What do you mean when you say we need to secure our border?

[dairyair]

The very first step is to simply tell them in no uncertain terms not to come. Trump knew how to do this. Biden/Harris did not.

Yet they still came under trump.

Stay home is not a fix.

 

[dairyair]

The federal government is not short on revenue. What’s missing is will, and especially so in blue states.

LOL. This is not a STATE's issue.
It's actually no one's issue. That's why neither party addresses it.

Immigration is a political football that is not to be addressed by congress.

Because golf courses and hotels need that labor. Just ask trump. He has many immigrants in his employ.

 

[dairyair]

Rubbish. We have existing law against illegal immigration. We have a well funded government. You’re simply making excuses.



Again, excuses.

That's the core of trump. Don't take responsibility, according to him, and blame blame blame with excuses.

It's what got him fired after his 1st term.

 

[dairyair]

Our Immigration and Asylum laws needed reforms like yesterday. They are from the 1970's and do not address today's realities.

We need more modern technology at our borders, more border agents, and more asylum judges.

We could have had all of the above, but Donald Trump killed a comprehensive bipartisan border security bill last February.

CNN | GOP senators seethe as Trump blows up delicate immigration compromise

The Hill | History confirms Republicans rejected a once-in-a-lifetime immigration opportunity

R's in congress don't really want to fix the immigration issues.
They like that cheap labor.
Especially at their golf courses and hotels.

 

[dairyair]

Rubbish. We have existing law against illegal immigration. We have a well funded government. You’re simply making excuses.



Again, excuses.

And in 2017/18, congress and WH was under R control
Yet, Congress and WH did nothing to address immigration.

But they are good with excuses.

 

[dmpi]

Yet they still came under trump.

Stay home is not a fix.

If you can't handle the simple free solution then it's pointless discussing anything more complex.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

We all know we don't have the type of 'open borders' the way some folks imply, we do however have people crossing our borders illegally, that however does not mean they are the hardened criminals some folks like to paint them to be either.

So, when you say secure our borders, what do you mean and how do we accomplish the task?

Ok, let’s act like we are smart and can see things for what the numbers show them to be. Like we can look at things and DISCERN them for what they are.

What we have is the strongest economy on the face of the planet.

We have a whole lot of people who want a part of that. They know it’s illegal not to wait their turn but they make the attempt because if they succeed it will be profitable.

We have people, on our side of the border, holding up signs saying, ‘We hire the undocumented.” They know it’s against the law, but it’s profitable. So they do it.

We have a handful of people, they know the guns, drugs and people they traffic in are illegal but they see an opportunity to hide it successfully because we aren’t managing this migration of economic refugees well and they can hide among them. They do this because it is profitable.

They are ALL doing different parts of that which is a problem to us but they are ALL doing it for the same reason. They do it to profit by it.

The answer is to remove the profit.

You want it to stop? Common sense than. Deal with the 10’s of thousands breaking the law on THIS SIDE of the border instead of the millions on the other side. Arrest those breaking our laws and hiring the undocumented. Punish them. Make it unprofitable.

Then the jobs go away. It’s not profitable to make the attempt to come in illegally anymore. They stop. The Forrest disappears, the trees doing the trafficking have no place to hide anymore. Law enforcement can see them. They are getting caught. It’s no longer profitable. They stop.

This isn’t rocket science folks. Common sense solves this rather readily. We have the laws required already in the books. Either enforce them and deal with the $6 tomato and the $12/lb chicken, or fix it another way. Document the cheap labor crossing the border and let them do our work so that those looking to profit from them will, and they can make a buck to send home where they can’t make one.

 

[BitterPill]

Actively enforce immigration law.

It sure is a handy cudgel to beat Harris about her head and shoulders.

That's why I am glad Trump made the GOP abandon the latest bipartisan immigration bill.

Bipartisanship is for lib-prog and RINO suckers -- total losers.

MAGA.

 

[Gozaburo]

It's been sustainable for over 250 yrs so far.
This country exists as it does today from the back of immigrants.

Myopic take.

The circumstances are totally different now. We're not an industrializing ascendant nation with unexplored frontiers anymore. 250 years ago the vast majority of immigrants didn't come from a place we shared a border with (or) immigrants that could access via that physical border. We're now the hegemonic global empire of the planet with vast amounts of wealth and influence. We aren't industrializing, we're deindustrializing and transitioning more and more into a service economy which is overloaded with low income, low skills jobs that are set for automation as soon as robotics catches up with AI.

I think there's bipartisan agreement that infinite growth by definition is unsustainable. There is a pending population crisis that one day is not going to be solvable by importing infinite immigrants from the global south. I'd rather start brainstorming solutions to that problem now than kick the can down the road for my grandkids to deal with.

 

[BlueTex]

The very first step is to simply tell them in no uncertain terms not to come. Trump knew how to do this. Biden/Harris did not.

Do you think they are unaware of US asylum laws?

 

[noonereal]

Actively enforce immigration law.

How?
Congress will not allocate resources to do this.

Bush could not do it. Obie could not do it. Trump could not do it and Biden could not do it.

Even with the Congress, if they ever act, it will never be accomplished.

My idea, just roll the military through all the counties down to the Panama cancel. Easy to then stop the flow from beneath. The countries above makes states.

Easy peezy

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Myopic take.

The circumstances are totally different now. We're not an industrializing ascendant nation with unexplored frontiers anymore. 250 years ago the vast majority of immigrants didn't come from a place we shared a border with (or) immigrants that could access via that physical border. We're now the hegemonic global empire of the planet with vast amounts of wealth and influence. We aren't industrializing, we're deindustrializing and transitioning more and more into a service economy which is overloaded with low income, low skills jobs that are set for automation as soon as robotics catches up with AI.

I think there's bipartisan agreement that infinite growth by definition is unsustainable. There is a pending population crisis that one day is not going to be solvable by importing infinite immigrants from the global south. I'd rather start brainstorming solutions to that problem now than kick the can down the road for my grandkids to deal with.

See #32

 

[noonereal]

There is a pending population crisis that one day is not going to be solvable by importing infinite immigrants

Population crisis in the west is not over population.

 

[dairyair]

If you can't handle the simple free solution then it's pointless discussing anything more complex.

Correct. You get the results one pays for.

And telling people not to come will stop about 1 if that?
If you want to discuss some actions, then offer something of value. Otherwise it's pointless to even discuss.

Also, one should understand USA and International laws regarding migrants before said discussion begins.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

How?
Congress will not allocate resources to do this.

Bush could not do it. Obie could not do it. Trump could not do it and Biden could not do it.

Even with the Congress, if they ever act, it will never be accomplished.

My idea, just roll the military through all the counties down to the Panama cancel. Easy to then stop the flow from beneath. The countries above makes states.

Easy peezy

Walk into the board rooms of Tyson Foods, Hilton Hotels, Friday’s Restaurants, a few of the larger regional landscaping and construction outfits and arrest them for hiring the undocumented. Then make examples of them.

Even Easier Peezier.

 

[dairyair]

Y

Myopic take.

The circumstances are totally different now. We're not an industrializing ascendant nation with unexplored frontiers anymore. 250 years ago the vast majority of immigrants didn't come from a place we shared a border with (or) immigrants that could access via that physical border. We're now the hegemonic global empire of the planet with vast amounts of wealth and influence. We aren't industrializing, we're deindustrializing and transitioning more and more into a service economy which is overloaded with low income, low skills jobs that are set for automation as soon as robotics catches up with AI.

I think there's bipartisan agreement that infinite growth by definition is unsustainable. There is a pending population crisis that one day is not going to be solvable by importing infinite immigrants from the global south. I'd rather start brainstorming solutions to that problem now than kick the can down the road for my grandkids to deal with.

Yet, we still welcome and need immigrant labor to sustain USA economy.

What is the solution?
Why do you think neither party has addressed immigration policies?

Also, some 250 yrs ago, that land near the southern border was actually Mexico's land.

 

[noonereal]

Walk into the board rooms of Tyson Foods, Hilton Hotels, Friday’s Restaurants, a few of the larger regional landscaping and construction outfits and arrest them for hiring the undocumented. Then make examples of them.

Even Easier Peezier.

I still prefer just taking over.
Christ, look at history. The big dog always takes what it wants. Why should we be different?

 

[brianpatrick]

Secure the border means finish the border wall so the Democrats can’t flee the country before Trump’s gestapo rounds them up.

 

[dairyair]

Ok, let’s act like we are smart and can see things for what the numbers show them to be. Like we can look at things and DISCERN them for what they are.

What we have is the strongest economy on the face of the planet.

We have a whole lot of people who want a part of that. They know it’s illegal not to wait their turn but they make the attempt because if they succeed it will be profitable.

We have people, on our side of the border, holding up signs saying, ‘We hire the undocumented.” They know it’s against the law, but it’s profitable. So they do it.

We have a handful of people, they know the guns, drugs and people they traffic in are illegal but they see an opportunity to hide it successfully because we aren’t managing this migration of economic refugees well and they can hide among them. They do this because it is profitable.

They are ALL doing different parts of that which is a problem to us but they are ALL doing it for the same reason. They do it to profit by it.

The answer is to remove the profit.

You want it to stop? Common sense than. Deal with the 10’s of thousands breaking the law on THIS SIDE of the border instead of the millions on the other side. Arrest those breaking our laws and hiring the undocumented. Punish them. Make it unprofitable.

Then the jobs go away. It’s not profitable to make the attempt to come in illegally anymore. They stop. The Forrest disappears, the trees doing the trafficking have no place to hide anymore. Law enforcement can see them. They are getting caught. It’s no longer profitable. They stop.

This isn’t rocket science folks. Common sense solves this rather readily. We have the laws required already in the books. Either enforce them and deal with the $6 tomato and the $12/lb chicken, or fix it another way. Document the cheap labor crossing the border and let them do our work so that those looking to profit from them will, and they can make a buck to send home where they can’t make one.

Have you ever noticed, not many suggest going after the employers that hire illegals?

Why? That would be the fastest way to slow immigration. If they can't find work, they won't likely come.

 

[Gozaburo]

Population crisis in the west is not over population.

Yeah that's what was implied, genius.

See #32

Yet, we still welcome and need immigrant labor to sustain USA economy.

What is the solution?
Why do you think neither party has addressed immigration policies?

Also, some 250 yrs ago, that land near the southern border was actually Mexico's land.

Neither party has addressed the issue because both parties are owned by capitalists who want cheap labor and more consumers for their products.

 

[ModernDiogenes]

Have you ever noticed, not many suggest going after the employers that hire illegals?

Why? That would be the fastest way to slow immigration. If they can't find work, they won't likely come.

I hate to say it but…

Could it be that there are a number of us who look at something like this and, for whatever reason, assume dealing with millions of poor Brown people is easier than thousands of rich White folk?

Just saying… {shrugging shoulders}.

 

[OrphanSlug]

I guess we can have this conversation... again.

"Secure our borders" is a campaign statement, nothing more, fits on a social media meme or 15 second ad. Allows for an argument using the political optics of one candidate suggesting better enforcement of immigration laws against the suggestion of what the other guy did, or would be doing, in office. There is some truth, not complete truth but some, that usually Democrats lack the political will to be more forward in enforcement of existing immigration law than their Republican counterparts, but ultimately that is just political rhetoric cannon fodder.

The real truth is during Trump's first term in office of the "400 miles of border wall completed" was actually 80 miles of new barrier, and only 47 miles of that was primary wall. The vast majority of is dealing with existing structures in areas of the border approved and built by previous US administrations including Obama. What Trump reduced was "legal immigration" using various means, including Covid, to restrict visas drastically then used the same subject of Covid to handle illegal immigration.

The very subject he wanted to downplay for one political purpose he amped up for another political purpose. Did Trump achieve better numbers? Well yes, but not really because of him but because of conditions he weaponized to his advantage that his supporters and enablers conveniently forget. Another odd truth, apprehensions are actually up under Biden than they were under Trump.

Biden waited too long but by the time the Senate got together and do more Trump decided, yet again, the politics of the issue were more important than substance. Killed the bill, told his audience what to the reason was, then turned around and complained about it to the roaring cheers of his White Nationalist base.

No one in the modern era has achieved total "secure border" with no one coming over legal and illegal. But this is being treated as a light-switch debate, on or off scenario, and it makes everyone very disingenuous about what is and is not achievable. Including what Trump actually did, and how, and why.

 

[eman623]

We all know we don't have the type of 'open borders' the way some folks imply, we do however have people crossing our borders illegally, that however does not mean they are the hardened criminals some folks like to paint them to be either.

So, when you say secure our borders, what do you mean and how do we accomplish the task?

It means when someone shows up at the border without authorization, you don't let them in.

If the claim they were persecuted in their home country and are requesting asylum, you give them a court date and send them back to wait in the country they crossed over from.

It mean if people are here illegally and commit a crime, they don't get released back into the general population. They get deported immediately

Are you getting the picture?

 

[brianpatrick]

Yeah that's what was implied, genius.


View attachment 67538615



Neither party has addressed the issue because both parties are owned by capitalists who want cheap labor and more consumers for their products.

I think the problem is we already have a pretty secure border. At least one as secure as possible in a free democratic country under the rule of law, more or less. If the border were anything like “wide open” the problem of illegal immigration would be 100x bigger, or more.

Mandatory E-verify would stop illegal immigration, but it would also create huge inflation and economic strife for many Americans. Not just for those employers that hire them but for everyone.

We could easily create a legal guest worker program with a path to citizenship for these workers that followed the law and honored their agreements.

 

[brianpatrick]

It means when someone shows up at the border without authorization, you don't let them in.

If the claim they were persecuted in their home country and are requesting asylum, you give them a court date and send them back to wait in the country they crossed over from.

It mean if people are here illegally and commit a crime, they don't get released back into the general population. They get deported immediately

Are you getting the picture?

This is just trimming the tree. If you want to solve the problem, cut the tree down and dig out the root.