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What do you mean when you say we need to secure our border?

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bongsaway

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We all know we don't have the type of 'open borders' the way some folks imply, we do however have people crossing our borders illegally, that however does not mean they are the hardened criminals some folks like to paint them to be either.

So, when you say secure our borders, what do you mean and how do we accomplish the task?
 
bongsaway said:
We all know we don't have the type of 'open borders' the way some folks imply, we do however have people crossing our borders illegally, that however does not mean they are the hardened criminals some folks like to paint them to be either.
Click to expand...

What do you mean by this? The situation is chaotic enough that our own institutions cannot even concretely tell us the approximate number of illegals in the country with very conservative estimates being at least 11 million... and possibly as high as 20+ million. This doesn't even breach the subject of legal immigration, which is far more complex and nuanced.

bongsaway said:
So, when you say secure our borders, what do you mean and how do we accomplish the task?
Click to expand...

Where there is a political will, there is a way. The question is not whether or not we can deport millions of people. It's a question of justification. Many immigration restrictionists will cite economic concerns - more competitive job markets, depressed wages, higher demand in housing & healthcare, greater burden on taxpayer and social safety nets, etc. There's also the sociocultural angle. For instance, if you prefer a quality of life and cultural attitude that can be found in the Midwest which is largely European and Christian, then you might have a problem with importing millions of Hindu tech workers from India who have a very distinct and separate social fabric and social standard.

So in summary the problem with immigration has nothing to do with mechanics. We are the most powerful empire in human history and possess the most powerful military and logistical network ever conceived. It would be no problem. The issue is generating the political will and then finding politicians who will act on behalf of the people.
 
We have a legal immigration process that's thorough, fair and ensures the safety of our citizens. 'Securing the border' ensures ALL immigrants are following that process.
 
bongsaway said:
We all know we don't have the type of 'open borders' the way some folks imply, we do however have people crossing our borders illegally, that however does not mean they are the hardened criminals some folks like to paint them to be either.

So, when you say secure our borders, what do you mean and how do we accomplish the task?
Click to expand...
You may recall Trump had far greater success in diminishing the numbers coming through the border. Those executive actions were within days of Biden taking office rescinded them resulting in the flow to the border we now see. You may recall the democrats hated the chaotic situation at the border while Trump was in office. They railed and ranted about it until Biden came in office.

There have been some very gruesome murders by illegal immigrants. Percent wise very small but can you imagine the outrage of the families when they're loved one was killed by a person who shouldn't have been here in the first place?

We have a robust legal immigration system that records a million new immigrants per year (most in the world). We should streamline it and commit to 2 million per year. Also I'm in favor of granting citizenship to men or women who qualify to join the military for a four year hitch.
 
dmpi said:
We have a legal immigration process that's thorough, fair and ensures the safety of our citizens. 'Securing the border' ensures ALL immigrants are following that process.
Click to expand...
20,000 pedestrians, 70,000 vehicles. That's the northbound traffic every day at one crossing point. San Ysidro, near San Diego.
All legal crossings. Illegal immigrants cross legally, then stay illegally.

en.wikipedia.org

San Ysidro Port of Entry - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

But hey, spend billions to prevent Juan from wading across the river with his clothes bundled on his head. The companies that provide material and labour for The Wall will appreciate the business, even if the landowners aren't enthusiastic about it.
 
bongsaway said:
We all know we don't have the type of 'open borders' the way some folks imply, we do however have people crossing our borders illegally, that however does not mean they are the hardened criminals some folks like to paint them to be either.

So, when you say secure our borders, what do you mean and how do we accomplish the task?
Click to expand...
One thing they don't mean is that we have to watch out for all the Caucasian and Asian visa overstays that come through our airports every day.

They mean immigrants of color.
 
We do not have “open borders” but Congress has an uncanny habit of not devoting enough resources to the nations problems.

Except if it involves war profiteering….
 
Our Immigration and Asylum laws needed reforms like yesterday. They are from the 1970's and do not address today's realities.

We need more modern technology at our borders, more border agents, and more asylum judges.

We could have had all of the above, but Donald Trump killed a comprehensive bipartisan border security bill last February.

CNN | GOP senators seethe as Trump blows up delicate immigration compromise

The Hill | History confirms Republicans rejected a once-in-a-lifetime immigration opportunity
 
Unchecked illegal crossings, I would think. That should be as close to zero as possible.
 
NatMorton said:
Actively enforce immigration law.
Click to expand...

Catch and release then. All a border jumper has to say (in English, Spanish, whatever) is "I am seeking asylum" and then they go up the back of a very long queue.

How would you change that? US taxpayer going to pay for detention of asylum seekers (for years)?
 
NatMorton said:
Rubbish. We have existing law against illegal immigration. We have a well funded government. You’re simply making excuses.
Click to expand...

Asylum is a massive hole in the "existing law" and neither party want to pay for hotel rooms for asylum seekers.

When you see the bill, it will be you "making excuses." You can say "Mexico will pay for it" but what's your next move if they refuse?
 
bongsaway said:
We all know we don't have the type of 'open borders' the way some folks imply, we do however have people crossing our borders illegally, that however does not mean they are the hardened criminals some folks like to paint them to be either.

So, when you say secure our borders, what do you mean and how do we accomplish the task?
Click to expand...
Enforcing deportation when visas expire, and devastating penalties to businesses found employing illegals, to include someone they hired legally but who's visa has expired since.
 
Gozaburo said:
What do you mean by this? The situation is chaotic enough that our own institutions cannot even concretely tell us the approximate number of illegals in the country with very conservative estimates being at least 11 million... and possibly as high as 20+ million. This doesn't even breach the subject of legal immigration, which is far more complex and nuanced.



Where there is a political will, there is a way. The question is not whether or not we can deport millions of people. It's a question of justification. Many immigration restrictionists will cite economic concerns - more competitive job markets, depressed wages, higher demand in housing & healthcare, greater burden on taxpayer and social safety nets, etc. There's also the sociocultural angle. For instance, if you prefer a quality of life and cultural attitude that can be found in the Midwest which is largely European and Christian, then you might have a problem with importing millions of Hindu tech workers from India who have a very distinct and separate social fabric and social standard.

So in summary the problem with immigration has nothing to do with mechanics. We are the most powerful empire in human history and possess the most powerful military and logistical network ever conceived. It would be no problem. The issue is generating the political will and then finding politicians who will act on behalf of the people.
Click to expand...
What?
I thought 10M came in just under Biden's term.
If one believes MAGA.

Anyway's, this immigration topic has been a topic for decades and decades.
Odd neither part has done much to address the issue.

A logical conclusion as to why neither party cares to address issues is because the USA actually needs those migrants to keep the economy humming along.
 
dairyair said:
A logical conclusion as to why neither party cares to address issues is because the USA actually needs those migrants to keep the economy humming along.
Click to expand...

Partially true. The capitalists require cheap labor and lots of consumers to power the economy. Whether or not that is a sustainable practice and whether or not that should be the only consideration when discussing immigration is a totally different subject though.
 
dmpi said:
We have a legal immigration process that's thorough, fair and ensures the safety of our citizens. 'Securing the border' ensures ALL immigrants are following that process.
Click to expand...
How do you propose to secure all the borders around the USA?
How do you propose paying for such vast border protection? What is the cost? Any ideas?
 
Gozaburo said:
Partially true. The capitalists require cheap labor and lots of consumers to power the economy. Whether or not that is a sustainable practice and whether or not that should be the only consideration when discussing immigration is a totally different subject though.
Click to expand...
It's been sustainable for over 250 yrs so far.
This country exists as it does today from the back of immigrants.
 
dairyair said:
How do you propose to secure all the borders around the USA?
How do you propose paying for such vast border protection? What is the cost? Any ideas?
Click to expand...
The very first step is to simply tell them in no uncertain terms not to come. Trump knew how to do this. Biden/Harris did not.
 
DrewPaul said:
You may recall Trump had far greater success in diminishing the numbers coming through the border. Those executive actions were within days of Biden taking office rescinded them resulting in the flow to the border we now see. You may recall the democrats hated the chaotic situation at the border while Trump was in office. They railed and ranted about it until Biden came in office.

There have been some very gruesome murders by illegal immigrants. Percent wise very small but can you imagine the outrage of the families when they're loved one was killed by a person who shouldn't have been here in the first place?

We have a robust legal immigration system that records a million new immigrants per year (most in the world). We should streamline it and commit to 2 million per year. Also I'm in favor of granting citizenship to men or women who qualify to join the military for a four year hitch.
Click to expand...
That's the problem with EOs.
They are only temporary fixes. But, the most effective was a result of covid. So, there's not much for trump to hang his hat on. Covid ended and the EO based on covid ended also.

Congress must fix issues, EOs don't fix anything. They are temporary. And the country can't function solely on EOs.
 
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