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What do you do when you don't like the jobs numbers? Fire the Director of Labor Statistics

Michael Cole said:
You know what makes a difference? Fake economic numbers. Very dangerous.

Whether you accept this makes no difference. Propping up the economy with fake numbers will result in huge losses. Disaster.
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And it will add to the ever-growing decline in America's credibility abroad.
 
Nickyjo said:
And the proof that the numbers were presented for corrupt political purposes is…?

Oh, I forgot. Trump so frequently doesn’t offer proof. To some of his followers his accusations are all the proof necessary.
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I'm sure he'll get some good toady to suddenly "find" the proof.
 
Roadvirus said:
And it will add to the ever-growing decline in America's credibility abroad.
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Imagine being a foreign trade negotiator and Trump's agent gives you cooked books.

Trump wants two things to be true at once. That foreign countries are ripping us off, and that we have the "hottest" economy in the world. As a negotiator, I tactfully grin and kindly leave, holding the laughter for the waiting limo.

One of the factors in the 2008 crash was rating agencies giving A+ ratings to instruments they knew were risky. Exactly what Trump wants to do.
 
Trump isn't the first autocratic leader who blames and terminates subordinate officials for surveys that "don't come out right". Stalin punished his census officials in 1937 when they published the Soviet census that showed a population of just 162 million people, which exposed the missing "8 million" who died in Stalin's famines, gulags and purges.

Stalin claimed the head of the project, Nikolai Geroidov and his statisticians, survey officials, and others were "counter-revolutionary" and "Trotskyist-revisionists". Most of them were either sent to the Gulag or died (executed) in custody.

In 1939 a quickly written new census was published, and the "wrong" numbers expunged from the records. After Stalin's death, the data of 1937 was restored to the record and the 1939 fiction was discredited.

Trump, thankfully, does not (yet) have the power to do more than fire people who don't manufacture the fake data he likes. However, there is one character that he must identify with, Johnny Roco in Key Largo...(note the "count the votes over and over again till they come out right'. "

 
Mycroft said:
So...CNN didn't even ASK for evidence.

Okay.

btw, after looking at Trump's statement, it's clear he DID, in fact, provide evidence.

I was just informed that our Country’s “Jobs Numbers” are being produced by a Biden Appointee, Dr. Erika McEntarfer, the Commissioner of Labor Statistics, who faked the Jobs Numbers before the Election to try and boost Kamala’s chances of Victory. This is the same Bureau of Labor Statistics that overstated the Jobs Growth in March 2024 by approximately 818,000 and, then again, right before the 2024 Presidential Election, in August and September, by 112,000. These were Records — No one can be that wrong? We need accurate Jobs Numbers. I have directed my Team to fire this Biden Political Appointee, IMMEDIATELY. She will be replaced with someone much more competent and qualified. Important numbers like this must be fair and accurate, they can’t be manipulated for political purposes. McEntarfer said there were only 73,000 Jobs added (a shock!) but, more importantly, that a major mistake was made by them, 258,000 Jobs downward, in the prior two months. Similar things happened in the first part of the year, always to the negative.​

So...CNN lied.
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What evidence are you referring to? trump's claim that those numbers are wrong? He certainly hasn't had time to rerun the numbers to confirm or refute them, besides it's always the same bullshit with trump, if he loses an election, it was stolen from him, some news organization prints a less than
glowing story about him, it's fake news, he sends a birthday card to a pedophile, suddenly claims he never draws pictures. The drama never ends with that piece of crap.
 
maxparrish said:
In America, everyone has a presumption of innocence, including the fired official.
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ummm...

This isn't a criminal case. It's not about guilt or innocense.
 
mike2810 said:
and the issue I have unless President Trump has evidence of the person is cooking the numbers his opinion is not justification.
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Too bad. I don't think Trump gives a rat's ass if you have an issue.
Roadvirus said:
So he can just fire someone willy nilly for "corruption" without evidence?

I seriously doubt that.
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He can.

Roadvirus said:
We'll see what a court of law has to say about that.
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Oh? Is someone taking this to court?
 
Integrityrespec said:
What do you do when the person in charge of tabulating numbers is so far off? Keep them in the job that they apparently can't handle?
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First, you verify that the numbers are in fact wrong, then you determine why the numbers are wrong, human error, computer glitch or intentional
misreporting.
 
Kelby said:
He's brought a whole new 3-D level to percentages.
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Wasn't it just a week or so ago trump said he was going to lower prescription prices 1000%, maybe even 1200%? trump math!!!
 
T.
Mycroft said:
So...CNN didn't even ASK for evidence.

Okay.

btw, after looking at Trump's statement, it's clear he DID, in fact, provide evidence.

I was just informed that our Country’s “Jobs Numbers” are being produced by a Biden Appointee, Dr. Erika McEntarfer, the Commissioner of Labor Statistics, who faked the Jobs Numbers before the Election to try and boost Kamala’s chances of Victory. This is the same Bureau of Labor Statistics that overstated the Jobs Growth in March 2024 by approximately 818,000 and, then again, right before the 2024 Presidential Election, in August and September, by 112,000. These were Records — No one can be that wrong? We need accurate Jobs Numbers. I have directed my Team to fire this Biden Political Appointee, IMMEDIATELY. She will be replaced with someone much more competent and qualified. Important numbers like this must be fair and accurate, they can’t be manipulated for political purposes. McEntarfer said there were only 73,000 Jobs added (a shock!) but, more importantly, that a major mistake was made by them, 258,000 Jobs downward, in the prior two months. Similar things happened in the first part of the year, always to the negative.​

So...CNN lied.
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Therein is the problem that everyone has been pointing out to you - MAGA folk think Trump's bottomless well of follow-up unsupported accusations and use of innuendo are a form of "evidence" - they may be a form of evidence of Trump's character or mental state, but this is not evidence that she manipulated or fabricated the recent monthly jobs reports for “political purposes.” Examine what he said:

- He made an added accusation that she faked the job numbers before the election to boost Kamala's chances but another accusation isn't evidence that she did so here, or for that matter then. It's just another set of unsupported accusations.

- That BLM labor statistics has in the past often overstated or understated estimated job growth and that the BLM frequently and routinely revises it later isn't evidence that it is was either intentionally manipulated or falsified NOR is it "evidence" that it happened here.

- Nor is anything Trump said about downward revisions evidence; downward trending economies it makes it more likely revisions will trend downward than upward.

Trump is simply grasping at straws and making more tangential accusations because he has no evidence that she manipulated or fabricated the numbers out of malice or for political reasons.

So ya, CNN was right - Trump presented no evidence of actual wrong-doing.
 
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maxparrish said:
T.


Therein is the problem that everyone has been pointing out to you - MAGA folk think Trump's bottomless well of follow-up unsupported accusations and use of innuendo are a form of "evidence" - they may be a form of evidence of Trump's character or mental state, but this is not evidence that she manipulated or fabricated the recent monthly jobs reports for “political purposes.” Examine what he said:

- He made an added accusation that she faked the job numbers before the election to boost Kamala's chances but another accusation isn't evidence that she did so here, or for that matter then. It's just another set of unsupported accusations.

- That BLM labor statistics has in the past often overstated or understated estimated job growth and that the BLM frequently and routinely revises it later isn't evidence that it is was either intentionally manipulated or falsified NOR is it "evidence" that it happened here.

- Nor is anything Trump said about downward revisions evidence; downward trending economies it makes it more likely revisions will trend downward than upward.

Trump is simply grasping at straws and making more tangential accusations because he has no evidence that she manipulated or fabricated the numbers out of malice or for political reasons.

So ya, CNN was right - Trump presented no evidence of actual wrong-doing.
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All this nonsense about "evidence" is a red herring created by CNN.

CNN created an issue that is irrelevant and you...and everyone else...picked up that irrelevant issue and are running around like chickens with your heads chopped off.

The bottom line is that Trump isn't REQUIRED to present any evidence. Hell, he doesn't even have to give the public a reason for firing the lady...even though he DID give his reasons.
 
Mycroft said:
The bottom line is that Trump isn't REQUIRED to present any evidence.
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Maybe/maybe not.

But he made a serious accusation. He said she manipulated the numbers to influence a Presidential election. If i were accusing someone of that, i'd sure as shit make sure i had my evidence at hand, ready to be given to anyone who'd want to see it.

Making that kind of a public accusation without evidence is just inviting a civil suit.
 
Roadvirus said:
Maybe/maybe not.

But he made a serious accusation. He said she manipulated the numbers to influence a Presidential election. If i were accusing someone of that, i'd sure as shit make sure i had my evidence at hand, ready to be given to anyone who'd want to see it.

Making that kind of a public accusation without evidence is just inviting a civil suit.
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He doesn't need evidence. She isn't being criminally charged with anything. He dealt with her by firing her.

End of story.

Now...if she wants to try to file a lawsuit...all I can say is "Good luck".
 
Roadvirus said:
And it will add to the ever-growing decline in America's credibility abroad.
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The decline of our credibility? Abroad? Who cares about *ABROAD*? Going full Soviet Union "just make the data up so that we look good to the rest of the world" is ruinous to us here at home, because individuals, firms and public agencies have to be able to rely on the data when making their own decisions regarding hiring, firing, investment, etc. If the data being presented is not simply compiled using a flawed methodology, but an actively mendacious one that is made to make the government look good, it will cause terrible knock-on effects that we can only just barely begin to predict.

If everything is make to look rosier than it is, we will be ruined the moment the slightest disaster strikes.
 
Mycroft said:
Says who? CNN?

What steps did they take to determine there is no evidence?
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1. No evidence has been presented.
2. Since it is impossible to manipulate the data, there cannot be any evidence.
2A. After accusations by a fired Census employee that he had been ordered to fake data for the Current Population Survey for political reasons, the Census OIG investigated and found that he had faked some numbers, but it made no difference to the end results and he had not been ordered to do so, and concluded that actual manipulation was impossible.
3. Former BLS commissioners from both the Left (Katharine Abraham) and Right (Keith Hall) have confirmed that such manipulation cannot happen.

And to remind you, I worked at BLS as an economist for over a decade, teaching methodology: there are simply too many variables, and too many people involved, that even if you wanted to, there’s no way to do it.
 
Mycroft said:
All this nonsense about "evidence" is a red herring created by CNN.

CNN created an issue that is irrelevant and you...and everyone else...picked up that irrelevant issue and are running around like chickens with your heads chopped off.

The bottom line is that Trump isn't REQUIRED to present any evidence. Hell, he doesn't even have to give the public a reason for firing the lady...even though he DID give his reasons.
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bs.
Trump made a statement on why he fired her. He and no one has proven the statement of cooking the books is true.

It is interesting how you support someone who would fire someone on just a "belief".
 
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