What do you think of the No Labels party?

[Geoist]

I was watching a news article on this and found it interesting. This party is neither Democrat nor Republican but they do have the ability to affect the 2024 election. This really depends on whether they choose a Democrat or Republican as the leader of their party. It could actually take votes from either party. We could laugh this off, but Ross Perot received almost 19% of the popular vote in 1992. If they chose someone like Liz Cheney or Chris Sununu it could take votes away from Republicans. However, if they chose a strong Democrat it could take votes away from Democrats. Bottom line is that they don't want to see another Trump vs. Biden match.

A No Labels presidential candidate can’t win — but could determine who does

In an interview a few days ago, Lieberman expressed ambivalence about Biden, but not about Trump.

thehill.com

It's a corporate interests party. But if they nominate someone that takes votes from the GOP then more power to them. They'll just never get my vote.

 

[Perotista]

Yeah, when I read that comment about a Manchin lead, my reaction was HUH???, when did that happen? Unless Tangmo can point me to some other evidence I haven't seen, I agree with you.

Maybe he didn’t realize the 8-24 – 8 -26 was for August of 2022, not this year which in May, 2023. Justice has a 22-point lead. Manchin is the only democrat to be elected statewide in what may be the reddest state in the nation. Which is ironic as 20 or so years ago, West Virginia was the bluest.

 

[dseag2]

You should have done that actual research yourself instead of blind posting bullshit.

I'll let the fact that my "bullshit post drew over 100 responses and created more awareness for No Labels speak for itself. Pick your battles and have a nice life.

 

[Perotista]

Read the post above this one... the choices do not come down to what you wish for but one is in STARK CONTRAST to the other..... one with no redeeeming qualities or justification whatsoever and the other without a facts supported argument for rejection. Bi-partisanshp? Post that you believe Republicans would pass unilaterally, a bill like the Inflation Reduction Act that would be most beneficial financially per capita to four blue states?

You ignored or did not read my comment in another exchange with my pointing out voters in the 1972 election overwhelmingly rejected the honest presidential candidate, a WWII vet tarred as a commie by G.O.P., in favor of criminals Agnew and Nixon.

How many years has it taken for the G.O.P. lies about medicaid expansion to be overcome by actual experience? How many years until independents understand tht the InfrastructureImprovement bill, supported only by a few Republicans in exchange for continued starving of IRS appropriations and the Inflation Reduction ACT are keeping us from the recession effects of quickest, largest Fed hikes in history and from the full consequences of global warming, and the Chips Act from effects of China's inevitable destruction of Taiwan, while the investrment in that prevention domestically, is pouring in, now?

I didn’t ignore. I just wanted to point out one first must win an election. It doesn’t matter how good a candidate is or how bad. If he can’t win, he can’t govern. We’re facing an election in 2024 between two candidates that are very much disliked and not wanted to become the next president by America as a whole, All of Americans. Not an ideal situation running a candidate that gives Trump a 50-50 shot when one wants to make sure Trump is never elected again. But that is the Democrats choice. Not mine nor is it the 63% of all Americans who don’t want Biden to run again.

Do any Democrats ever think about winning an election? That should be addressed to both major parties with their choice of who they seem dead set on running. I didn’t want to denigrate Biden, I wanted to point out by running Biden that the Democrats are giving Trump his best chance of regaining the White House. I like Joe, I voted for Joe in 2020. I’d never vote for Trump; I dislike him too much for probably different reasons than you. But I would be remiss if I didn’t point out that Biden is at this point, the weakest candidate the Democrats could run against Trump. The numbers back that statement up.

What I don’t understand is why the Democrats are dead set on running a candidate that stands a 50-50 chance of losing to Trump. Why are the Democrats knowingly running a candidate in which 63% of all Americans don’t want them to run? Worse yet, 67% of independents don’t want Biden to run again. That’s important since Biden won independents in 2020 54-41 over Trump. Can Biden, the Democrats afford to split the independent vote or lose them to Trump? Think some. Play the election strategist. Take away that 13-point advantage Biden had with independents in 2020, he loses his 7 million plus vote advantage he won the popular vote by in 2020. Biden received approximately 28 million votes from independents in 2020 vs. 20 million for Trump. In other words, an even split with independents means Biden would lose the popular vote. Electoral vote wise, who knows? Biden won on the backs of independents, not the democratic base which makes up around 30% of the electorate. I agree with this article.

When is the optimal time for Biden to drop out of the race?

When is the optimal time for Biden to drop out of the race?

If the Democratic National Committee is going to open up the primary to other candidates, the sooner the better.

thehill.com

 

[gbg3]

Nobody's stopping you from seeing them. No one's going to bring them in to you on a platter either, Mitt. This isn't a Republican binders full of women thingy.

Given though you'd "like to see them" as in have them brought in to you, you'd have to PM me to find out about my professional research activities. They're pretty steep of course. Super high quality and all that.

Or you could search WVA senate polls 2023 -- there are 4 or 5 of 'em presently. Maybe RCP doesn't like 'em or trust 'em.

I'm anyway confident you could find the pleasing results you're not up to searching for if you only tried. Yeah, the most recent polls have switched around to put Justice in the lead these dayze. You piqued me to take a fresh look thx. Now it's up to you and you alone. Because it's clear RCP can't help you either, for whatever reason.

Happy Hunting !

Kind of what I was beginning to realize - comment 49 was just a tossed out and incorrect comment about Manchin, with no source or legitimacy.

 

[Tangmo]

I wanted to point out by running Biden that the Democrats are giving Trump his best chance of regaining the White House.

What I don’t understand is why the Democrats are dead set on running a candidate that stands a 50-50 chance of losing to Trump. Why are the Democrats knowingly running a candidate in which 63% of all Americans don’t want them to run? Worse yet, 67% of independents don’t want Biden to run again.

It's the same beating the dead horse data again and again. As if saying it two dozen times in each thread were going to change Biden being the nominee. The repetition that is predictable and determined is intended to do damage.

It's the same hollering at Democrats while the White House gang of J6 are swept under the proverbial rug of your posts. It's Trump who said to "terminate" the Constitution not Biden.

The worst thing that can happen to the political party that holds the presidency is for a primary fight to occur. It virtually guarantees defeat in the general election.

I reiterate in this post that Trump is the guy who said to "terminate" the Constitution. Biden would never say that or any such thing. Trump is the second American president to do this, the first being Jefferson Davis who ended up in an American jail.

I've seldom seen over 5 decades in politics such unrelenting fanaticism as from the Peroistas against the Democrats and Biden in this that may be America's last election cycle. MAGA is not going to surrender power voluntarily however it may be gained, to include using democracy to destroy democracy.

 

[Tangmo]

Kind of what I was beginning to realize - comment 49 was just a tossed out and incorrect comment about Manchin, with no source or legitimacy.

WVA Gov. Jim Justice shows his dog during during a tirade in his state of the state speech in the chamber of the state House of Representatives during the joint session of the legislature on Jan. 18, 2022.

In a tweet, West Virginia Democratic Del. Shawn Fluharty took the governor to task. “The WVGovernor brought his Babydog and pony show to the State of the State and pulled this stunt as some bold statement. It was nothing short of embarrassing and beneath the office,” he said. “Jim Justice habitually lowers the bar of our state. They don’t laugh with us, but at us.”

West Virginia governor tells Bette Midler to kiss dog’s ‘heinie’ — and shows it | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

CHARLESTON, W.Va. >> Gov. Jim Justice has a message for singer and actress Bette Midler, who called West Virginians “poor, illiterate and strung out” in a tweet after Sen. Joe Manchin refused to support President Joe Biden’s Build Back Better Act.

www.staradvertiser.com

 

[Individual]

What would attract voters to vote for a candidate(s) of a party labeling itself as the "No Labels" party?
In a Democracy, elections are won by the candidates who have presented themselves to an adequate total number of voters who have made their choice based on one or more issues, none of which necessarily have the support of even a simple majority of all voters.

 

[Perotista]

It's the same beating the dead horse data again and again. As if saying it two dozen times in each thread were going to change Biden being the nominee. The repetition that is predictable and determined is intended to do damage.

It's the same hollering at Democrats while the White House gang of J6 are swept under the proverbial rug of your posts. It's Trump who said to "terminate" the Constitution not Biden.

The worst thing that can happen to the political party that holds the presidency is for a primary fight to occur. It virtually guarantees defeat in the general election.

I reiterate in this post that Trump is the guy who said to "terminate" the Constitution. Biden would never say that or any such thing. Trump is the second American president to do this, the first being Jefferson Davis who ended up in an American jail.

I've seldom seen over 5 decades in politics such unrelenting fanaticism as from the Peroistas against the Democrats and Biden in this that may be America's last election cycle. MAGA is not going to surrender power voluntarily however it may be gained, to include using democracy to destroy democracy.

It’s simple, if the Democrats run Biden, numbers back this up, not just talking points and meaningless political rhetoric, the Democrats are giving knowingly, I repeat knowingly, that they want and desire for Trump to have a 50-50 shot at regaining the white house. Their actions prove the democrats really don’t give an owl’s hoot of the stuff you continue to spout. If they did, they’d be searching and end up nominating a candidate that most Americans want to run, not one that 63% of all Americans don’t want to run. Breaking it down, 23% of all Americans want Biden to run, 63% do not, 16% not sure. Among Democrats, Democrats only 42% want Biden to run again, 38% do not, 20% not sure, undecided. Even among Democrats, there’s quite a lot of them very leery about Biden’s chances of winning. Question 21

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/01qmicwezl/econTabReport.pdf

I agree with this article from the Hill.

When is the optimal time for Biden to drop out of the race?

When is the optimal time for Biden to drop out of the race?

If the Democratic National Committee is going to open up the primary to other candidates, the sooner the better.

thehill.com

 

[gbg3]

WVA Gov. Jim Justice shows his dog during during a tirade in his state of the state speech in the chamber of the state House of Representatives during the joint session of the legislature on Jan. 18, 2022.

In a tweet, West Virginia Democratic Del. Shawn Fluharty took the governor to task. “The WVGovernor brought his Babydog and pony show to the State of the State and pulled this stunt as some bold statement. It was nothing short of embarrassing and beneath the office,” he said. “Jim Justice habitually lowers the bar of our state. They don’t laugh with us, but at us.”

West Virginia governor tells Bette Midler to kiss dog’s ‘heinie’ — and shows it | Honolulu Star-Advertiser

CHARLESTON, W.Va. >> Gov. Jim Justice has a message for singer and actress Bette Midler, who called West Virginians “poor, illiterate and strung out” in a tweet after Sen. Joe Manchin refused to support President Joe Biden’s Build Back Better Act.

www.staradvertiser.com

Your original comment was about strong Manchin polling. It was unsupported and now you are scrambling all over the place.

 

[gbg3]

It’s simple, if the Democrats run Biden, numbers back this up, not just talking points and meaningless political rhetoric, the Democrats are giving knowingly, I repeat knowingly, that they want and desire for Trump to have a 50-50 shot at regaining the white house. Their actions prove the democrats really don’t give an owl’s hoot of the stuff you continue to spout. If they did, they’d be searching and end up nominating a candidate that most Americans want to run, not one that 63% of all Americans don’t want to run. Breaking it down, 23% of all Americans want Biden to run, 63% do not, 16% not sure. Among Democrats, Democrats only 42% want Biden to run again, 38% do not, 20% not sure, undecided. Even among Democrats, there’s quite a lot of them very leery about Biden’s chances of winning. Question 21

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/01qmicwezl/econTabReport.pdf

I agree with this article from the Hill.

When is the optimal time for Biden to drop out of the race?

When is the optimal time for Biden to drop out of the race?

If the Democratic National Committee is going to open up the primary to other candidates, the sooner the better.

thehill.com

More about that from the Hill today too:

"When they are talking about the possibility of replacing Biden at the editor’s desk at reliable left-leaning media outlets, you can bank on the fact that they are talking about it at cocktail parties in New York, Chicago, and San Francisco. And if they are talking about it at power gatherings of the donor class, they are talking about it in the backrooms of the Democratic National Committee — not to mention the as-yet unofficial “Newsom for President” and “Booker 2024” headquarters."

The evidence mounts that Democrats are souring on Biden

When politicians lose their own advocates in the media, their futures become increasingly uncertain.

thehill.com

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[Airyaman]

The Libertarian Party is better than the No Labels Party. Libertarians stand for Liberty and Freedom - - the No Labels Party doesn't really stand for anything.

Liberty and Freedom are the best things to strive for in a country. The "No Labels" Party isn't up to speed on this. (IMO)

The LP is full of kooks and weirdos. And this is coming from someone whose ideology used to conform closest to the LP until they went MAGA lite.

 

[Perotista]

More about that from the Hill today too:

"When they are talking about the possibility of replacing Biden at the editor’s desk at reliable left-leaning media outlets, you can bank on the fact that they are talking about it at cocktail parties in New York, Chicago, and San Francisco. And if they are talking about it at power gatherings of the donor class, they are talking about it in the backrooms of the Democratic National Committee — not to mention the as-yet unofficial “Newsom for President” and “Booker 2024” headquarters."

The evidence mounts that Democrats are souring on Biden

When politicians lose their own advocates in the media, their futures become increasingly uncertain.

thehill.com

Thanks, that reinforces what I’ve been saying to Tangmo. We do have this poll on Biden running again where 42% of Democrats want Biden to run again, 38% don’t. Question 21.

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/01qmicwezl/econTabReport.pdf

Independents have already soured on Biden as attesting to the 67% who don’t want him to run again. Biden won independents by 13 points in 2020. I don’t think he can afford to have Trump or any other Republican win independents. Which it seems independents are leaning toward voting Republican if Biden is the Democratic nominee. Question 25 is the trial heat. Independents are giving Biden only a 31% overall job approval vs. 60% disapproval. All of which doesn’t bode well for Biden’s chances.

I think it’s time for the Democrats to do a huge reevaluation of running Biden. The last thing they need is for Biden to look old and feeble, totally lacking energy and being very uninspiring come the general election campaign regardless of who his opponent is.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

It's a grift. Any political party, anywhere, that seeks longterm legitimacy will always start with local elections, move up to state elections, then national elections. In contrast, a grift will start with national elections because that is where the big donor money is at even though they have no chance at all of winning.

 

[gbg3]

Thanks, that reinforces what I’ve been saying to Tangmo. We do have this poll on Biden running again where 42% of Democrats want Biden to run again, 38% don’t. Question 21.

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/01qmicwezl/econTabReport.pdf

Independents have already soured on Biden as attesting to the 67% who don’t want him to run again. Biden won independents by 13 points in 2020. I don’t think he can afford to have Trump or any other Republican win independents. Which it seems independents are leaning toward voting Republican if Biden is the Democratic nominee. Question 25 is the trial heat. Independents are giving Biden only a 31% overall job approval vs. 60% disapproval. All of which doesn’t bode well for Biden’s chances.

I think it’s time for the Democrats to do a huge reevaluation of running Biden. The last thing they need is for Biden to look old and feeble, totally lacking energy and being very uninspiring come the general election campaign regardless of who his opponent is.

I also don't want either of them (Trump or Biden) to be the nominees.
But, I am really feeling like the end result may be Biden not ending up the nominee (I'm thinking Newsom will be) and Trump being the GOP nominee. Trump's base of support is just remaining super strong and he'll be so hard to beat in a primary.
Biden, on the other hand, never really had that enthusiastic base and I think he'll get pushed out later this summer.

 

[gbg3]

It’s simple, if the Democrats run Biden, numbers back this up, not just talking points and meaningless political rhetoric, the Democrats are giving knowingly, I repeat knowingly, that they want and desire for Trump to have a 50-50 shot at regaining the white house. Their actions prove the democrats really don’t give an owl’s hoot of the stuff you continue to spout. If they did, they’d be searching and end up nominating a candidate that most Americans want to run, not one that 63% of all Americans don’t want to run. Breaking it down, 23% of all Americans want Biden to run, 63% do not, 16% not sure. Among Democrats, Democrats only 42% want Biden to run again, 38% do not, 20% not sure, undecided. Even among Democrats, there’s quite a lot of them very leery about Biden’s chances of winning. Question 21

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/01qmicwezl/econTabReport.pdf

I agree with this article from the Hill.

When is the optimal time for Biden to drop out of the race?

When is the optimal time for Biden to drop out of the race?

If the Democratic National Committee is going to open up the primary to other candidates, the sooner the better.

thehill.com

I agree with the article that sooner is better than later. I know the Dems are resisting replacing Biden because of what history says the outcome will be if they do, but as your link points out - some of that has to do with timing. Right now, they still have time for Newsom or another to put forth a strong campaign.
I think, despite the worries about not going with the incumbent, the Dems will soon decide to risk of sticking with Biden outweighs the risk of going with someone else and soon.
Then we'll see what the GOP does. I think a lot will depend on how Trump is polling against the new Dem. If the new Dem is leading Trump by a fair amount, I think the GOP might finally decide they have to go with someone else. But if Trump is leading, I think it will remain Trump and even if Trump isn't leading, it still might be Trump. He's got so much powerful support from his base and it seems nearly impossible for any other GOP candidate to overcome.

 

[Perotista]

I also don't want either of them (Trump or Biden) to be the nominees.
But, I am really feeling like the end result may be Biden not ending up the nominee (I'm thinking Newsom will be) and Trump being the GOP nominee. Trump's base of support is just remaining super strong and he'll be so hard to beat in a primary.
Biden, on the other hand, never really had that enthusiastic base and I think he'll get pushed out later this summer.

Very possible. I think if the democrats go with a fresh young face instead of Biden that will increase their chances of winning tremendously. Independents still don’t like Trump if he is the nominee. Their dislike of him has been constantly around 60% negative or unfavorable.since he first showed up. 58% negative or unfavorable from independents as of 5 July in this poll, question 2B vs. 38% favorable or positive.

https://docs.cdn.yougov.com/kpnwbn3sup/econTabReport.pdf

Here's the favorable/unfavorable of all the political leaders.

htmlclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/other/FavorabilityRatingsPoliticalLeaders.html

Seems none of them are liked much by all Americans. Which in my opinion shows the value of a fresh, younger face running for the presidency next year.

 

[Perotista]

I agree with the article that sooner is better than later. I know the Dems are resisting replacing Biden because of what history says the outcome will be if they do, but as your link points out - some of that has to do with timing. Right now, they still have time for Newsom or another to put forth a strong campaign.
I think, despite the worries about not going with the incumbent, the Dems will soon decide to risk of sticking with Biden outweighs the risk of going with someone else and soon.
Then we'll see what the GOP does. I think a lot will depend on how Trump is polling against the new Dem. If the new Dem is leading Trump by a fair amount, I think the GOP might finally decide they have to go with someone else. But if Trump is leading, I think it will remain Trump and even if Trump isn't leading, it still might be Trump. He's got so much powerful support from his base and it seems nearly impossible for any other GOP candidate to overcome.

I agree. I haven’t spent much time on Trump, his weaknesses are obvious. Especially with independents. He can’t win them unless his opponent is Biden. Then too, we don’t know what will happen with all these indictments, trials if they happen prior to the election and more to come, Georgia for instance. Trump’s power is within the GOP, not out of it and is especially disliked and distrusted in the group of voters he must win to regain the presidency, independents.

 

[gbg3]

I agree. I haven’t spent much time on Trump, his weaknesses are obvious. Especially with independents. He can’t win them unless his opponent is Biden. Then too, we don’t know what will happen with all these indictments, trials if they happen prior to the election and more to come, Georgia for instance. Trump’s power is within the GOP, not out of it and is especially disliked and distrusted in the group of voters he must win to regain the presidency, independents.

Both parties are in a big jam, IMO. As you point out often, both men are super unpopular (in general and they will be in a general election).
Ds have the incumbency issue and the Kamala issue. Both are complicated. They are struggling to decide whether or not to take a big leap away from those two. And they don't have the luxury of time.
Rs have the Trump base of support issue and the problem of their elites not having control of the party like the Dem elites have control of their party.
For the Ds, it's more about what their elites decide.
For the Rs, it's more about what the primary voters decide.

I think the first move (should there be one as I expect later this summer) will be from the Dems booting Biden. Then, everything will be shuffled, we'll see what the polls tell us, and we'll see if the GOP voters then change their minds based on the Dems making a big move.

If the Dems don't make that move, then the GOP has until the primaries to make up their minds. Even if the Dems do boot Biden, the GOP has some time to ponder the situation as they watch polling.

The party with the big imminent decision right now - is the Dems. They will soon run out of "reasonable and logical" time.

 

[gbg3]

Oops, I just glanced at the thread title and realized how far off topic my recent comments have been, leaving out No Labels.

A No Labels entry would certainly be a big move impacting the entire election! Just from a pure election interest standpoint, I hope it happens. What a fascinating election year that jolt would provide.

 

[Juin]

It’s so stupid. I really hate when people pretend they have no political ideology or bias. That simply isn’t a thing. It’s not possible.

They stand for nothing.

 

[Tangmo]

I also don't want either of them (Trump or Biden) to be the nominees.
But, I am really feeling like the end result may be Biden not ending up the nominee (I'm thinking Newsom will be) and Trump being the GOP nominee. Trump's base of support is just remaining super strong and he'll be so hard to beat in a primary.
Biden, on the other hand, never really had that enthusiastic base and I think he'll get pushed out later this summer.

Newsome would be my alternative choice, yeah.

Newsome would wipe the floor with any Republican nominee and the vast majority of Democrats and flakey and dizzy Independents know this.

Newsome is a classy guy who's been subtle and low key about his ambitions. He's a very sharp intelligent and savvy guy who used to be mayor of SFO.

Ol' Joe is doing his job from 2020 but he'd have to know it's time for the party and country to move on to the next generation of leadership.

I mean, if Trump should win in 2024 the imperative of the civilian controlled armed forces would definitely and positively be to cut him off at the knees before he took the oath. A solid Newman win would preclude this.

 

[Perotista]

Both parties are in a big jam, IMO. As you point out often, both men are super unpopular (in general and they will be in a general election).
Ds have the incumbency issue and the Kamala issue. Both are complicated. They are struggling to decide whether or not to take a big leap away from those two. And they don't have the luxury of time.
Rs have the Trump base of support issue and the problem of their elites not having control of the party like the Dem elites have control of their party.
For the Ds, it's more about what their elites decide.
For the Rs, it's more about what the primary voters decide.

I think the first move (should there be one as I expect later this summer) will be from the Dems booting Biden. Then, everything will be shuffled, we'll see what the polls tell us, and we'll see if the GOP voters then change their minds based on the Dems making a big move.

If the Dems don't make that move, then the GOP has until the primaries to make up their minds. Even if the Dems do boot Biden, the GOP has some time to ponder the situation as they watch polling.

The party with the big imminent decision right now - is the Dems. They will soon run out of "reasonable and logical" time.

Again, I agree. It’s the Dems that have the big imminent decision to make. I don’t think Biden can really undergo a strenuous general election campaign without looking weak and lacking energy, looking old. Then too as you pointed out is the Harris factor. It seems that survivability for 4 more years by Biden could be a huge election issue. Harris isn’t wanted if something were to happen to Biden. Biden looks weak and feeble now. Times, circumstances, situations change. Biden was the candidate to beat Trump in 2020. No doubt about that. But he was mostly everyone’s second choice vaulted to the top by the Democrats having their only priority of defeating Trump. 2024 isn’t 2020, it’s time the Democrats realize that.

 

[Tangmo]

I agree. I haven’t spent much time on Trump, his weaknesses are obvious. Especially with independents. He can’t win them unless his opponent is Biden. Then too, we don’t know what will happen with all these indictments, trials if they happen prior to the election and more to come, Georgia for instance. Trump’s power is within the GOP, not out of it and is especially disliked and distrusted in the group of voters he must win to regain the presidency, independents.

Everything to you is Independents and your superiority.

Yet I've said to you many times so called independents go with the political party base that establishes the dominant narrative of the given election cycle.

If Newsome might succeed Biden Newsome might carry idiot independents by 9 or so points. I'll take that but it's not exactly awesome.