What can we do about gun violence?

[Rich2018]

It's your claim. You support it.

Literally a 2 second search:

List of mass shootings in the United States in 2023 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[RF667799]

Literally a 2 second search:

List of mass shootings in the United States in 2023 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Where does it support your claim?

 

[CLAX1911]

Where does it support your claim?

It doesn't this claim seems to be we should restrict rights based on the people that abuse them.

We don't say that all freedom of speech is limited because some people say slanderous things.

 

[RF667799]

It doesn't this claim seems to be we should restrict rights based on the people that abuse them.

We don't say that all freedom of speech is limited because some people say slanderous things.

In fact, he earlier justified removal of rights and civil liberties on the basis that only a minority was affected.

I can hardly fathom such a disgusting mindset. Must be drilled in early to some of these unfortunates that were raised in authoritarian regimes.

 

[CLAX1911]

In fact, he earlier justified removal of rights and civil liberties on the basis that only a minority was affected.

I can hardly fathom such a disgusting mindset. Must be drilled in early to some of these unfortunates that were raised in authoritarian regimes.

It's the mentally of the subject justifying removal of Rights is strictly simping for dictatorship. The only solutions they see for any problem is government dominance. It's a form of masochism

 

[uptower]

Licensing violates the Constitution. See Murdock v Pennsylvania and Watchtower v Village of Stratton.
"Universal" background checks are neither effective nor enforceable.
We can't even arrest a criminal for failing to register a firearm, and the gun control advocates talk way too much about confiscation for gun owners to buy into a registry. Every straw purchase has a de facto registry yet that doesn't keep straw purchases from being one of the leading sources of guns to criminals.

Yeah there'd be hurdles. But legal opinions may change one day.

 

[CLAX1911]

Yeah there'd be hurdles. But legal opinions may change

This shouldn't be in the hands of lawmakers the way it should work is they don't interfere with our rights because they're afraid of us but that's the only reason you have any rights.

 

[uptower]

Licenses might work, if coupled with mandatory gun registration

But many (perhaps even most) mass shootings are committed by people with no previous record of gun violence.

But not necessarily a clean record altogether. To get a gun license in places like the UK od NZ they do a thorough background check and any other red flags such as mental illness, family violence or gang association may result in being declined. It's not foolproof but fewer bad apples slip through.

 

[CLAX1911]

But not necessarily a clean record altogether. To get a gun license in places like the UK od NZ they do a thorough background check and any other red flags such as mental illness, family violence or gang association may result in being declined. It's not foolproof but fewer bad apples slip through.

I'm sorry but they don't do background checks here they say they do but it's a scam. They use something called the NICS database the agencies that would report to them like local state and federal police departments aren't required to so maybe 20% of disqualifying things actually gets reported to this database.

Anybody who talks about background checks as though it's some sort of measure to inhibit violence is I know where what a scam it is. I don't know why people don't expect better out of their government.

You can't talk about background checks without first acknowledging that there is a fundamental problem with background checks.

I know I'm on the wrong side and therefore everything I say is absolutely wrong all the time no matter what, but no background check is going to matter at all if there isn't the background to check let's study up and get informed on this stuff please.

 

[Rucker61]

Yeah there'd be hurdles. But legal opinions may change one day.

So when that legal opinion happens decades out you have a point. Given Bruen and this Court, you need to live in the now.

 

[uptower]

So when that legal opinion happens decades out you have a point. Given Bruen and this Court, you need to live in the now.

We are living in the now. Unfortunately it involves a lot of gun violence and mass shootings.

Nothing wrong with imagining a future where that's less of problem, or how pathways to that future might look.

 

[Rucker61]

We are living in the now. Unfortunately it involves a lot of gun violence and mass shootings.

Nothing wrong with imagining a future where that's less of problem, or how pathways to that future might look.

So given the now, what should we do?

 

[Bum]

What can we do about gun violence?​

Lock up repeat felons and firearms offenders instead of releasing them?
I know...crazy idea.
Some folks would scream "racist".

 

[uptower]

So given the now, what should we do?

Start moving in that direction. Stricter background checks and proper enforcement and more:

Draft laws, fight them through senate floors and court challenges, and implement regulations that don’t take such a narrow, ‘purist’ view of the constitution that gun proliferation is allowed to continue virtually unchecked. Unfortunately all that can be done now is try to start the process of change. The results will come sadly, many years and many many lives later.

We’ve done this bit before Rucker, change takes time.

 

[Rich2018]

Where does it support your claim?

Read it. Take a dozen or so examples and see who the shooter(s) was/were:

eg: May 21, Nash, Texas
"Four family members have died and a suspect is in custody following a two-hour standoff late Tuesday morning in Nash, Texas. Bowie County sheriff's deputies said.
Ceasar Olalde, 18, surrendered after a two-hour standoff on Lemon Acres Lane on the west side of Texarkana."

4 family members dead in Bowie County, deputies say

NASH, Texas - Four family members have died and a suspect is in custody following a two-hour standoff late Tuesday morning in Nash, Texas. Bowie County sheriff's deputies said.

www.ktbs.com

How many examples of a mass shooting committed by someone, who'd been previously disqualified from owning guns, can you give ?
I'd be willing to bet that many (perhaps most) incidents involved people with no prior history of felonies.

 

[Rucker61]

Start moving in that direction. Stricter background checks and proper enforcement and more:

Draft laws, fight them through senate floors and court challenges, and implement regulations that don’t take such a narrow, ‘purist’ view of the constitution that gun proliferation is allowed to continue virtually unchecked. Unfortunately all that can be done now is try to start the process of change. The results will come sadly, many years and many many lives later.

We’ve done this bit before Rucker, change takes time.

So repeal the Second.

We've been through this before.

 

[RF667799]

Read it. Take a dozen or so examples and see who the shooter(s) was/were:

eg: May 21, Nash, Texas
"Four family members have died and a suspect is in custody following a two-hour standoff late Tuesday morning in Nash, Texas. Bowie County sheriff's deputies said.
Ceasar Olalde, 18, surrendered after a two-hour standoff on Lemon Acres Lane on the west side of Texarkana."

4 family members dead in Bowie County, deputies say

NASH, Texas - Four family members have died and a suspect is in custody following a two-hour standoff late Tuesday morning in Nash, Texas. Bowie County sheriff's deputies said.

www.ktbs.com

How many examples of a mass shooting committed by someone, who'd been previously disqualified from owning guns, can you give ?
I'd be willing to bet that many (perhaps most) incidents involved people with no prior history of felonies.

I'm not researching your claim for you. You haven't even defined what you meant by mass shooters.

 

[uptower]

So repeal the Second.

We've been through this before.

I still believe that future courts will decide gun regulations do not actually circumvent the constitution by merely existing and that gun laws and restrictions can coexist with the second amendment without ‘infringing’ the basic right.

The fact that Bruen has not led to a slew of laws concerning type, availability, conceal and open carry laws and accessories being overturned in all states demonstrates this. There is no great push to either overturn the amendment or laws that appear to ‘circumvent’ it in states where the far right does not control the legislature. Indeed, more Americans want gun reform than don’t. That’s wiggle room.

 

[Rucker61]

I still believe that future courts will decide gun regulations do not actually circumvent the constitution by merely existing and that gun laws and restrictions can coexist with the second amendment without ‘infringing’ the basic right.

The fact that Bruen has not led to a slew of laws concerning type, availability, conceal and open carry laws and accessories being overturned in all states demonstrates this. There is no great push to either overturn the amendment or laws that appear to ‘circumvent’ it in states where the far right does not control the legislature. Indeed, more Americans want gun reform than don’t. That’s wiggle room.

"Future". Wish in one hand...

You should research the cases SCOTUS has GVRd since Bruen, and the cases that lower courts have overturned. AWBs, capacity limits, concealed carry, background checks, age limits, etc. All those votes on the coast don't matter one bit.

 

[uptower]

"Future". Wish in one hand...

You should research the cases SCOTUS has GVRd since Bruen, and the cases that lower courts have overturned. AWBs, capacity limits, concealed carry, background checks, age limits, etc. All those votes on the coast don't matter one bit.

Yes pretty soon we'll be marching toward a guntopia. Guns, guns for everyone- bad guys, good guys, teachers, toddlers - guns guns guns for all. Just like Baby Jebus intended.

Who cares about a few mass shootings anyway? Didn't a wiser man than I once say the tree of liberty needs to be watered with the blood of patriots, black churchgoers, Latino shoppers, gays, Jews, yoga chicks, fifth graders, and if you can find one maybe a tyrant?

I for one will not stop hoping we can do better than put 'gun rights' on a pedestal above everyone else's right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. It'll take time, but the nation will come to its senses one day and a rogue Supreme Court decision will be consigned to the dustbin of history.

And you'll still have your gun because the second amendment will still be there. It will just be 'well regulated'. Hard times, huh?

 

[Seth]

I don't think bans are necessarily the first port of call. Licensing, background checks and firearm registration allow gun lovers to still have their fun in those countries, yet these have been successfully resisted by the gun lobby in the US. These are simple commonsense steps to keep weapons out of the wrong hands without banning them.

If you look at the recent mass shooters, they didn't have a criminal record and would have passed all of your license, background and registration requirements.

The reason the gun loby resists such things is because they don't work.

 

[Daddyo]

It’s The Guns

It’s the guns. They’re the constituents our elected officials value the most. To most of our lawmakers, guns need careful handling. Not because they’re instruments of death, but because they’re holy and blameless chalices of liberty.

What we need is more Jesus.
Alabama has some of the highest church attendance in the nation. It also has one of the highest rates of death from firearms in the country.
The problem is how we raise our kids.
You’ve got families with problems all around the world. The difference is other countries aren’t so reckless about allowing kids access to guns.

It’s mental health.
This is always a great tell. The people who think guns will save us from big government want social services to save the guns.

Yeah, but what about crime in (Random northern city, probably Chicago or New York)?
Hey, the classic Alabama dodge! Wonder if the people who use it know that segregationists defending Jim Crow used it, too?
Imagine Alabama lawmakers seeing all the deaths caused by fentanyl and deciding, in the name of bodily autonomy, to make it easier to buy. It would be outrageous and dangerous, causing untold harm to families and communities, and adding to the health care costs in the state.
This is what they’ve done with guns.

Imagine Alabama lawmakers decided that driving a vehicle, being so critical to having a job in the state, meant that testing a person’s ability to operate a car was a dangerous infringement on freedom and made the only requirement to drive the ability to purchase a vehicle. You would drive a lot less on the roads.
This is what they’ve done with guns.

We have spent the better part of 30 years indulging the fear and paranoia of a small subset of gun owners who think they’re going to get killed every time they step out of their homes. We’ve allowed their terror – their paralyzing horror of facing any restriction on a dangerous weapon – to shape our public policy and our jurisprudence.

View attachment 67450458

You don’t get to define me or my family. You don’t get to tell others what I think or why I carry. And thankfully you don’t get to force your cowardly peace at all cost junk religion on me or mine.

I don’t carry because of fear. You are wrong. Actually I have told you this before so you are lying.

My uncle hit the Florida lottery at 14,000,000 to 1 odds. Each year you have a 1 in 14,000 chance of being murdered. It is not paranoia or irrational to be prepared. Especially when you have a 1 in 251 chance of being the victim of a violent crime. Some folks in Florida don’t prepare for a hurricane. To me it’s stupid to not prepare for a violent attacker. At 1 in 251 odds per year I’m the adult in the room by making sure I can protect my family. I take the role of being a MAN very seriously. I don’t fall for silly non violent religions that tell me to just take it. Every time you post that picture I chuckle.

 

[poppopfox]

You don’t get to define me or my family. You don’t get to tell others what I think or why I carry.

Persecution complex? Nothing in that link was personally directed at you or your family.

I reflect on what you post, and present evidence to support my views, kinda the purpose of discussion forums, no?

And thankfully you don’t get to force

Who's forcing? I'm attempting to enlighten.

your cowardly peace at all cost junk religion on me or mine.

Peace is cowardly in your tiny little bubble of reality? Buddhism is a junk religion? Can you make a post without reverting to some type of denigration?

I don’t carry because of fear.

Of course you do. What other reason is there to carry a weapon at all times unless there is no fear of being attacked by others who are also armed.

You are wrong.

Nope, the science is on my side..

Actually I have told you this before so you are lying.

And I still don't believe you.

My uncle hit the Florida lottery at 14,000,000 to 1 odds. Each year you have a 1 in 14,000 chance of being murdered. It is not paranoia or irrational to be prepared. Especially when you have a 1 in 251 chance of being the victim of a violent crime. Some folks in Florida don’t prepare for a hurricane. To me it’s stupid to not prepare for a violent attacker.

If you feel the odds are that bad where you live then maybe you should get out of the business of pimping guns and move out of your 'shithole' to a place where there is no reason to carry for self defense, unless one is tropophobic.

At 1 in 251 odds per year I’m the adult in the room by making sure I can protect my family. I take the role of being a MAN very seriously. I don’t fall for silly non violent religions that tell me to just take it. Every time you post that picture I chuckle.

And there is the culture of toxic masculinity behind the gun violence in this country, bolded above.
Toxic Masculinity and Gender-Based Gun Violence in America: A Way Forward

The theory of toxic masculinity posits that, generally, gender constructs and social pressures drive men to suppress emotions, internalize trauma, act out to prove their manliness, demonstrate aggression, and subjugate women. As a result, men may lack peaceful conflict resolution skills or the means to process trauma and negative emotions. This may cause them to turn to violence—against others and against themselves. Guns, in turn, make this violence lethal. Under traditional American conceptions of gender, men are socialized to see themselves as protectors, which may help to explain why men own guns at nearly twice the rate that women do, why more men carry guns in public, and why male gun owners own more firearms than their female counterparts. And as noble as this “protector construct” may seem, this consciousness has a dark side: one that is borne out in gun violence data.

 

[Daddyo]

Absolutely not.
Guns belong in a Well Regulated Militia exactly as the Constitution says. I'd be for STRICT ENFORCEMENT of that.

Ya know....Police, National Guard, Military, etc.
(Note: Nancy Lanza and James Holmes were and are NOT in a Well Regulated Militia. And neither are you.)

It sucks for your argument that our founders added the second part of the 2nd amendment. The confusion in the text that you suffer from was clearified by the founders in their arguments and quotes. IOW in their own words.

Personally the amendment is clear to me. It guarantees the right to keep and bear to the people and the militia people. If it was intended solely for the militia it would have said the right of the MILITIA to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. They said people not militia. Which goes in line with their writings on the matter.

 

[Daddyo]

Dumb is trusting a background system that isn't even linked with all the states and then not a complete database of the states it is connected with, and even then the ATF doesn't investigate the few offenders the broken system catches.

When convicts get denied they can just try another store until it eventually goes through, and the ATF does not investigate.

I have many dozens of felony 4473 crimes sitting in my store right now. Only remember 2 being followed up on in 9 years. Yet they want more laws lol.