What does Putin want? The same thing Trump sought.

[SoCal]

Leaked audio reveals embarrassing U.S. exchange on Ukraine, EU

A conversation between a State Department official and the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine that was posted on YouTube revealed an embarrassing exchange on U.S. strategy for a political transition in that country, including a crude American swipe at the European Union.

www.reuters.com

And take a look at the links and citations in this article - https://mronline.org/2022/02/24/what-you-should-really-know-about-ukraine/

It's cute you think Politifact is not an arm of the DNC. LOL

Sorry, but an official suggesting that Klitschko shouldn't be in the government doesn't help Lavrov's claim that Obama's remarks prove it was a U.S. coup in Ukraine. We support Ukraine with weapons and intelligence, but I don't believe we forced democracy and NATO membership on these former Russian, 'buffers'.

Ukraine is no different then the rest of the former Warsaw Pact countries. They all could have kept with Russia's or some other totalitarian government, but given an opportunity how many countries choose autocracies over freedom and self government ruled from the bottom up? Both the far left and far right want to explain this shift to democracies as, 'Mwahahaha' America's master to finally destroy Russia. They demand their buffer, **** what the Ukrainians want. In the Bryce Greene article you linked to, he goes on about America, Russia, NATO and corporations, yet you won't find the word, "Ukrainians". Not one mention of the Ukrainian people and what they might want.

I wonder what the Ukrainian defenders would say when asked if they're fighting and dying for the US and NATO, or for their democracy and freedom? You might claim they don't realize they're a tool for NATO and are being manipulated and taken advantage of, which is as valid as the conservative claim that blacks don't realize they're a tool for the Democrats and are being manipulated and taken advantage of.

LOL...

 

[jnug]

Sorry, but an official suggesting that Klitschko shouldn't be in the government doesn't help Lavrov's claim that Obama's remarks prove it was a U.S. coup in Ukraine. We support Ukraine with weapons and intelligence, but I don't believe we forced democracy and NATO membership on these former Russian, 'buffers'.

Ukraine is no different then the rest of the former Warsaw Pact countries. They all could have kept with Russia's or some other totalitarian government, but given an opportunity how many countries choose autocracies over freedom and self government ruled from the bottom up? Both the far left and far right want to explain this shift to democracies as, 'Mwahahaha' America's master to finally destroy Russia. They demand their buffer, **** what the Ukrainians want. In the Bryce Greene article you linked to, he goes on about America, Russia, NATO and corporations, yet you won't find the word, "Ukrainians". Not one mention of the Ukrainian people and what they might want.

I wonder what the Ukrainian defenders would say when asked if they're fighting and dying for the US and NATO, or for their democracy and freedom? You might claim they don't realize they're a tool for NATO and are being manipulated and taken advantage of, which is as valid as the conservative claim that blacks don't realize they're a tool for the Democrats and are being manipulated and taken advantage of.

LOL...

Well said....the Putinites are trying to press a geopolitical agenda onto the Ukrainians which the do not have. Yes they are trying to draw as much support from us as possible by claiming that they are fighting for all democratic countries everywhere. They are not and they know they are not. I don't see any flags being flown in Ukraine by Ukraines other than their own flag. They are fighting on their ground for their right to be free instead of living under the heel of a Russian boot.

 

[NWRatCon]

Sorry, but an official suggesting that Klitschko shouldn't be in the government doesn't help Lavrov's claim that Obama's remarks prove it was a U.S. coup in Ukraine. We support Ukraine with weapons and intelligence, but I don't believe we forced democracy and NATO membership on these former Russian, 'buffers'.

Ukraine is no different then the rest of the former Warsaw Pact countries. They all could have kept with Russia's or some other totalitarian government, but given an opportunity how many countries choose autocracies over freedom and self government ruled from the bottom up? Both the far left and far right want to explain this shift to democracies as, 'Mwahahaha' America's master to finally destroy Russia. They demand their buffer, **** what the Ukrainians want. In the Bryce Greene article you linked to, he goes on about America, Russia, NATO and corporations, yet you won't find the word, "Ukrainians". Not one mention of the Ukrainian people and what they might want.

I wonder what the Ukrainian defenders would say when asked if they're fighting and dying for the US and NATO, or for their democracy and freedom? You might claim they don't realize they're a tool for NATO and are being manipulated and taken advantage of, which is as valid as the conservative claim that blacks don't realize they're a tool for the Democrats and are being manipulated and taken advantage of.

LOL...

It's funny when "right wing zealots" quote a socialist publication to justify their obeisance to Putin. I'm sure they have no idea what they are doing. Or.... maybe they do

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Sorry, but an official suggesting that Klitschko shouldn't be in the government doesn't help Lavrov's claim that Obama's remarks prove it was a U.S. coup in Ukraine. We support Ukraine with weapons and intelligence, but I don't believe we forced democracy and NATO membership on these former Russian, 'buffers'.

Ukraine is no different then the rest of the former Warsaw Pact countries. They all could have kept with Russia's or some other totalitarian government, but given an opportunity how many countries choose autocracies over freedom and self government ruled from the bottom up? Both the far left and far right want to explain this shift to democracies as, 'Mwahahaha' America's master to finally destroy Russia. They demand their buffer, **** what the Ukrainians want. In the Bryce Greene article you linked to, he goes on about America, Russia, NATO and corporations, yet you won't find the word, "Ukrainians". Not one mention of the Ukrainian people and what they might want.

I wonder what the Ukrainian defenders would say when asked if they're fighting and dying for the US and NATO, or for their democracy and freedom? You might claim they don't realize they're a tool for NATO and are being manipulated and taken advantage of, which is as valid as the conservative claim that blacks don't realize they're a tool for the Democrats and are being manipulated and taken advantage of.

LOL...

"Forced democracy?" Are you high? The coup deposed the democratically elected leader. The US and others didn't like him. That's why he was deposed.

They wouldn't say they're fighting for the US, NATO, democracy, or freedom. They'd say they're fighting for their homes, wives and kids, their lives, their hopes, their dreams, their country.

And, the idea that Ukraine is a pawn of both Russia and the NATO countries is absolutely valid. Only the naive and uneducated could possibly not see it.

If you think the US cares about Ukraine because of what the Ukrainians want, you are quite naive. The US cares about Ukraine because it is strategically important. Nothing "wrong" with that - it's just the way countries behave.

 

[NWRatCon]

I just saw a site in Ukraine I remember from Geoguessr. It was a bombed out skeleton of a gold-domed church. Holy shit. Nothing is sacred. No military purpose, just pure terrorism.

 

[NWRatCon]

If intelligence reports are correct, Russia has lost 10% of its air power over the last 12 days.

 

[SoCal]

...And, the idea that Ukraine is a pawn of both Russia and the NATO countries is absolutely valid. Only the naive and uneducated could possibly not see it...

Yeah we know, just like Politifact...

 

[MrNiceGuy]

Yeah we know, just like Politifact...

No, not just like Politifact. Politifact is a biased "fact checker" that selectively fact checks to push a narrative and is in the tank for the Democrat Party.

Ukraine is a pawn of the West and the East in an overarching global struggle.

 

[jnug]

No, not just like Politifact. Politifact is a biased "fact checker" that selectively fact checks to push a narrative and is in the tank for the Democrat Party.

Ukraine is a pawn of the West and the East in an overarching global struggle.

Naive.......so Putin's attack on Ukraine is just a move on a chess board??? Putin attacked for the same reason agressors have always attacked....He wants the territory and its assets. All of this overcomplicated analysis is simply funny.

Unfortunately for Putin he had convinced himself that Ukraine would turn it over to him intact. Whoops.

 

[SoCal]

No, not just like Politifact. Politifact is a biased "fact checker" that selectively fact checks to push a narrative and is in the tank for the Democrat Party.

Ukraine is a pawn of the West and the East in an overarching global struggle.

Just a pawn, Ukraine is no different than any other of the eight former members of the Warsaw Pact. All eight countries who chose a democratic/republic government did so because they were pawns/manipulated/fomented by NATO specifically to encroach on territory we knew, would be perceived by Russia to be their land. You do not believe all eight countries chose a democratic/republic government because they wanted independence and freedom. You believe some of those countries would have chosen to continue being puppets of Putin, or to have chosen a. new dictator. But I'm the one who's naive.

Maybe it's your misuse or misunderstanding of the word pawn that's making it hard for you to express yourself. Being a pawn implies being used directly by a greater power. NATO didn't move, manipulate, foment or otherwise decide how all eight of these countries will be governed. There's a big gulf between watching helping these countries choose democracy then forcing, fomenting, or manipulating them to into it...