- Joined
- Jan 25, 2012
- Messages
- 37,940
- Reaction score
- 36,369
- Location
- Vancouver, Canada Dual citizen
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- Male
- Political Leaning
- Independent
You can read the full article here. Here are some snippets on key points:
This is a terrific, but sad great read. Quite frankly, I cannot disagree with a single word he wrote. Do you guys think human decency is dead?
Yes. AFTER Trump and his cronies riled them up, repeatedly using words like FIGHT and COMBAT many times, told them they had been lied to repeatedly, and threatened that they would lose their country if they didn’t “fight like hell”. Anyone could see it if they had their eyes open.Walk TO the capitol.
Wow. So clear. So.... you read that and to you it means, "STORM THE PLACE AND GO INTO THE BUILDING, AND... SOMETHING?"
You are a fervent cult member. Does it hurt?OK. you are in the cult, not me.
HE shows people talking about organizing the protest and he pretends that they are talking about the riot that was a once in a generation fluke.
That is shit talk. NOthing more.
For me, I liked the fact Biden was/is "boring". It was a great change of pace from the previous President. One would hope Biden's presidency will look positive in the history books. We have seen upward movements from both Bush Presidents, Gerald Ford, and Jimmy Carter. History books have looked more favorable to LBJ and Ulysses Grant.Biden wasn’t a president to go around tooting his own horn. He liked to remain behind the scenes. Much like Eisenhower who did quite a lot behind the scenes. IKE was if my memory right rated 22nd on the presidential rankings. But over time, as more and more information became available to what he had done has now risen up to 8th. Biden may be in the same boat so to speak.
Wasn't there a poll that stated that 49% of Americans think Trump is a fascist?I’d say this election was basically a draw. Yes, Trump won, but won by a slim 1.6 points, the GOP lost 2 house seats while gaining 4 senate seats. Only one of those four senate gains was in a swing state, the other three in solid red states. It’s like a football game in which both times are tied 30-30 at the end of 60 minutes of play, it goes into overtime where one team kicks a field goal and wins the game. Then hollers about how bad they smashed the other team. Thus according to many republicans, a mandate. Yes, it was a win, but not a dominating mandate, landslide win.
We prefer a shit person to represent us. That makes us a shit people.
If there was a poll like that, I never seen it. But I have Google handy. There more to the poll/article than just being a fascist.For me, I liked the fact Biden was/is "boring". It was a great change of pace from the previous President. One would hope Biden's presidency will look positive in the history books. We have seen upward movements from both Bush Presidents, Gerald Ford, and Jimmy Carter. History books have looked more favorable to LBJ and Ulysses Grant.
Wasn't there a poll that stated that 49% of Americans think Trump is a fascist?
Looks we are going to be there come Jan 20.“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.”
― H.L. Mencken,
It started with Senator Harry Reid. But yes, Trump has taken it to a whole new level.You can read the full article here. Here are some snippets on key points:
This is a terrific, but sad great read. Quite frankly, I cannot disagree with a single word he wrote. Do you guys think human decency is dead?
Yes. AFTER Trump and his cronies riled them up, repeatedly using words like FIGHT and COMBAT many times, told them they had been lied to repeatedly, and threatened that they would lose their country if they didn’t “fight like hell”. Anyone could see it if they had their eyes open.
Did you read through the sequence of events building up to Jan 6th? This event had been in the works for months, planned and orchestrated. It is so obvious.
You are a fervent cult member. Does it hurt?
Again , you don't know enough to realize what was posted to you. I can tell because you cannot deny the facts he posted. You have not posted any actual true statement regarding the facts he posted.
There is nothing normal about an insurrection.Standard partisan rhetoric used to describe normal partisan political rallies and protests.
There is nothing normal about an insurrection.
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Here is a true fact for you. Political organizers talk like that about normal, peaceful political rallies and work, ALL THE TIME.
That's a non sequitur - false equivalence whataboutism. You jumped to a faulty conclusion without saying what figure of speech you're comparing to "war". You are making another vague claim that ordinary preparation for a political rally would somehow include reversing the valid and true results of the vote and with the explicit intent to prevent a peaceful and lawful transfer of power.You ever hear of the WAR ON POVERTY?
You do realize that that was actually not a real war, right? It was "Waged" by government drones handing out money, not by army guys launching attacks with guns and tanks, right?
How would be able to tell that if you don't know any facts about this?Your positions is absurd.
STOP BEING SILLY.
That's not a fact. You interpreted that without observable and measurable evidence. This shows you don't know what a fact is.
You still have not addressed any actual true statement regarding the facts our fellow member posted. That's because you don't know anything about what happened.
Now I can show an example of a fact. Trump refused to call the National guard and he refused to tell the rioters to leave the building. We know this from eyewitness sworn testimony of multiple white house staff.
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That's a non sequitur - false equivalence whataboutism. You jumped to a faulty conclusion without saying what figure of speech you're comparing to "war". You are making another vague claim that ordinary preparation for a political rally would somehow include reversing the valid and true results of the vote and with the explicit intent to prevent a peaceful and lawful transfer of power.
You're saying normal political party rally preparations are intended to push a self coup. You are uninformed.It is a fact. Political organizers talk like that about normal, peaceful political rallies and work, ALL THE TIME. Your denial is just you shitcannign your credibility.
Neither of those is really the president's job.
Nope. Very good comparison. People using "fighting" or "War" sounding rhetoric to discuss normal political activity.
Your stonewalling is dishonest and robs you of credibility.
You're saying normal political party rally preparations are intended to push a self coup. You are uninformed.
And you are unwilling to say why trump refused to stop the riot and why he refused to call the NG. You can explain that now. Why did trump refuse to stop the riot and refuse to call the NG?
Overturning the legitimate results of an election and preventing the constitutional transfer of power is not a normal practice.
If overturning the results of a free and fair election is normal, when did happen before J6? No president has ever prevented the transfer of power until trump did. There is no point in your vague claim here because you're posting from your imagination and you are unable to address the facts.
You say that because you don't know any true facts.
Your point apparently was that normal political party rally preparations are intended to push a self coup. But you didn't say which president attempted a self coup before trump tried to prevent the peaceful and constitutional transfer of power after a free and fair election. No other president did that, and that's why the preparation for the riot was intentional and totally different than ordinary campaign events.YOu ignored my actual point, and offered a strawman and then reasserted your conclusion. Then you insulted me.
That is, lets see... at least three logical fallacies. And at no time did you come close to a valid point.
You are drifting further and further from reality. Capitol security is the type of thing you plan before a riot, not during. Trump offered national guard units BEFORE the riot.
You are not informed enough to answer the question. Why did he refuse to use the broadcast booth in the white house and why did he refuse to call the NG to stop the riot?Stop the riot? That implies that Trump was in control of the riot.
FALSE.
You said J6 was a normal political event but you can't say when a president attempted a self coup before. You can name a previous example now.Again, you ignored my actual point, and offerend a strawman based on your spin on events. Good stonewalling and gaslighting.
You said J6 was normal.ANd more strawmen.
The more desperate you become, the more you look like you are losing this debate.
Your point apparently was that normal political party rally preparations are intended to push a self coup..
Who called the crowd to come to DC? Who lured them with lies about election fraud? J6 could not possibly happened without trump and his lies of election fraud. That means there was never before a president who attempted a self coup and that's why J6 wasn't normal.
I'm sure you noticed that you can't answer my question. Why did trump refuse to stop the riot and refuse to call the NG?
You are not informed enough to answer the question. Why did he refuse to use the broadcast booth in the white house and why did he refuse to call the NG to stop the riot?
You said J6 was a normal political event....
You said J6 was normal.
So tell me when a self coup was attempted before trump tried it.
Learn the facts and you will realize what I'm saying.
That is not what I said. YOu are misrepresenting what I said to dodge my point, which you know you cannot refute.
Calling the rally to dc does not make Trump responsible for the riot.
I can't read his mind across space and time, and neither can you. You asking me to, is you trying to use a LOADED QUESTION FALLACY to support your position, because you can't support your position honestly.
Your request for me to read him mind across space and time is not rational.
I did not say that. I said that the rally and the rhetoric used in organizing the rally was normal. YOu are being deeply dishonest.
Calling for a rally to put political pressure on people, is normal. YOur pretense otherwise is dishonest.
I like the way you build an strawman ontop of dishonesty. It shows that on some level you know that your postion is completely false.
Your gaslighting needs work.
Political organizers talk like that about normal, peaceful political rallies and work, ALL THE TIME.
You wrote on post #239:
J6 was never normal. It was political and trump said "peaceful" once, but trump is the only man who tried to stop the constitutional and peaceful transfer of power in this country.
It was widely known that there would be a protest at the Capitol and a small fraction of that number intended on getting inside. Some fraction of those who got inside the Capitol were threatening enough to require an evacuation. That's not what should have happened legally but it could have been stopped before 3 pm.
When a person in power defies a legal or constitutional mandate in order to illegally remain in power, that is the definition of a self coup, and J6 is the best example in history. You have not answered the following:
Why didn't trump attempt to stop the riot, and why didn't he call for mobilization of the NG?
How could J6 possibly have happened without trump?
And other questions you should address-
Did the rioters understand that no state was willing to rescind their EC delegation?
Who were the rioters supporting?
When did Giuliani try to call Tuberville to tell him to keep the delay going for two or three more days and why was he asking?
0:33 -
Your words make no sense. You claim that the political rally was not normal and then to support that false claim, you make another false claim that Trump tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power.
Trump's elector plan was a peaceful and legal attempt to game the system. Much like Al Gore did in florida with his selective recount.
The riot was not part of the plan. YOu are conflating different issues and adding in, complete garbage to justify your... exaggerated hysteria about Trump.
Trump is a populist President who just kicked your ass. It is OUR TURN to have OUR interests represented.
That you feel so upset, is YOU not wanting to have a constitutional and peaceful transfer of power.
This is not the end of democracy. This is us having our turn. YOU thinking that you should get to win always, is more of a threat to democracy and peace, than Trump.
I thought @soap box was extremely clear.Your words make no sense.
It was NOT a normal political rally. It was intentionally designed to foment violence.You claim that the political rally was not normal...
It was and is supported by facts you choose to remain blind to.and then to support that false claim,
He did. IT will remain a historic orange stain on our history.you make another false claim that Trump tried to stop the peaceful transfer of power.
It was fraud.Trump's elector plan was a peaceful and legal attempt to game the system.
The fake elector scheme bears no similarity to a recount.Much like Al Gore did in florida with his selective recount.
See posts 211,213, and 214, where I listed a sequence of events leading up to the insurrection. (Better yet, go to the linked reference - there is a lot more relevant information) The conclusion that violence was the intended outcome - at the capitol, on that specific day - in order to delay the official confirmation of Joe Biden’s win is inescapable.The riot was not part of the plan.
Uh huh.YOu are conflating different issues and adding in, complete garbage to justify your... exaggerated hysteria about Trump.
He barely won, and is holding a small majority. An ass-kicking it was not. Most Americans find him loathsome. He just ranked at or very near the bottom on virtually every respected presidential ranking. Th good news is he can only improve or stay near last place. My guess is he does the latter.Trump is a populist President who just kicked your ass.
You've had them represented all along, as intended. Now you have a majority of the power. Let's see what trump';s chaos cabinet does with it.It is OUR TURN to have OUR interests represented.
the elector plan was legal? how so? who ruled it was legal?
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It was NOT a normal political rally. It was intentionally designed to foment violence.
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