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Liberals and gun haters love to say all this phoney baloney about how in this day and age being in school is more dangerous than being in a war zone. Well its exactly that, phoney baloney. One of the worst school shootings in recent history is the Sandy Hook shooting in which 27 people were killed not including the shooter. Every year over 56 million students attend school grades K-12 so exactly what are your chances of you being shot if you go to school or your children's chances of being shot if they go to school? Very very very small. The thing is, when school shootings do happen it becomes a headline, a top story in the news, so it makes it seem that its much more common and much more likely to happen than it does. You have a much better chance dying in a school bus crash being driven to or from school.
What are the odds you will ever require the usage of an AR-15 or any other gun for your own personal protection?so exactly what are your chances of you being shot if you go to school or your children's chances of being shot if they go to school? The thing is when school shootings do happen it becomes a headline, a top story in the news, so it makes it seem that it's much more common and much more likely to happen than it does.
You have a much better chance dying in a school bus crash being driven to or from school.
What are the odds you will ever require the usage of an AR-15 or any other gun for your own personal protection?
It's about more than just YOUR odds of getting shot. Just have a shooting take place at your school can be a traumatic experience even if you're not one of the kids shot. Odds are good you will know one of the victims. Maybe a favorite teacher. That can have long-lasting psychological effects on a child.
So far in 2018, there have been 23 school shootings in 21 weeks of school. Not 23 victims, 23 shootings with at least one victim. A child goes to school for 13 years. There are approximately 36 weeks in a school year. That puts us at about 40 shootings over 13 years. So during the time you spend in school, there will be 520 school shootings many of which will have multiple casualties. There are 98,817 public schools in the United States. That puts us at a 0.5% or approximately 1 out of every 200 schools in the nation that will experience a school shooting in a 13-year span that you're in school.
You want to send your kids to school with a 1 in 200 chance there will be a crazy gunman running around at some point?
Which is why there's a whole bunch of regulations dealing with how to drive around school buses and schools when it is in session. We also make sure that school bus drivers are trained to handle a large bus, and have clean driving records before we let them get behind the wheel.
Close to nil and hopefully I never will have to use an AR-15 or any gun for personal protection but its always good to have insurance. Hopefully I will never have to use fire, medical, or liability insurance but all those things are good to have.What are the odds you will ever require the usage of an AR-15 or any other gun for your own personal protection?
And there are over 100,000 schools in the country. The chances of even going to a school when or where a shooting happens is less than the chances of being in a car crash.It's about more than just YOUR odds of getting shot. Just have a shooting take place at your school can be a traumatic experience even if you're not one of the kids shot. Odds are good you will know one of the victims. Maybe a favorite teacher. That can have long-lasting psychological effects on a child.
There are over 100,000 schools when you add in private schools. Lots of students go to private school. So like I said the chances of even experiencing a school shooting is very small.So far in 2018, there have been 23 school shootings in 21 weeks of school. Not 23 victims, 23 shootings with at least one victim. A child goes to school for 13 years. There are approximately 36 weeks in a school year. That puts us at about 40 shootings over 13 years. So during the time you spend in school, there will be 520 school shootings many of which will have multiple casualties. There are 98,817 public schools in the United States. That puts us at a 0.5% or approximately 1 out of every 200 schools in the nation that will experience a school shooting in a 13-year span that you're in school.
I wouldn't want to but sometimes stuff like that happens in life, that's why I would want any school I go to, or any children of mine go to, to have armed security.You want to send your kids to school with a 1 in 200 chance there will be a crazy gunman running around at some point?
I never did take the bus except for field trips. Usually my mom or dad would drive me to and from school or during the time I was going to a school that was close to home I would walk. When I was old enough I would drive myself. I had a better chance of being killed going to and from school than of being shot at school.Which is why there's a whole bunch of regulations dealing with how to drive around school buses and schools when it is in session. We also make sure that school bus drivers are trained to handle a large bus, and have clean driving records before we let them get behind the wheel.
Since Columbine, there have been 34 K-12 children killed at school in a mass shooting by a shooter armed with an "assault weapon". Since Columbine, there have been just over 100 K-12 students murdered at school by a shooter with any firearm. Consider those numbers with the possible chances - we have 50 million K-12 kids in 130,000 schools that meet 180 days a year.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States
From 2003-2012, a time period shorter than above, we've had 174 K-12 kids killed in school transportation related traffic accidents.
https://crashstats.nhtsa.dot.gov/Api/Public/ViewPublication/811890
Kids are in more danger getting to school, going on field trips and getting home from school than they are from a shooter at school.
So, a death rate well within the "acceptable zone".
No one had said the death rate was "acceptable".....
So if it's not acceptable, what do we do ?
Arm the teachers as has been suggested ?
Extend the TSA's role to screen all people entering a school ?
or ban guns ?
Yes, definitely some of the faculty and staff should be armed although it would have to be specialized.So if it's not acceptable, what do we do ?
Arm the teachers as has been suggested ?
No, armed faculty and staff should be adequate.Extend the TSA's role to screen all people entering a school ?
Not practical or even possible in the USA.or ban guns ?
Rich2018 has dodged these points.I did note the relative risk of school shooting deaths - it pales in comparison to almost any other form of death to a child. There have been 18,000 motor traffic related deaths for K-12 age children since 2010, and no real changes in legislation to reduce that number. If you're scare of a gunman at your child's school, but you aren't afraid of putting your child in a car, or letting them walk on the sidewalk, or ride their bikes on the sidewalks and streets, you're just stupid. If you're afraid of your child being shot at school, but you leave them alone at home with easy access to ropes or belts, you're just stupid.
the extra 2000 or so schools you added with private schools does not meaningfully change the math. If you are a child in America you have a 1 in 200 chance that a school shooting will happen at the school you're attending during your time in the education system. That's actually a pretty high number.There are over 100,000 schools when you add in private schools. Lots of students go to private school. So like I said the chances of even experiencing a school shooting is very small.
So you're basically admitting that liberals like me are right and we do in fact need to take steps to better protect children from school shootings and gun violence you just want a different solution that won't require you to make a trivial sacrifice of any kind.I wouldn't want to but sometimes stuff like that happens in life, that's why I would want any school I go to, or any children of mine go to, to have armed security.
Irrelevant. The point is that we do in fact have regulations in an effort to reduce the likelihood of a tragedy and you know damn well they're worth having.I never did take the bus except for field trips. Usually, my mom or dad would drive me to and from school or during the time I was going to a school that was close to home, I would walk. When I was old enough I would drive myself. I had a better chance of being killed going to and from school than of being shot at school.
And there are regulations when it comes to guns and schools just as there are regulations with school buses, usually, the regulation is that guns aren't allowed at schools, doesn't stop the shooters.
As Rucker pointed out in post #4 there is quite a bit more than an extra 2000 schools when you add in private schools and it does meaningfully change the math.the extra 2000 or so schools you added with private schools does not meaningfully change the math. If you are a child in America you have a 1 in 200 chance that a school shooting will happen at the school you're attending during your time in the education system. That's actually a pretty high number.
I believe we all want to protect children from not just gun violence but all violence and doing so should not require any sacrifice, just a little extra work.So you're basically admitting that liberals like me are right and we do in fact need to take steps to better protect children from school shootings and gun violence you just want a different solution that won't require you to make a trivial sacrifice of any kind.
If that's the case than stopping armed gunmen should be quite effective as we are right now effectively stopping illegal immigration, ever since Trump took office. He is doing a particularly good job at stopping migrants from the caravan in Mexico from illegally crossing into the USA although we really do need a good wall as he as pointed out.Of course. Trying to stop an armed gunman from entering a school is about as futile and pointless as trying to prevent illegal immigration.
You are right that most guns used in the USA are manufactured in the USA. Unlike drugs, which are often grown from plants that require specific climates, you don't need a specific climate to manufacture guns. So making more gun regulations would be pointless as people would just start manufacturing their own guns since they don't need to be imported.That's why if you want to have any hope of preventing things you have to try and stop the guns from getting into the hands of these **** heads in the first place. Given that most of the weapons used in these tragedies are manufactured and sold right here in America we should at least be able to put a dent in the problem if not solve the problem.
It happens in other nations too, not so much with guns but with other means such as bombs and trucks, and it does happen with guns too in other nations.We are literally the only nation on earth where this type of thing regularly happens.
I never implied that and if you think I did than you haven't been reading my posts.To pretend nothing can be done about it is nonsensically stupid.
Kids don't go to school 1 day per year. They generally go for almost all of them. Your lying with statistics. Stop.In 2018, that's 23,400,000 days of chances.
Automobiles are an absolute necessity for modern life. Without question, the benefits of automobiles radically outweigh the risks. Guns, on the other hand, provide little or no benefit to the average person on an average day. It is at best debatable whether or not the so-called benefits of gun ownership outweigh risk and the dangers. To compare cars with guns is nonsensically stupid.Shooting deaths at school have about 1/100 the chance of a K-12 child dying in a car wreck. Does any hesitate to toss their little darlings into the car every day?
Perfections should never be the enemy of the good. The failure to completely eliminate a problem entirely is not an excuse to prevent an attempt to try and improve things. Traffic laws may not completely eliminate traffic accidents, but only a delusional nut job would attempt to argue they provide no benefit at all. Your desire to drive drunk or do 80 mph past a school do not outweigh children's lives. Your desire to make a pumpkin explode with your AR doesn't either.We have strict rules on bringing guns to school, too, yet it still happens, and school-related transportation still kills more kids every year than a shooter at their school does.
What are the odds you will ever require the usage of an AR-15 or any other gun for your own personal protection?
It's about more than just YOUR odds of getting shot. Just have a shooting take place at your school can be a traumatic experience even if you're not one of the kids shot. Odds are good you will know one of the victims. Maybe a favorite teacher. That can have long-lasting psychological effects on a child.
So far in 2018, there have been 23 school shootings in 21 weeks of school. Not 23 victims, 23 shootings with at least one victim. A child goes to school for 13 years. There are approximately 36 weeks in a school year. That puts us at about 40 shootings over 13 years. So during the time you spend in school, there will be 520 school shootings many of which will have multiple casualties. There are 98,817 public schools in the United States. That puts us at a 0.5% or approximately 1 out of every 200 schools in the nation that will experience a school shooting in a 13-year span that you're in school.
You want to send your kids to school with a 1 in 200 chance there will be a crazy gunman running around at some point?
Which is why there's a whole bunch of regulations dealing with how to drive around school buses and schools when it is in session. We also make sure that school bus drivers are trained to handle a large bus, and have clean driving records before we let them get behind the wheel.
So, a death rate well within the "acceptable zone".
Rucker lied with statistics. I was going off the number you posted. Even if you think the number should be double 1 out of 400 isn't very good either.As Rucker pointed out in post #4 there is quite a bit more than an extra 2000 schools when you add in private schools and it does meaningfully change the math.
You realize people can grow weed in their basement with a special light, right?So making more gun regulations would be pointless as people would just start manufacturing their own guns since they don't need to be imported.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!! Okay, we're done here. Come join the rest of us in reality pal. Until then you're not worth my time. Migration has been slowing down for a long time now. Not because of the current dip**** in chief. Because of our recession, and because of improved job opportunities in Mexico. 75% of all undocumented immigrants come to America legally on student or work visas. They simply overstay them. Your dumbass border security does nothing to stop that.If that's the case than stopping armed gunmen should be quite effective as we are right now effectively stopping illegal immigration, ever since Trump took office.
There are 130,000 K-12 public and private schools that meet 180 times per year. In 2018, that's 23,400,000 days of chances. In 2018, there were 26 shootings on a K-12 campus. 26/23,400,000 represents a very small chance of being at school each day when a shooting happens. Of those 26 shootings, 17 had zero deaths. There have been 31 deaths of K-12 students resulting from a shooting in a K-12 school. We average 2,600 K-12 deaths in auto accidents every year. Shooting deaths at school have about 1/100 the chance of a K-12 child dying in a car wreck. Does any hesitate to toss their little darlings into the car every day?
The modal number of dead in a school shooting is 0. The modal number of wounded is 1
100 times the chance they'll die in a car wrech over that same time period.
We have strict rules on bringing guns to school, too, yet it still happens, and school-related transportation still kills more kids every year than a shooter at their school does.
What are the odds you'd need a sports car or jewelry? People don't have to justify what they chose to buy based on need.
According to the DOE there are over 30,000 private schools.the extra 2000 or so schools you added with private schools does not meaningfully change the math. If you are a child in America you have a 1 in 200 chance that a school shooting will happen at the school you're attending during your time in the education system. That's actually a pretty high number.
So you're basically admitting that liberals like me are right and we do in fact need to take steps to better protect children from school shootings and gun violence you just want a different solution that won't require you to make a trivial sacrifice of any kind.
Some may be. Some don't do anything at all.Irrelevant. The point is that we do in fact have regulations in an effort to reduce the likelihood of a tragedy and you know damn well they're worth having.
Of course. Trying to stop an armed gunman from entering a school is about as futile and pointless as trying to prevent illegal immigration. That's why if you want to have any hope of preventing things you have to try and stop the guns from getting into the hands of these **** heads in the first place. Given that most of the weapons used in these tragedies are manufactured and sold right here in America we should at least be able to put a dent in the problem if not solve the problem.
Yet those shootings still happen, which tells us that even with their laws those who want to commit crimes will find a way to do so.We are literally the only nation on earth where this type of thing regularly happens. To pretend nothing can be done about it is nonsensically stupid.
Kids don't go to school 1 day per year. They generally go for almost all of them. Your lying with statistics. Stop.
Automobiles are an absolute necessity for modern life. Without question, the benefits of automobiles radically outweigh the risks. Guns, on the other hand, provide little or no benefit to the average person on an average day. It is at best debatable whether or not the so-called benefits of gun ownership outweigh risk and the dangers. To compare cars with guns is nonsensically stupid.
Perfections should never be the enemy of the good. The failure to completely eliminate a problem entirely is not an excuse to prevent an attempt to try and improve things. Traffic laws may not completely eliminate traffic accidents, but only a delusional nut job would attempt to argue they provide no benefit at all. Your desire to drive drunk or do 80 mph past a school do not outweigh children's lives. Your desire to make a pumpkin explode with your AR doesn't either.
I don't support the wall.A stupid wall on our southern border won't prevent undocumented immigration entirely either, but that hasn't prevented stupid racist Republicans from calling for one.
No they don't. It's their right to keep and bear arms.Yes, they do.
Niether are guns. People own them for hunting, self defense, sport shooting, collecting proposes much more often than they open them for the purposes of murderYou see a sports car and jewelry aren't primarily used for the purposes of murder.
You haven't established the reason people own guns is for murder so they above is irrelevant.In order to kill people with a sports car, you'd generally have to be inside of it yourself in which case you're as likely to kill yourself as someone else.
Well you actually can own cars that aren't street legal, I've owned several. You just can't operate it on the street.I should also point out that many sports cars can't be purchased in the United States because they're not street legal.
We already have restrictions on the purchasing of other weapons. Those restrictions have in fact been quite successful in preventing their proliferation so far.
I have guns not because I need them but because I want them. The only justification I need is that it's my right to own them.
Really? What about all the other arms they can't legally purchase?No they don't. It's their right to keep and bear arms.
Yes, they are. Killing someone or something is the only valid use of a gun outside of pure recreation. Recreation is not a valid use case for something that is also used for mass murder.Neither are guns.
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