What energy do you see us using in 30 years?

[code1211]

The only problem with Hydrogen is small scale storage, like in a car. Maybe someone will figure out a way to store it in cow fat or something incomprehensible like that.

It just seems so perfect that the exhaust is the original source of the fuel. Of course, this is coming from a guy who couldn't figure out how to do anything chemically.

 

[code1211]

I remember all too well.

The Big 0 and his crew may remember this, but still want $7.00/gallon gas.

I still don't see how this guy's plan isn't working.

 

[code1211]

The price of oil goes up and down according to global supply and demand. Currently, the price has been going down. Inflation is pretty flat right now in the US, and the interest rate is the lowest I've ever seen. In the late '70s, during the OPEC oil crisis, the price of crude was soaring, inflation was in double digits, and so were interest rates.

The current meltdown is a direct result of failure to regulate the mortgage and banking industries.

That's right for half of it. The other half was the Feds demanding that lenders lend to those who could not re-pay the loans.

If everyone who borrowed had the undeniable ability to re-pay, then the assets never would have become toxic and the Ponze Scheme would still be working today.

 

[code1211]

so, you think that providing jobs drilling for oil and gas would have been a better economic stimulus than providing jobs working on infrastructure?

Maybe so, maybe not. It would not have affected the price of crude, as we don't have enough to affect the global supply.

There has been a boom, has there not, in exploration for natural gas?

The difference is that doing it the Big Government paid by taxes way, the tax burden increases. Doing it with private investment, which is what happens with oil drilling, the tax revenue increases.

The Big Government way creates debt, doubt and despair.

The private investment way creates wealth, certainty and hope.

This is pretty basic stuff.

 

[code1211]

It's not anti-oil - it's just not giving oil companies a free ride on public land. The oil companies have been doing just fine without access to government lands. Oil stock prices are holding, on average they've issued dividends better than most companies, and they are exploiting their private leases quite nicely. Drilling and production hasn't slowed one bit, in fact it's picked up from the 2001-08 period. It's just that most of the new drilling hasn't been on public land.

All drilling done at any particular time is the result of government action taken a decade or so earlier.

If we want to exploit our natural resources in the near future, that decision needs to be made now.

The decison the Big 0 made was to stop this, stop private investment, stop the creation of jobs and start the slide to the Big Government and the Central Control of everyone's lives.

 

[code1211]

I see. Taking tax money and giving it to oil companies is not socialism (even though the definition of socialism would include government support of private business). Socialism is only when you give it to someone you don't like.

It's good to know that you support the general idea of stimulus. You just don't like the guy doing it.

Is the government giving oil companies money or just reducing the amount that is taken from oil companies?

 

[code1211]

See, the thing about Keystone is that it won't affect the price we pay at the pump here. That's all about moving Canadian oil onto the international market. The US is just a viaduct that they have to go through.

And if the world wide supply increases on this whole world commodity, what might we expect would happen to the price?

 

[rocket88]

And if the world wide supply increases on this whole world commodity, what might we expect would happen to the price?

You can expect it to be shipped to China.

Crude and gasoline are different commodities. Even if the price of crude goes down a little, the price of gasoline in this country is based on how much crude is refined into gasoline, and how much gasoline there is in this country. If gasoline went back down to $2.50, they'd make less gasoline and divert the crude into other uses like plastics. Thinking that the price of crude going down is going to result in a lower price of gasoline is assuming that they'll make more gasoline and sell it here. That's an awfully big assumption.

In other words crude on boats to China =/= lower gas prices in the USA.

 

[rocket88]

All drilling done at any particular time is the result of government action taken a decade or so earlier.

So if more drilling is done in 10 years, you'll be hailing the actions of Obama, right?

 

[pimptight]

Is sticks and wood an acceptable answer?

I think 30 years from now the only fuel the 300-800 million humans left on the planet will be burning is sticks and wood.

Of course facts can change in the future, and perhaps we will do something about the demand crisis that has been created, and the capital allocation that is going to bring us into a super, mega, great depression that will reduce the worlds population to a sustainable level.

 

[pimptight]

You can expect it to be shipped to China.

Crude and gasoline are different commodities. Even if the price of crude goes down a little, the price of gasoline in this country is based on how much crude is refined into gasoline, and how much gasoline there is in this country. If gasoline went back down to $2.50, they'd make less gasoline and divert the crude into other uses like plastics. Thinking that the price of crude going down is going to result in a lower price of gasoline is assuming that they'll make more gasoline and sell it here. That's an awfully big assumption.

In other words crude on boats to China =/= lower gas prices in the USA.

Ever heard of the Standard Oil model?

 

[MoSurveyor]

That's right for half of it. The other half was the Feds demanding that lenders lend to those who could not re-pay the loans.

If everyone who borrowed had the undeniable ability to re-pay, then the assets never would have become toxic and the Ponze Scheme would still be working today.

What a pile of crap. The bankers were the ones approving those loans - and often they did not comply with the Fed requirements, which was a big part of the problem. The majority and worst of the toxic assets were those the banks couldn't get the Fed to back.

 

[MoSurveyor]

The Big Government way creates debt, doubt and despair.

The private investment way creates wealth, certainty and hope.

This is pretty basic stuff.

Basic stuff for what? Corporatism 101? Republican 201? LOL! This is just more BS and PR from the right.

 

[MoSurveyor]

All drilling done at any particular time is the result of government action taken a decade or so earlier.

If we want to exploit our natural resources in the near future, that decision needs to be made now.

The decison the Big 0 made was to stop this, stop private investment, stop the creation of jobs and start the slide to the Big Government and the Central Control of everyone's lives.

The decade delay is BS. It sure as hell doesn't take a decade to move the equipment in and dig an oil well, or even a field of them. :roll:

Now you're acting like all drilling has to be done on public land. Oil companies have plenty of privately owned leases. This is just more undocumented PR and BS.

 

[rocket88]

Ever heard of the Standard Oil model?

Not sure what you mean. Standard Oil was broken up because it controlled everything, so we're not going back there.

 

[code1211]

You can expect it to be shipped to China.

Crude and gasoline are different commodities. Even if the price of crude goes down a little, the price of gasoline in this country is based on how much crude is refined into gasoline, and how much gasoline there is in this country. If gasoline went back down to $2.50, they'd make less gasoline and divert the crude into other uses like plastics. Thinking that the price of crude going down is going to result in a lower price of gasoline is assuming that they'll make more gasoline and sell it here. That's an awfully big assumption.

In other words crude on boats to China =/= lower gas prices in the USA.

Your adherence to Liberal logic is not debatable.

 

[code1211]

So if more drilling is done in 10 years, you'll be hailing the actions of Obama, right?

What has he done to promote more drilling?

 

[code1211]

What a pile of crap. The bankers were the ones approving those loans - and often they did not comply with the Fed requirements, which was a big part of the problem. The majority and worst of the toxic assets were those the banks couldn't get the Fed to back.

Right! And if they approved enough loans for white, middle class home buyers and none for minority, low income home buyers, they were convicted in Federal Court.

 

[code1211]

Basic stuff for what? Corporatism 101? Republican 201? LOL! This is just more BS and PR from the right.

Look at the 90's.

Look at the Obama years.

In the 90's there was private investment and a growing economy.

In the Obama years there has been massive government spending a legacy of debt that will go on for generations.

Yes, basic stuff.

 

[code1211]

The decade delay is BS. It sure as hell doesn't take a decade to move the equipment in and dig an oil well, or even a field of them. :roll:

Now you're acting like all drilling has to be done on public land. Oil companies have plenty of privately owned leases. This is just more undocumented PR and BS.

Of course, you know all there is to know about finding, drilling for and producing oil to market. I will bow to your greater knowledge.

I won't invest based on it, but i will bow to it.

The empty barrel makes the loudest noise.

 

[pimptight]

Not sure what you mean. Standard Oil was broken up because it controlled everything, so we're not going back there.

You sure about that?

Look at what is done with the Supertankers to control the oil, and tell me how it is different than what Standard oil did with the trains.

What you just described above, is exactly what Standard Oil did with refinery's to control the supply of gas.

Not only is the energy industry on the Standard Oil model, but many other industries have adopted similar strategies based on the same ideas.

 

[MoSurveyor]

Right! And if they approved enough loans for white, middle class home buyers and none for minority, low income home buyers, they were convicted in Federal Court.

And which cases would those be, exactly?

 

[MoSurveyor]

Look at the 90's.

Look at the Obama years.

In the 90's there was private investment and a growing economy.

In the Obama years there has been massive government spending a legacy of debt that will go on for generations.

Yes, basic stuff.

Two data points. That should be plenty on which to base any theory! :lol:

 

[sawyerloggingon]

The decade delay is BS. It sure as hell doesn't take a decade to move the equipment in and dig an oil well, or even a field of them. :roll:

Now you're acting like all drilling has to be done on public land. Oil companies have plenty of privately owned leases. This is just more undocumented PR and BS.

At least you now know oil company's lease drilling rights and they don't own the land the oil is on. Stick with me buddy, I have even more to teach you.

 

[MoSurveyor]

At least you now know oil company's lease drilling rights and they don't own the land the oil is on. Stick with me buddy, I have even more to teach you.

You think you taught me that? :lamo



You should stick to water pumps. Since I've never had a use for one at home I'd never seen one like you built.