter are ignorant on the subject.

which ammo can penetrate police ammo.


hint, carter that buffoon admitted to owning a weapon that can fire rounds that meet his criteria.



please if you are going to post this emotional garbage, at least have the courtesy of at least looking intelligent on the subject matter.
 
Please you made a comment. you and carter are ignorant on the subject.

which ammo can penetrate police ammo.


hint, carter that buffoon admitted to owning a weapon that can fire rounds that meet his criteria.



please if you are going to post this emotional garbage, at least have the courtesy of at least looking intelligent on the subject matter.

Armor-piercing ammunition

Rifle and pistol rounds are usually built around a penetrator of hardened steel or tungsten.

Armor-piercing shot and shell - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 
:lol:


what level of armor does the average policeman wear?


start there.



then look at the weapons that carter the buffoon admitted to owning.


tell me what you find.





these emotional arguments that have little to do with reality are tiresome and old.

Since you seem to already have all the answers to your questions why don't you tell us instead of playing a cat and mouse game.
 
Since you seem to already have all the answers to your questions why don't you tell us instead of playing a cat and mouse game.



level II-A


stops up to a 9mm fmj traveling at 1,090fps, any higher it penetrates.



does not stop rifle rounds..... the bullet does not care if its fired from my m14, or carter's remmington 700....



carter, and will's emotional appeal is a lie.
 
does not stop rifle rounds..... the bullet does not care if its fired from my m14, or carter's remmington 700....



carter, and will's emotional appeal is a lie.

Yea Remington 700's are used in soooo many assaults on cops:roll:

So lets just legalize all armor piercing ammo.
 
Yea Remington 700's are used in soooo many assaults on cops:roll:


neither are m14's


you fail.


So lets just legalize all armor piercing ammo.



"armor piercing" as i proved to you is an emotional buzzwords dishonest people try to use to attack the 2nd amendment.


the m14 an "assault rifle" fires the same round, the .308 winchester, that a remington 700 does. this round sails through level II armor like it is not even there.


are you suggesting we ban the most popular hunting round because of a weak emotional argument you and will have?
 
"armor piercing" as i proved to you is an emotional buzzwords dishonest people try to use to attack the 2nd amendment.

Errr there is ammo specifically designed to pierce body armor as I pointed out.
 
yes, when losing an argument it is best to try to reframe it.


show me where will or carter were talking about those specific rounds.
 
yes, when losing an argument it is best to try to reframe it.


show me where will or carter were talking about those specific rounds.

What the heck do you think he was talking about, his Remington?:lol:
use of ammunition that can penetrate protective clothing worn by police officers on duty.

But go ahead take things out of context RH.:lol:
 
What the heck do you think he was talking about, his Remington?:lol:


But go ahead take things out of context RH.:lol:




right and i just showed you that many types of ammo and weapons that fall under his generic opinion.


you are the one taking it out of context.
 
right and i just showed you that many types of ammo and weapons that fall under his generic opinion.


you are the one taking it out of context.

And you know full and well he is not talking about his Remington. But rather ammo specifically designed to penetrate body armor.
 
There are too many gun restrictions as is. And automatic registration is nothing more than big brother databasing! There's no reason the government needs a list of people choosing to exercise their rights.
 
The AWB is arguably the worst piece of gun control legislation ever passed. It banned completely irrelevant features and created huge amount of confusion with the term "assault rifle". Current laws prevent any truly dangerous weapons from being generally available (and there are many that could be removed).
 
The point Rev is trying to make is this. Carter is engaging in melodramatic rhetoric in order to try and vilify assault weapons. He says they are used to kill police men and fire rounds that are designed to penetrate bullet proof vests. The bottom line is that the very ammo he fires from his 700 will punch a hole right through standard police body armor, and that's not because it's "designed" to do so. It's because it's a very dense, lead slug traveling at a very high velocity. The bullet Carter fires is "designed" to take down big game quickly, but it also happens to defeat most police body armor. Is this ammo to be considered "cop killer" ammo or just "big game killer" ammo?

You don't need an armor penetrating bullet in a .223 (5.56mm) or .308 (7.62mm) in order to kill cops or go through a bullet proof vest. An arrow fired from a compound bow will go through many vests (not a trauma plate though). Are bow and arrows now "cop killers?"

It is the level of dishonesty being used to hype the ban against weapons and ammunition. It's ridiculous because the people pushing a ban on these items typically don't have very much knowledge on firearms at all. The logic in banning a weapon just because of it's appearance or it's magazine capacity is very flawed. A guy with a Smith and Wesson Model 19 revolver with enough ammor and a lot of experience in firing that weapon could easily kill more people than a kid with an MAC11 who has very little experience firing his weapon.

Now, for the sake of addressing the "super scary cop killer assault weapons" the only difference between an M-14 and a Remington 7600 semi-auto is magazine capacity. Both will slice through standard Level II or Level IIA police armor with ease (even without "cop killer" or armor piercing ammo) and both are rapid firing semi-automatic weapons. But the 7600 is a perfectly acceptable weapon because it was "designed" as a hunting rifle and "looks" like a hunting rifle. Never mind you could kill a multitude of people with it if you so desired, including cops in body armor.

The AWB is a ridiculous piece of legislation that was created from hype, abuse of statistical data, dishonest presentation of information, and ignorance.

The reason so many people shout it down is because it's just stupid. And most of us will not take kindly to stupid idea infringing upon our rights.
 
The point Rev is trying to make is this. Carter is engaging in melodramatic rhetoric in order to try and vilify assault weapons. He says they are used to kill police men and fire rounds that are designed to penetrate bullet proof vests. The bottom line is that the very ammo he fires from his 700 will punch a hole right through standard police body armor, and that's not because it's "designed" to do so. It's because it's a very dense, lead slug traveling at a very high velocity. The bullet Carter fires is "designed" to take down big game quickly, but it also happens to defeat most police body armor. Is this ammo to be considered "cop killer" ammo or just "big game killer" ammo?

You don't need an armor penetrating bullet in a .223 (5.56mm) or .308 (7.62mm) in order to kill cops or go through a bullet proof vest. An arrow fired from a compound bow will go through many vests (not a trauma plate though). Are bow and arrows now "cop killers?"

It is the level of dishonesty being used to hype the ban against weapons and ammunition. It's ridiculous because the people pushing a ban on these items typically don't have very much knowledge on firearms at all. The logic in banning a weapon just because of it's appearance or it's magazine capacity is very flawed. A guy with a Smith and Wesson Model 19 revolver with enough ammor and a lot of experience in firing that weapon could easily kill more people than a kid with an MAC11 who has very little experience firing his weapon.

Now, for the sake of addressing the "super scary cop killer assault weapons" the only difference between an M-14 and a Remington 7600 semi-auto is magazine capacity. Both will slice through standard Level II or Level IIA police armor with ease (even without "cop killer" or armor piercing ammo) and both are rapid firing semi-automatic weapons. But the 7600 is a perfectly acceptable weapon because it was "designed" as a hunting rifle and "looks" like a hunting rifle. Never mind you could kill a multitude of people with it if you so desired, including cops in body armor.

The AWB is a ridiculous piece of legislation that was created from hype, abuse of statistical data, dishonest presentation of information, and ignorance.

The reason so many people shout it down is because it's just stupid. And most of us will not take kindly to stupid idea infringing upon our rights.


While I disagree with your opinion on this topic, I respect the intelligence and knowledge you bring to it.
 
Both sides use emotionalism and half truths in their rants
 
In an Op-Ed in today's New York Times, former president Jimmy Carter makes a strong case for the reinstatement of the Assault Weapons Ban.
This isn't a 'strong case', its a re-statement of all the usual anti-gun dreck.

By the way, exactly why does the NRA approve of ammunition designed to penetrate protective police vests?
What ammo is that, and how, specifically, does the NRA 'approve' of it?
 
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