What are your thoughts on unions?

[MAGAnificent]

Do your own book report. Then put on your big girl pants and tell us what the point of introducing that fact is.

You brought up corporations that donate to republican causes. The truth is that George Soros is more finacially involved in politics then any other individualm in the nation and all directed at democrats, and not all on the up and up.

 

[Galactic Spin]

You brought up corporations that donate to republican causes. The truth is that George Soros is more finacially involved in politics then any other individualm in the nation and all directed at democrats, and not all on the up and up.

So? You forgot to make a point.

 

[Ishm]

Either the govt maintains the balance of power between employers and employees, or the unions do. The reason there is a larger middle class today vs 200 years ago is because the balance of power has been moved closer to equilibrium. Some of that comes from unions, and some of it from govt social policies, but some of those are also driven by unions creating a stronger political voice as well.

We've all seen unions become too powerful and distort the power balance at times. It's a destructive force. But, so is allowing employers to pay $7.25 per hour for years until a labor force crisis forces wages up. Left to their own devices, the employer vs union battle has a large multi year/decade hysteresis loop and you get plenty of destructive excesses either way over long periods. Govts role is to try and shorten and minimize the hysteresis through effective policy that controls the excesses.

 

[What if...?]

Goofy comback. You are laughingly projecting that businesses donating to political campaigns forego passing out raises, benefits, and pensions.

So where does the money come from?

 

[Individual]

This is a non-answer. Silly.

Only if you're looking for something to argue about.

 

[weaver2]

That American unions were tainted by crime and corruption from the start.

The guiding principle behind unions is that just like employers have the right to coordinate the supply of labor they make avalable, employees have the right to coordinate the supply of labor they make available. Ideally, unions should be no different than the agents actors and musicians have, except for larger groups of people. Their service should simply be to get the best deal they can for their clients.

However, If you allow the two parties to bribe politicians, judges and law enforcement, engage with organized crime, or to act as agents for outside agendas, you will not be getting healthy unions.
You want healthy unions, you need to get rid not only of the criminals profiting off of them,, but also the other set of criminals that made these criminals necessary in the first place.

That American unions were tainted by crime and corruption from the start.

The guiding principle behind unions is that just like employers have the right to coordinate the supply of labor they make avalable, employees have the right to coordinate the supply of labor they make available. Ideally, unions should be no different than the agents actors and musicians have, except for larger groups of people. Their service should simply be to get the best deal they can for their clients.

However, If you allow the two parties to bribe politicians, judges and law enforcement, engage with organized crime, or to act as agents for outside agendas, you will not be getting healthy unions.
You want healthy unions, you need to get rid not only of the criminals profiting off of them,, but also the other set of criminals that made these criminals necessary in the first place.

Unions would never be necessary if corporations treated workers fairly.

Coal Field History

Photo gallery, lesson plans, and resources related to the Colorado Coal Strike of 1913-1914.

www.du.edu

 

[Old 'N Chill]

I think unions are good and have been a Teamster most of my working life. I also was a Union Steward for some time. It's good to be able to negotiate wages and work conditions, and be able to have representation if the employer treated any individuals unfairly. If there were any unsafe practices going on in the workplace, the Union rep. was a good person to speak to the management about the concern and get results without a big to do. From my personal experience, I'd say unions were beneficial to the workers. When employees are treated well, the company also benefits.

 

[HK.227]

Unions would never be necessary if corporations treated workers fairly.

Any kind of negotiation would be unnecessary if the party of the second party always treated the party of the first party fairly, and vice versa.

But it's not unions that are necessary per se. It's the right of the individual to coordinate their bargaining with other individuals.
Take nurses for instance. In my country nurse union is so regulated by the government, that they have effectively lost the right to strike. They can even be punished by law if they quit en masse in response to not being allowed to strike. So instead they are quitting their union jobs individually and joining private nurse agencies instead. The agencies rent out nurses to hospitals. They have a large supply of nurses and are able to coordinate their placement much better, hence they can command higher prices and pay higher wages. And so more nurses quit their union jobs and join the agencies. It''s a slow but steady flow, and every time the government breaks up a strike and command the nurses to go back to work, the flow quickens.

 

[weaver2]

Any kind of negotiation would be unnecessary if the party of the second party always treated the party of the first party fairly, and vice versa.

But it's not unions that are necessary per se. It's the right of the individual to coordinate their bargaining with other individuals.
Take nurses for instance. In my country nurse union is so regulated by the government, that they have effectively lost the right to strike. They can even be punished by law if they quit en masse in response to not being allowed to strike. So instead they are quitting their union jobs individually and joining private nurse agencies instead. The agencies rent out nurses to hospitals. They have a large supply of nurses and are able to coordinate their placement much better, hence they can command higher prices and pay higher wages. And so more nurses quit their union jobs and join the agencies. It''s a slow but steady flow, and every time the government breaks up a strike and command the nurses to go back to work, the flow quickens.

"That which we call a rose by any other name would smell just as sweet.”

 

[weaver2]

Unions= lazy and dumbed down( no incentive) work force. Fire em all

 

[jpevans]

I think in the beginning of their existence in the sweat shop era, they were a positive. Today however they are corrupt self serving and too embedded in national politics.

Well we're back to the sweat shop era, if people have to hold down multiple jobs to feed their kids. The Robber Barons have convinced the workers that Unions don't care about them. Unions are them.

 

[jpevans]

I think you might mean Gilded Age, not Golden Age.

Right, Gilded Age. Thanx...

 

[jpevans]

And that wealth from profits is not owned by the employees and is certainly not deducted from their paychecks

The problem is that their dues are being used to finance political campaigns. Thatg should not be occurring.

All they like, however as long as it's not deducted from their paychecks, they have no say. Do you mandate what your barber or coffee shop spends profits on?

Union donations are voted on democratically, the majority wins. sure there are always members who feel that they went the wrong way. Like any election.
No worries about the Barber shop & corner ma & pa coffee shop, the concerns are more about the multi $millions/billions profit companies who pay no taxes.

 

[What if...?]

Projection on your part. or are you buying policy as an individual when you make donations to your favorite candidate?

It certainly is not deducted from paychecks.

Yeah. They just take it out before they pay you by not paying you enough in the first place. Or skip a raise or two.

 

[What if...?]

Goofy comback. You are laughingly projecting that businesses donating to political campaigns forego passing out raises, benefits, and pensions.

If it’s a choice between favorable treatment by government and raises, benefits, pensions, you know damn well what gets the axe.

 

[jpevans]

Goofy comback. You are laughingly projecting that businesses donating to political campaigns forego passing out raises, benefits, and pensions.

Since the Unions went down, the minimum wage has gone from $1.25 to $7.25 while adjusted for inflation in 2021 it should be over $25,00. The anti Union front* is fighting raising it to $15.00 per hour.
*all those companies you're shilling for.

 

[jpevans]

You brought up corporations that donate to republican causes. The truth is that George Soros is more finacially involved in politics then any other individualm in the nation and all directed at democrats, and not all on the up and up.

Don't forget the remaining Koch bro.

 

[noonereal]

Only if you're looking for something to argue about.

Your posts were hallow and unsupported. FACT.

 

[Individual]

Your posts were hallow and unsupported. FACT.

I don't recall posting anything declared to be a fact, other than the fact that I have no facts to give a firm answer to our questions.

 

[ColdHardTruth]

Well run unions are good for workers, collective bargaining, workplace protections, group health insurance, mediate grievances, procuring contracts. However, I believe some unions are awash in cash from dues and that becomes tempting. I also don't like the racketeering aspects of some unions like has been seen with Teamsters and dock workers.

This is a true fact. The mob has interfered in anything and everything.

 

[Individual]

That's for sure.

At least quote my complete sentence.

 

[noonereal]

At least quote my complete sentence.

I deleted my post to respect your concerns.

 

[Indydave]

I'm pro-union in the trades. And in blue-collar professions.

I'm not pro-union in schools, hospitals, transportation, public service, etc.


Basically, when the union has the ability and power to disrupt the life of communities, I do not feel as though there should be unions.

Additionally, I'm against public funding of pensions AND publically held pension funds that government can borrow from.

without the ability to disrupt the life of communities unions would be powerless......public unions are as necessary as are private unions......

unions are just part of the equation......

 

[BirdinHand]

without the ability to disrupt the life of communities unions would be powerless......public unions are as necessary as are private unions......

unions are just part of the equation......

Completely disagree.

Private unions wield plenty of power - and are able to negotiate quite effectively.

Causing a family that has absolutely zero influence in negotiating a school teacher contract to lose a week of pay because of a teacher strike, shutting down air traffic because of the inability to negotiate air traffic controller salaries, causing garbage to pile up in the streets - none of these are acceptable to me.

You may think that holding the general public hostage is an effective negotiating tool, I think it shouldn’t be allowed. And we no longer allow air traffic controllers to strike, nurses can’t simply walk off the job and strike either. More and more controls are being placed around the disruption to communities that can be allowed by public unions, and rightfully so.

 

[weaver2]

And that wealth from profits is not owned by the employees ....

The corporation owns the profit but the workers made the product that made the profit.

The problem is that their dues are being used to finance political campaigns. Thatg should not be occurring.

Union dues pay for many things that benefit workers. Campaigning for state legislators and Congressmen and women that support policies and laws the support workers is part of what a responsible union does. The corporations are giving money to state and federal candidates' campaigns. Is there some reason why workers should be banned from contributing to political campaigns?