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What does it mean to INFRINGE upon the Right to Keep and Bear arms

What does it mean to INFRINGE on the RKBA

  • any substantive interference with the right

    Votes: 37 52.1%

  • Only major interferences-like a ban on handguns

    Votes: 8 11.3%

  • any interference whatsoever-such as showing an ID

    Votes: 14 19.7%

  • Only a complete ban on owning any firearm

    Votes: 3 4.2%

  • The Second Amendment doesn't apply to individuals

    Votes: 4 5.6%

  • Other-explain

    Votes: 5 7.0%
  • Total voters
    71
danielpalos said:
non sequiturs are usually considered fallacies. you are welcome to post any citation that supports your contention.

Otherwise, why not just cede the point and the argument you have consistently failed to have?
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lacking a command of the english language suggests someone who is not a native American

failure to demonstrate any understanding of current constitutional law suggests someone unlearned in this area

trying to twist the plain meaning of words and constantly repeating non relevant nonsense proves someone who is trying to bait and obfuscate
 
TurtleDude said:
I haven't seen anything in your postings other than the obvious desire to mutate and twist the obvious words of the 2A because you don't like the obvious fact that the 2A-if properly enforced-prevents all the idiotic gun control schemes that "very liberal" individuals normally want
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The Second Amendment is unclear and ambiguous. It's words have multiple meanings. However, understood in a manner consistent with political philosophy of the Founders, they point to a collective right of the People to control the military not an individual right to guns. Look-up the words.
 
Joe Steel said:
The Second Amendment is unclear and ambiguous. It's words have multiple meanings. However, understood in a manner consistent with political philosophy of the Founders, they point to a collective right of the People to control the military not an individual right to guns. Look-up the words.
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No it isn't. and you are wrong. You are just trying to pretend that the 2A doesn't preclude the anti gun nonsense liberals worship. the political philosophy of the founders was anti collectivism. can you find ONE document generated during the creation of the USC that supports your idiocy?
 
Tetelestai said:
haymarket said:
Uh, did you read the whole thing? "OK, so the quote and cite are screwed up. What about the supposed law itself? Well, as described in the FAQ, 1935 "has no correlation with any legislative effort by the Nazis for gun registration." (Nor, for that matter, does 1936, the year you mention in your question.) Indeed, there was no need for the Nazis to pass a law like that, because the earlier Weimar government had already passed gun registration laws. When I asked Cramer about his research, he said, "The laws adopted by the Weimar Republic intended to disarm Nazis and Communists were sufficiently discretionary that the Nazis managed to use them against their enemies once they were in power." In other words, they didn't need to pass additional laws. The Nazis did pass a weapons law in 1938, but that only added restrictions to the previous law, especially for Jews and other "non-citizens."

It doesn't really matter WHO made the laws, they were used to ensure the public was disarmed.
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First, accuracy and truth are always important. When one says Hitler disarmed the people and we discover he did not even pass the laws referred to, it is important to point out that glaring false statement.

Second, there is no evidence that Hitler disarmed the population taking away their personal guns with the exception of targeted groups who we know were in for far worse treatment than only that.
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Joe Steel said:
The word "people" has multiple meanings. The world "state" has multiple meanings. The word "militia" has multiple meanings. The word "arms" has multiple meanings. That's a pretty good argument for ambiguity, isn't it?
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People has only one meaning, homo sapiens, the plural of people.

Militia may mean different things to different people, but the use of the phrase "a well regulated militia being necessary to a free state" is clearly an explanation of why the right to keep and bear arms is not to be infringed, which is why the SCOTUS has ruled as it has.

Arms has a broad meaning, broader than the word "gun" or "firearm". It encompasses more than it did when the Second Amendment was written, which is why the SCOTUS had to attempt to address the issue of regulation of arms.
 
TurtleDude said:
Let's cut the crap. what proposed or current gun control laws do you support.
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A well regulated militia is expressly enumerated as necessary to the security of a free State. If our federal Congress cannot justify wartime tax rates for our wars on crime, drugs, poverty, and terror; we don't need to spend the Peoples' tax monies on them.
 
danielpalos said:
A well regulated militia is expressly enumerated as necessary to the security of a free State. If our federal Congress cannot justify wartime tax rates for our wars on crime, drugs, poverty, and terror; we don't need to spend the Peoples' tax monies on them.
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try as I might, I fail to see the relevance in your silly comment.
 
TurtleDude said:
Let's cut the crap. what proposed or current gun control laws do you support.
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General Retrieval And Ban

Section 1 - Responsibility

1. Responsibility for enforcing the General Retrieval and Ban shall be vested in the National Firearms Retrieval Service. NFRS shall be empowered to use whatever means generally are available to law enforcement agencies.

2. The General Retrieval and Ban permits retrieval and banning of firearms without the requirement they be covered specifically by legislation. Firearms covered by GRAB shall be included at the discretion the Director of the National Firearms Retrieval Service who shall be required to hold hearings and consult with interested parties before adding any firearm to the Schedule of Banned Firearms. The President of the United States shall approve implementation of Retrieval for any firearm added to the Schedule of Banned Firearms.

Section 2 - Process

1. Retrieval: Within 30 days of implementation, scheduled firearms in private possession shall be delivered to a law enforcement agency.

2. Prosecution: Persons found to be in possession of a scheduled firearm after the expiration of the 30 day Retrieval period will be guilty of a Class A felony and shall be prosecuted.

3. Reeducation: Convicted offenders found to be in possession of a scheduled firearm, shall be transported to a reeducation camp for instruction in the community's expectations.

4. Transition: Persons found to be in possession of a scheduled firearm after reeducation shall be transitioned to a harmless condition.

Section 3 - Financing.

1. Financing for GRAB and related agencies and their operations shall be provided by taxes on firearms and operations.

2. Taxes on firearms shall include but not necessarily be limited to an excise tax and an annual property tax.

3. Taxes on ammunition shall include an excise tax.

4. Any tax levied by GRAB shall not preclude any tax levied by a state or local jurisdiction.

Section 4. - Judicial Review and Severability

1. The GRAB shall not be subject to judicial review.

2. Should any part of the GRAB be determined to be unlawful or in conflict with another law, the discrepancy shall not affect any other part of GRAB.

Section 5. - Registry

1. The Director of the National Firearms Retrieval Service shall maintain a registry of all firearms within the national borders.

2. The Director shall record all pertinent information related to each firearm. The information recorded shall included but not necessarily be limited to the serial number of the fireman, the description of the firearm, name and address of the possessor and owner if different. The Director is empowered to collect any other information which may be pertinent to retrieving the firearm should it be added to the Schedule of Banned Firearms.
 
Joe Steel said:
General Retrieval And Ban

Section 1 - Responsibility

1. Responsibility for enforcing the General Retrieval and Ban shall be vested in the National Firearms Retrieval Service. NFRS shall be empowered to use whatever means generally are available to law enforcement agencies.

2. The General Retrieval and Ban permits retrieval and banning of firearms without the requirement they be covered specifically by legislation. Firearms covered by GRAB shall be included at the discretion the Director of the National Firearms Retrieval Service who shall be required to hold hearings and consult with interested parties before adding any firearm to the Schedule of Banned Firearms. The President of the United States shall approve implementation of Retrieval for any firearm added to the Schedule of Banned Firearms.

Section 2 - Process

1. Retrieval: Within 30 days of implementation, scheduled firearms in private possession shall be delivered to a law enforcement agency.

2. Prosecution: Persons found to be in possession of a scheduled firearm after the expiration of the 30 day Retrieval period will be guilty of a Class A felony and shall be prosecuted.

3. Reeducation: Convicted offenders found to be in possession of a scheduled firearm, shall be transported to a reeducation camp for instruction in the community's expectations.

4. Transition: Persons found to be in possession of a scheduled firearm after reeducation shall be transitioned to a harmless condition.

Section 3 - Financing.

1. Financing for GRAB and related agencies and their operations shall be provided by taxes on firearms and operations.

2. Taxes on firearms shall include but not necessarily be limited to an excise tax and an annual property tax.

3. Taxes on ammunition shall include an excise tax.

4. Any tax levied by GRAB shall not preclude any tax levied by a state or local jurisdiction.

Section 4. - Judicial Review and Severability

1. The GRAB shall not be subject to judicial review.

2. Should any part of the GRAB be determined to be unlawful or in conflict with another law, the discrepancy shall not affect any other part of GRAB.

Section 5. - Registry

1. The Director of the National Firearms Retrieval Service shall maintain a registry of all firearms within the national borders.

2. The Director shall record all pertinent information related to each firearm. The information recorded shall included but not necessarily be limited to the serial number of the fireman, the description of the firearm, name and address of the possessor and owner if different. The Director is empowered to collect any other information which may be pertinent to retrieving the firearm should it be added to the Schedule of Banned Firearms.
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That would justify some serious opposition in my mind: termination with extreme prejudice type

so you want to confiscate firearms. But thanks for being honest
 
danielpalos said:
It doesn't matter since only a well regulated militia is enumerated as necessary to the security of a free State.
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And, therefore, according to your logic, only those individuals who are militias of one are necessary to a free state. It follows then, that anyone who exercises the right to keep and bear arms is a militia of one and is necessary to the security of a free state.
 
haymarket said:
Tetelestai said:
First, accuracy and truth are always important. When one says Hitler disarmed the people and we discover he did not even pass the laws referred to, it is important to point out that glaring false statement.

Second, there is no evidence that Hitler disarmed the population taking away their personal guns with the exception of targeted groups who we know were in for far worse treatment than only that.
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LOL!!! There are NO worse people on earth than Nazi's! They are the perpetrators of all kinds of evil. He most definitely disarmed the German people using those laws. the end result is what matters.
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Tetelestai said:
haymarket said:
LOL!!! There are NO worse people on earth than Nazi's! They are the perpetrators of all kinds of evil. He most definitely disarmed the German people using those laws. the end result is what matters.
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Perhaps you can counter the verifiable evidence I presented from a third party and present your own?
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Dittohead not! said:
And, therefore, according to your logic, only those individuals who are militias of one are necessary to a free state. It follows then, that anyone who exercises the right to keep and bear arms is a militia of one and is necessary to the security of a free state.
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Nope; only well regulated militias of the United States may not be Infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union. Everyone else is subject to paragraph (2) of DC v Heller.
 
danielpalos said:
Nope; only well regulated militias of the United States may not be Infringed when keeping and bearing Arms for their State or the Union. Everyone else is subject to paragraph (2) of DC v Heller.
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Actually....militias were the people, not of the gov of the united states. Pretty clear actually. And regulated means trained. So, it's well trained private individuals. So...

That has been conveniently unspoken of. The militia is not a branch of the gov. It is supposed to be private, and in control of the people. No state or fed interference.
 
Joe Steel said:
That's ridiculous. Open-up a dictionary.
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OK. Here you go:

peo·ple noun \ˈpē-pəl\
plural people

Definition of PEOPLE

1
plural : human beings making up a group or assembly or linked by a common interest
2
plural : human beings, persons —often used in compounds instead of persons <salespeople> —often used attributively <people skills>
3
plural : the members of a family or kinship
4
plural : the mass of a community as distinguished from a special class <disputes between the people and the nobles> —often used by Communists to distinguish Communists from other people
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MichaelJR said:
Actually....militias were the people, not of the gov of the united states. Pretty clear actually. And regulated means trained. So, it's well trained private individuals. So...

That has been conveniently unspoken of. The militia is not a branch of the gov. It is supposed to be private, and in control of the people. No state or fed interference.
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How did you reach your conclusion? A well regulated Militia being necessary to the security of a free State--is a States' right.
 
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