What constitutes a national security threat?

[NWRatCon]

I posted this reference in another thread, but I think it deserves consideration in its own thread. I've held various security clearances through three decades of government service, so I have been on the receiving end of investigations. I have also advised on adjudications for people applying for security clearances as part of my official duties. I think this is a good reference for understanding how to evaluate a National Security Threat:

ADJUDICATIVE GUIDELINES FOR DETERMINING ELIGIBILITY FOR ACCESS TO CLASSIFIED INFORMATION
Subpart A—Adjudicative Guidelines
Sec.
147.1Introduction.
147.2Adjudicative process.
147.3Guideline A—Allegiance to the United States.
147.4Guideline B—Foreign influence.
147.5Guideline C—Foreign preference.
147.6Guideline D—Sexual behavior.
147.7Guideline E—Personal conduct.
147.8Guideline F—Financial considerations.
147.9Guideline G—Alcohol consumption.
147.10Guideline H—Drug involvement.
147.11Guideline I—Emotional, mental, and personality disorders.
147.12Guideline J—Criminal conduct.
147.13Guideline K—Security violations.
147.14Guideline L—Outside activities.
147.15Guideline M—Misuse of information technology systems.

With that in mind, I'd like to have a reasonable discussion of how important National Security threats really are, and people who may constitute such threats in the current political milieu.

 

[phoenix2020]

147.3 catches my eye. If a person pledges loyalty first and foremost to Donald Trump, is it even possible for them to make good on any pledge of allegiance to the country?

 

[NWRatCon]

147.3 catches my eye. If a person pledges loyalty first and foremost to Donald Trump, is it even possible for them to make good on any pledge of allegiance to the country?

I think that's a good question. I hope, though, that this doesn't devolve only into another pro-con Trump thread. He does constitute, however, probably the biggest national security threat, considering he ticks most of the boxes. (Indeed, I can only identify two he arguably doesn't tick: G&H; although I'm not as sure about the latter.)

But Trump is not alone on the threat matrix. I think it is important to focus on what security experts view as threats.

 

[phoenix2020]

I think that's a good question. I hope, though, that this doesn't devolve only into another pro-con Trump thread. He does constitute, however, probably the biggest national security threat, considering he ticks most of the boxes.

But Trump is not alone on the threat matrix. I think it is important to focus on what security experts view as threats.

Where in those guidelines falls the mere matter of discipline? I have been responsible for and investigated many a corporate security threat. In most cases the root cause was sloppiness. Inattentiveness. Lack of discipline. Laziness. Disinterest in the job, or not taking it seriously.

I’d fully ascribe the incidents of both Biden and Trump taking secure records as examples of this rather than something deliberate or malicious, for example.

 

[Slavister]

I’d fully ascribe the incidents of both Biden and Trump taking secure records as examples of this rather than something deliberate or malicious, for example.

Don't know about Biden, but boxes and boxes of top secret documents in Trump bathrooms and everywhere is certainly deliberate AND malicious.

 

[SNOWFLAKE]

How about stupid people?

(and we know on which side of the political spectrum they breed, don't we?)

 

[NWRatCon]

Don't know about Biden, but boxes and boxes of top secret documents in Trump bathrooms and everywhere is certainly deliberate AND malicious.

Let's look at Guideline K—Security violations.

(a) The concern. Noncompliance with security regulations raises doubt about an individual's trustworthiness, willingness, and ability to safeguard classified information.
(b) Conditions that could raise a security concern and may be disqualifying include.
(1) Unauthorized disclosure of classified information;
(2) Violations that are deliberate or multiple or due to negligence.
(c) Conditions that could mitigate security concerns include actions that:
(1) Were inadvertent;
(2) Were isolated or infrequent;
(3) Were due to improper or inadequate training;
(4) Demonstrate a positive attitude towards the discharge of security responsibilities.

Do a compare and contrast and one can easily (if honest) understand why Jack Smith preferred charges and Robert Hur did not.

 

[phoenix2020]

Don't know about Biden, but boxes and boxes of top secret documents in Trump bathrooms and everywhere is certainly deliberate AND malicious.

Agree to disagree. I think it was simple carelessness and not taking things seriously.

(Obviously, lying about having them and refusing to return them was a completely different matter.)

 

[NWRatCon]

Where in those guidelines falls the mere matter of discipline? I have been responsible for and investigated many a corporate security threat. In most cases the root cause was sloppiness. Inattentiveness. Lack of discipline. Laziness. Disinterest in the job, or not taking it seriously.

I’d fully ascribe the incidents of both Biden and Trump taking secure records as examples of this rather than something deliberate or malicious, for example.

I can't agree. In Biden's case, I would agree, but there is too much evidence surrounding Trump's behavior to establish that it was both deliberate and malicious. One does not obstruct justice without specific intent. If the documents had merely been returned when discovered, I would agree, but the rest of the circumstances counsel otherwise. Trump wasn't just sloppy, he was particularly devious. But you are correct in this: He didn't take security seriously.

 

[Slavister]

Agree to disagree. I think it was simple carelessness and not taking things seriously.

(Obviously, lying about having them and refusing to return them was a completely different matter.)

I don't think this is carelessness or not deliberate when you share such documents with 3rd parties...:

"Donald Trump improperly stored in his Florida estate sensitive documents on nuclear capabilities, repeatedly enlisted aides and lawyers to help him hide records demanded by investigators and cavalierly showed off a Pentagon “plan of attack” and classified map, according to a sweeping felony indictment that paints a damning portrait of the former president’s treatment of national security information."

source

"Prosecutors claimed Trump presented classified information to other people on two occasions.

The indictment presents evidence that Trump shared information about a "plan of attack" against another country to a writer and publisher who visited his Bedminster, New Jersey, golf club in July 2021.

"Secret. This is secret information," Trump told them, the indictment said."

source

 

[tshade]

The biggest threat to national security is an irrational & irresponsible citizenry.........

 

[NWRatCon]

The biggest threat to national security is an irrational & irresponsible citizenry.........

Although I understand your position, and we, ultimately, bear responsibility for our government, one should not discount the malevolent actors who influence public thought, like the "neo-reactionaries", Bannon, Manafort and their ilk. Don't forget that virtually no dictator came to power backed by the majority. Trump is no exception.

 

[Lovebug]

Although I understand your position, and we, ultimately, bear responsibility for our government, one should not discount the malevolent actors who influence public thought, like the "neo-reactionaries", Bannon, Manafort and their ilk. Don't forget that virtually no dictator came to power backed by the majority. Trump is no exception.

Herr Hitler was a master thereof.