What does it mean to be patriotic? (1 Viewer)

[FallingPianos]

what is patriotism? loyalty to one's government? loyalty to one's people? the word is thrown around a lot, but rarely defined.

 

[jfuh]

what is patriotism? loyalty to one's government? loyalty to one's people? the word is thrown around a lot, but rarely defined.

Depends on country to country. However in the US, IMHO I believe that patriotism would be for the loyalty and upholding of the fundamental principle of freedom to all peoples.

 

[Kandahar]

what is patriotism? loyalty to one's government? loyalty to one's people? the word is thrown around a lot, but rarely defined.

An irrational belief that people who live in the same place as one's self are superior to all others.

 

[talloulou]

An irrational belief that people who live in the same place as one's self are superior to all others.

I don't see it as superiority at all. I see it more as love for ones country and putting into perspective where ones loyalty lies. For me, my loyalty lies first and foremost with my family, then my neighbors, my community, my city, my state, and then my country. And believe you me if we were attacked by aliens tomorrow we would all suddenly unite as human earthlings. That's just the way loyalty works. You protect what's yours first. That doesn't mean you don't care about others or that you will act selfishly it just means when push comes to shove you know where your loyalty lies. And having pride for ones country is a good thing. If you have pride in something you will value it, protect it, and work always to make it better. When you don't have pride in something it's easier to just not care and let it go to hell in a hand basket.

 

[FallingPianos]

If you have pride in something you will value it, protect it, and work always to make it better. When you don't have pride in something it's easier to just not care and let it go to hell in a hand basket.

this part I dont think is necessarily true. sometimes people are driven to improve things because they are ashamed of the current situation.

 

[talloulou]

this part I dont think is necessarily true. sometimes people are driven to improve things because they are ashamed of the current situation.

Well I believe people take better care of the things they value. And yes ultimately if everything turns to complete crap around you...if you hit rock bottem....eventually you may be inspired to clean the mess up. But I'm not ready to flush my country down the toilet in the hopes that things will eventually get soooo shameful that people will be inspired to improve it.

 

[disneydude]

In my opinion:

A lot of people on these boards confuse patriotism with blind allegiance and flag-waving without purpose.

A lot of people like to stand on their high horse and talk about objects like the American flag without recognizing the principles for which is stands.

Patriotism is standing up for the principles and freedoms of this country not supporting those who seek to take away those freedoms in the name of "morality".

 

[FallingPianos]

But I'm not ready to flush my country down the toilet in the hopes that things will eventually get soooo shameful that people will be inspired to improve it.

very few people are. people that are unsatisfied with their country do one of 3 things: nothing, try do improve it as they see fit, or move away. very few people are out to distroy it.

 

[talloulou]

very few people are. people that are unsatisfied with their country do one of 3 things: nothing, try do improve it as they see fit, or move away. very few people are out to distroy it.

You're right I don't think the liberals are operating with the "intention" of destroying our country....they're just misguided. :rofl

 

[talloulou]

In my opinion:

A lot of people on these boards confuse patriotism with blind allegiance and flag-waving without purpose.

A lot of people like to stand on their high horse and talk about objects like the American flag without recognizing the principles for which is stands.

Patriotism is standing up for the principles and freedoms of this country not supporting those who seek to take away those freedoms in the name of "morality".

Yeah it does get confusing....for instance when I disliked Clinton I was still patriotic. You can totally hate Bush and be a patriot. However if you're over in the middle east bashing the USA then I think maybe you're not a patriot. If you're meeting with the Saudi's and telling them how our country is crap then you're loyalty is seriously in question. However if you're in the USA complaining to fellow Americans that's cool.

It's kind of like how I can insult my family. But if someone else did I'd be pissed. So if I'm talking to my sister about what a moron my brother is....that's cool. However if my sister is talking to an arab about my brother being a jerk than that's not so cool. Does that make sense? Or am I redneck racist hick?

Aaah I should stay in the basement today. I quit smoking. :rofl

 

[FallingPianos]

You're right I don't think the liberals are operating with the "intention" of destroying our country....they're just misguided. :rofl

so are conservatives. I dont like being associated with either. :mrgreen:

 

[Kandahar]

And believe you me if we were attacked by aliens tomorrow we would all suddenly unite as human earthlings.

I've thought about this, and reached the opposite conclusion. I see no way that the United States would ever unite with Kim Jong-il or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to defend ourselves. I find it much more likely that one side would attempt to form an alliance with the aliens to kill their human enemies.

That's just the way loyalty works. You protect what's yours first. That doesn't mean you don't care about others or that you will act selfishly it just means when push comes to shove you know where your loyalty lies. And having pride for ones country is a good thing. If you have pride in something you will value it, protect it, and work always to make it better. When you don't have pride in something it's easier to just not care and let it go to hell in a hand basket.

Why does this same line of thinking not apply to, say, white pride? What makes pride in one's country a virtue, but pride in one's race a vice?

 

[Deegan]

I've thought about this, and reached the opposite conclusion. I see no way that the United States would ever unite with Kim Jong-il or Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to defend ourselves. I find it much more likely that one side would attempt to form an alliance with the aliens to kill their human enemies.



Why does this same line of thinking not apply to, say, white pride? What makes pride in one's country a virtue, but pride in one's race a vice?

Well when you say, "white pride" there is an obvious label attached to that, but to be proud of your heritage, nothing wrong with that, I'm proud to be Irish for instance.

 

[jfuh]

Well when you say, "white pride" there is an obvious label attached to that, but to be proud of your heritage, nothing wrong with that, I'm proud to be Irish for instance.

No offense, but I think this is what a lot of ppl are completely xenophobic about. Particularily those that march around with US flags wrapped around them to counter the immigration movement. When some ppl see those of foriegn decent marching around with thier ethnic flags, which happen to also be national flags of other countries, there's this xenophobic impulse so it seems. But fact is lots of nations are strictly one ethnicity or culture. ie, irish, sweedish, Chinese, Japanese, so on.

Perhaps it would be wishful thinking on my part, however I believe that we opened up to allow for greater immigration, actively recruiting "productive" and highly educated individuals, ie the foreigners getting PhD degrees in US academic institutions, I believe that a huge portion of illegal immigration can be easily curtailed. However I wonder as to how much it would curtain those simply climbing a fence.
The fact that both local and federal government's are doing nearly nothing at all about the illegal crossings is a betrayal of the ppl to which these officials swore to serve as public servants. However all we get today regardless of red or blue are coorperate servants, or economic slaves. There are many more things in this country that are equally as important as the economy.
Raise the minimum wage which has been stuck since 1998 and then see if Americans will want to take these so called "unwanted" jobs.

 

[Kandahar]

Raise the minimum wage which has been stuck since 1998 and then see if Americans will want to take these so called "unwanted" jobs.

Are you serious? The minimum wage is the reason so many employers hire illegal immigrants in the first place. If we raised it, it would just encourage MORE illegal immigration. Instead of taking all the jobs that are worth less than $5.15 an hour, they'd take all the jobs that are worth less than $7 an hour (or whatever the new minimum wage was).

If we want to let Americans compete for those jobs, we should get rid of the minimum wage entirely.

 

[jfuh]

Are you serious? The minimum wage is the reason so many employers hire illegal immigrants in the first place. If we raised it, it would just encourage MORE illegal immigration. Instead of taking all the jobs that are worth less than $5.15 an hour, they'd take all the jobs that are worth less than $7 an hour (or whatever the new minimum wage was).

If we want to let Americans compete for those jobs, we should get rid of the minimum wage entirely.

The minimum wage argument is directed at the "illegals take the job that no one wants".
What do you propose? Obviously such jobs still require ppl to do them.

 

[LouDobbs4President]

It means you fight for what the constitution gives us and you fight for the rights of all Americans. You question the government when they do things that don't up hold our founding fathers vision. It's a lot of things to a lot of people.

 

[Spartacus FPV]

To me, patriotism is defending the constitution against all enemies, foreign or domestic.

 

[HTColeman]

what is patriotism? loyalty to one's government? loyalty to one's people? the word is thrown around a lot, but rarely defined.

As far as the U.S., it is definitely NOT loyalty to one's government. The gov't is for the people, the people are not for the gov't. Loyalty to one's people is debatable, b/c what if your people are wrong? Personally, I'll repeat one someone else said, loyalty to the country's principles.

 

[talloulou]

Perhaps it would be wishful thinking on my part, however I believe that we opened up to allow for greater immigration, actively recruiting "productive" and highly educated individuals, ie the foreigners getting PhD degrees in US academic institutions, I believe that a huge portion of illegal immigration can be easily curtailed.

We have tons of educated people who have been waiting for years to become legal immigrants. I'm not sure what you're saying here. Many of the illegal immigrants put a huge strain on our economy. Why should illegals just cross the border and demand citzenship without waiting in line like everyone else? And if we just made our borders completely open and allowed everyone and anyone immediate citzenship wouldn't that put even more strain on our economy?

 

[scottyz]

And believe you me if we were attacked by aliens tomorrow we would all suddenly unite as human earthlings.

Is that you Reagan?