We Will Not Lock Down The Country

[ludin]

He will have the bully pulpit. And Congress has the power.

Trump campaigned against the reccomendations of his own task force.

When morons suffering from Covid abuse health care workers who are trying to treat them, self diagnosing themselves and declaring loudly that they don’t have Covid, one has a much easier time understanding the superstitions and fears of people during the Black Plague.

In the absence of leadership and management, Trump has always gone for flooding the zone with noise and telling his fans that it’s not their fault, they’ll get rewarded for insisting that they’re entitled, and that leaders don’t have to take responsibility.

Pelosi and biden campaigned against what was being said as well.
if leftist didn't have a double standard they would have 0 standards.

 

[vegas giants]

You need to be able to think abstractly. Ask the what ifs. Try to discredit a hypothesis that you've just formulated and then try credit the same hypotheses.
Abstract thoughts aren't gonna bite you on the butt.

I am thinking abstractly. I am doing it right now.


Ok same conclusion. Sorry

 

[cabse5]

Yes, and I'm older than you. Wear a mask, wash your hands frequently, avoid crowds. Simple ain't it?

When we can't avoid crowds (we want a life, don't we?), don't put all your faith in the wearing of a mask. Be more concerned with social distancing than mask wearing. Wear a hazmat suit (or similar attire) when in crowds.

 

[Antiwar]

I don't care for this term, but let's look at this as a "thought experiment." That means that I don't want these things to happen, that I want people to think about all of these things while they hopefully have their entrenched notions questioned a bit.

[thought experiment] We need to treat these maskless protesters like the looters they are. They are destroying their own neighborhoods. They are ruining the country by killing people and destroying the economy. Normal, law-abiding Americans don't feel safe going to get their groceries. Law and order is needed to quash these maskless thugs. Let's stop playing nice so nobody's feelings get hurt. Send in the National Guard, the riot police, the militias, etc, and take back these "Autonomous Mask Zones." I want to see batons wielded, tear gas launchers pointed at their maskless faces, rubber-coated bullets, fire hoses, and lots of guns to deal with the truly unruly thugs. [/thought experiment]

 

[cabse5]

I don't care for this term, but let's look at this as a "thought experiment." That means that I don't want these things to happen, that I want people to think about all of these things while they hopefully have their entrenched notions questioned a bit.

[thought experiment] We need to treat these maskless protesters like the looters they are. They are destroying their own neighborhoods. They are ruining the country by killing people and destroying the economy. Law and order is needed to quash these maskless thugs. Let's stop playing nice so nobody's feelings get hurt. Send in the National Guard, the riot police, the militias, etc, and take back these "Autonomous Mask Zones." I want to see batons wielded, tear gas launchers pointed at their maskless faces, rubber-coated bullets, fire hoses, and lots of guns to deal with the truly unruly thugs. [/thought experiment]

I'm all for saving people from Covid death and destruction but you're living in a dream world if you think just the wearing of the mask will keep you safe...That doesn't mean there aren't tried and true measures to make you safe...It's just that some measures (like mask wearing) are more to preserve hospital resources than to make people safe from Covid infection.

 

[Antiwar]

I'm all for saving people from Covid death and destruction but you're living in a dream world if you think just the wearing of the mask will keep you safe...That doesn't mean there aren't tried and true measures to make you safe...It's just that some measures (like mask wearing) are more to preserve hospital resources than to make people safe from Covid infection.

I know. It's a combination of non-therapeutic measures to slow the spread.

 

[Rawley]

I don't care for this term, but let's look at this as a "thought experiment." That means that I don't want these things to happen, that I want people to think about all of these things while they hopefully have their entrenched notions questioned a bit.

[thought experiment] We need to treat these maskless protesters like the looters they are. They are destroying their own neighborhoods. They are ruining the country by killing people and destroying the economy. Normal, law-abiding Americans don't feel safe going to get their groceries. Law and order is needed to quash these maskless thugs. Let's stop playing nice so nobody's feelings get hurt. Send in the National Guard, the riot police, the militias, etc, and take back these "Autonomous Mask Zones." I want to see batons wielded, tear gas launchers pointed at their maskless faces, rubber-coated bullets, fire hoses, and lots of guns to deal with the truly unruly thugs. [/thought experiment]

When few cities are arresting actual rioters and looters, what do you think the odds are that they are going to arrest Maria on her way to the Vallarta Supermarket?r

 

[cabse5]

I know. It's a combination of non-therapeutic measures to slow the spread.

Slowing the spread is another measure designed by the CDC/WHO to save hospital resources. You may come to realize, as I have, that all of the measures proposed by the CDC/WHO to fight Covid are designed to save hospital resources.
Slowing the spread doesn't stop new cases of Covid from killing, either.

 

[Antiwar]

When few cities are arresting actual rioters and looters, what do you think the odds are that they are going to arrest Maria on her way to the Vallarta Supermarket?r

I like how you skipped over considering what I wrote and went straight to, "But, but, they're letting rioters and looters get away with it."

Arresting and convicting rioters and looters has to be handled carefully so more doesn't happen. If police forces go in heavy-handed, things can escalate and grow. They use surveillance footage and other things to track down and arrest people, usually after things have calmed down.

 

[cabse5]

When few cities are arresting actual rioters and looters, what do you think the odds are that they are going to arrest Maria on her way to the Vallarta Supermarket?r

Well, they'll think the looting of the supermarket is justified while little Maria not wearing a mask isn't justified.

 

[Rawley]

I like how you skipped over considering what I wrote and went straight to, "But, but, they're letting rioters and looters get away with it."

OK. You don't want to discuss your own "thought experiment" fine. I won't bother you again.

 

[Juggernaut74]

The point is Biden criticized Trump's Covid response and yet Biden's Covid response is Trump's Covid response - mask mandates leading to surges, increased testing, work on vaccines and treatments, and not locking down the country.

That’s demonstrably false.

Again, this isn’t a binary choice. This isn’t “we can either do option 1 or option 2” type situation. There are infinite individual policies that make up each man’s overall pandemic “plan”.

Yes, there are some individual policies where both Biden and Trump probably have common ground. But there are also several key policies where the differ greatly. To state that both men have exactly the same plan is an outright denial of reality.

 

[Captain Adverse]

I'll deconstruct your comment, later.

Until then, some questions: Are you antiwar and anti-militarism? Do you honor the US Constitution?

I don't usually respond to deflections regarding myself. However, as you are a relatively newer member and Forum access to blogs is still in the works, I'll indulge you.

You can find most of my basic positions in one of my blogs, posted here:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/blogs/captain-adverse/1391-time-re-introduce-myself.html

As for further info about "anti-militarism" there is this recent thread:

Another example of how the Republican "Old Guard" NEVER really supported Trump.

McConnell Slams Trump's Plan to Withdraw Troops from Afghanistan and Iraq. This is an example of the real-politick of the Republican "Old Guard." They are in bed with Democrat and "Swampy" Bureaucrat career politicians, and all the special interest groups who "fund" their re-elections and...

debatepolitics.com

Where you can check out the OP and also my post there #3.

When I was younger I also protested the Vietnam War.

However, I did enlist in the US Army where I served 1.5 years as a 19D Cavalry Scout, making it to Sgt. E-5. I was then recommended for, and completed OCS. I eventually reached the rank of Captain O-3 commanding a Mech. Inf. Company, then a short stint in "Special Forces" before resigning at the end of 10 years total service. I voluntarily resigned as always planned, having met my personal goal of military service in support of my country.

I believe in maintaining a strong military for defense of our nation, but not for adventurism or to be the "World's Policeman."

 

[Rawley]

That’s demonstrably false.

Again, this isn’t a binary choice. This isn’t “we can either do option 1 or option 2” type situation. There are infinite individual policies that make up each man’s overall pandemic “plan”.

Yes, there are some individual policies where both Biden and Trump probably have common ground. But there are also several key policies where the differ greatly. To state that both men have exactly the same plan is an outright denial of reality.

OK. What are the significant differences? If you say Biden will take it seriously, or advocate mask use, I will vomit.

 

[Antiwar]

Slowing the spread is another measure designed by the CDC/WHO to save hospital resources. You may come to realize, as I have, that all of the measures proposed by the CDC/WHO to fight Covid are designed to save hospital resources.
Slowing the spread doesn't stop new cases of Covid from killing, either.

There's a good chance that we could've prevented a lot of this misery by taking a lot of measures seriously, by the public and the government. That takes investing in preparations for pandemics, messaging, locking down, etc.

By not taking it seriously enough, America squandered the investments we tried to make. We wasted our efforts by taking half-measures. We made the outcomes worse by taking half-measures: deaths and the many economic hardships.

That's not to say that the pandemic wouldn't have happened, or resulted in problems. It's to say the problems likely could have been minimized. Instead the problems are maximizing.

 

[Juggernaut74]

OK. What are the significant differences? If you say Biden will take it seriously, or advocate mask use, I will vomit.

Well, yes, advocating mask use is one area where the two men obviously have very different plans. I’m not sure why pointing that out makes you nauseous.

Another area, would be their plans toward opening, funding, and protecting schools.

Biden has promised a different approach on COVID and schools

A Biden administration is set to play a different role than Trump officials have, by pushing for additional resources for public schools and efforts to make up learning loss, while making no demands of schools on Twitter.

www.chalkbeat.org

You’ll note, I’m not making any value judgments as to which man has the better plan...I’m not attempting to make a partisan argument. Just merely pointing out that vast differences do exist, and (back to the original post) no one serious is recommending that the country go into 100% lock down.

 

[Antiwar]

I don't usually respond to deflections regarding myself. However, as you are a relatively newer member and Forum access to blogs is still in the works, I'll indulge you.

You can find most of my basic positions in one of my blogs, posted here:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/blogs/captain-adverse/1391-time-re-introduce-myself.html

As for further info about "anti-militarism" there is this recent thread:

Another example of how the Republican "Old Guard" NEVER really supported Trump.

McConnell Slams Trump's Plan to Withdraw Troops from Afghanistan and Iraq. This is an example of the real-politick of the Republican "Old Guard." They are in bed with Democrat and "Swampy" Bureaucrat career politicians, and all the special interest groups who "fund" their re-elections and...

debatepolitics.com

Where you can check out the OP and also my post there #3.

When I was younger I also protested the Vietnam War.

However, I did enlist in the US Army where I served 2 years as a 19D Cavalry Scout, making it to Sgt. E-5. I was then recommended for, and completed OCS. I eventually reached the rank of Captain O-3 commanding a Mech. Inf. Company, then a short stint in "Special Forces" before resigning at the end of 10 years total service. I voluntarily resigned as always planned, having met my personal goal of military service in support of my country.

Does that "help?"

I'll look these over, when I get the chances.

What supposed deflection of yourself?

 

[mrjurrs]

he has 0 power to lock down anything.

That would be wrong. He can shut down any or all Federal govt activities.

 

[Rawley]

Well, yes, advocating mask use is one area where the two men obviously have very different plans. I’m not sure why pointing that out makes you nauseous.

Because we have eight months of clear evidence that advocating mask use, mandating mask use, fining for mask use, imprisoning for mask use, does work to the control the virus.

Another area, would be their plans toward opening, funding, and protecting schools.

Biden has promised a different approach on COVID and schools

A Biden administration is set to play a different role than Trump officials have, by pushing for additional resources for public schools and efforts to make up learning loss, while making no demands of schools on Twitter.

www.chalkbeat.org

You’ll note, I’m not making any value judgments as to which man has the better plan...I’m not attempting to make a partisan argument. Just merely pointing out that vast differences do exist, and (back to the original post) no one serious is recommending that the country go into 100% lock down.

Point taken. But other than throwing hundreds of billions of dollars at schools, where the infection rate is one tenth of one percent. what is he really advocating that is different from what the Trump administration is doing?

Joe Biden’s Roadmap to Reopening Schools Safely | Joe Biden for President: Official Campaign Website

Educators, students, and families have done an incredible job in difficult circumstances during this pandemic. Everyone wants schools to fully reopen for in-person instruction. Creating the conditions to make it happen should be a top national priority. Joe Biden believes that the decision about...

joebiden.com

Kids, school, and COVID-19: What we know — and what we don’t

An emerging body of evidence suggests that young children do not spread the coronavirus easily. Does that mean it’s safe to bring them back to class?

www.aamc.org

 

[Captain Adverse]

I'll look these over, when I get the chances.

What supposed deflection of yourself?

(Sigh)

You asked about three positions:

1. Anti-war (or not).

2. Anti-militarism (or not).

3. Do I honor the Constitution (or not).

Those are deflections to ME, about issues that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the OP, with the possible exception of the Constitution question. But even that last would be self-evident not only from my history of posts, but also from my positions in the very post you cited.

 

[Juggernaut74]

Point taken. But other than throwing hundreds of billions of dollars at schools, where the infection rate is one tenth of one percent. what is he really advocating that is different from what the Trump administration is doing?

Again - I’m not really interested in debating what the right choice is, as I’m certainly not qualified to make that determination. The post I responded to falsely tried to claim that both men had identical plans, and my only point is that that claim is completely detached from reality as there are significant differences between the two. The school funding policy is but one example of such differences.

 

[Antiwar]

(Sigh)

You asked about three positions:

1. Anti-war (or not).

2. Anti-militarism (or not).

3. Do I honor the Constitution (or not).

Those are deflections to ME, about issues that have absolutely NOTHING to do with the OP, with the possible exception of the Constitution question. But even that last would be self-evident not only from my history of posts, but also from my positions in the very post you cited.

Asking a few questions on how "pure" your right-libertarian ideology is is not deflection.

 

[ludin]

That would be wrong. He can shut down any or all Federal govt activities.

yeah good thing we are talking about states not the federal government.
please pay attention to the conversation.

 

[year2late]

So, you finally admit that mask mandates don't work?

Mandates will work if they have consequences that are acted upon. We should have ALL been doing this once our epidemiologists discovered that asymptomatic spread was a feature of the disease, not a fluke. PLEASE NOTE - when you look at why the economy is where it is at and why businesses are going under....look to every individual that failed to follow the advice of our leading epidemiologists. To me, every superspreader event is clear evidence that attendees could give a rat's ass about the health of others AND the economy.

Too bad that we have a President that politicized the the crap out of masks. Encouraging people to do the right thing for the right reason - and being an example of proper action would have been nice.

Too bad the superspreader in chief discouraged proper action with his superspreader ego rallies. Too bad he did not use his cult of personality status to show off the proper action from the git go. In his own hot zone White House he actively discouraged mask wearing....to the point pf humiliating or ignoring mask wearing.

But yeah, give the mandates consequences that are actively acted upon.

 

[Rawley]

Again - I’m not really interested in debating what the right choice is, as I’m certainly not qualified to make that determination. The post I responded to falsely tried to claim that both men had identical plans, and my only point is that that claim is completely detached from reality as there are significant differences between the two. The school funding policy is but one example of such differences.

I didn't ask you what the right choice was, I asked you what the differences were. You pointed to the approach for reopening schools. I posted Biden's plan, and other than providing hundreds of billions to rebuild the infrafructure of of every shool in the country (yes, you can tell I'm not a fan of this proposal) I asked you what the differences were in the policies were.