"We want to outlaw abortion in Oklahoma"

[Josie]

The Handmaid's Tale in the TV series portrayed the oppressors as never suffering any consequences for their barbaric behavior.

Well, they have suffered some consequences.

No wonder conservative Christians are all for a handmaid's world.

Who is?

What's not to like. One gets to punish women for having sex while simultaneously forcing them to perform sexually.

Who wants that? Be specific.

 

[weaver2]

Well, they have suffered some consequences.

What sort of consequences have they suffered for holding women prisoners, keeping them pregnant, shaming them for their fertility then taking their children from them.

 

[Lafayette]

THE RIGHTTO BE BORN

If birth affords them rights, as you say, then they obviously do not have rights before birth, as I said. So my previous statement is accurate.

If a baby is outside its mother's womb, it's alive. Definition:

BIRTH. The act of being wholly brought into the world. The whole body must be detached from that of the mother, in order to make the birth complete.

Of course a child has no knowledge of the rights that s/he has inherited from their mother. But THOSE RIGHTS EXIST!

From here:

What is [the] right to be born?

The inalienable right to life or the right to be born embodies several different distinct human rights. These include:

(1) the right to be conceived of parents, or

(2) the right to be safely implanted in the uterus; and

(3) the right to live and not to be aborted.

 

[Lursa]

Hands down the number one reason why abortion is "necessary" for most is convenience (what most will call "social and economic reasons")- so they don't have to pay the consequences for having had sex and managing to get pregnant in the process.

Statistically, that's about 96.5% of all reasons. All other reasons add up to about 3.5%. Source

Since when are things like making sure you keep your job, can put food on the table, keep a roof over your family's heads, uphold your obligations and commitments to church, community, employer, society, etc 'conveniences?" They're all necessities in life, and civilities and expectations in one's social contract. Is staying off welfare 'a convenience?'

No woman has an abortion unless she needs it. Your opinion of that "need" is unimportant, since you dont know her circumstances and you wont pay her consequences.

Btw, what's wrong with having an abortion? Please be specific?

 

[Gordy327]

THE RIGHTTO BE BORN

Where is that right enumerated?

If a baby is outside its mother's womb, it's alive. Definition:

Being outside is key.

Of course a child has no knowledge of the rights that s/he has inherited from their mother. But THOSE RIGHTS EXIST!

Sure, once it's born.

From here:

From what? A paper from South Africa? What does South African law have to do with US law?

 

[Josie]

What sort of consequences have they suffered for holding women prisoners, keeping them pregnant, shaming them for their fertility then taking their children from them.

You didn't keep going with the series.

What about the rest of my post? Who is all for a Handmaid's Tale country? Be specific.

 

[weaver2]

You didn't keep going with the series.

No, I quit, too unrelentingly pessimistic.

What about the rest of my post? Who is all for a Handmaid's Tale country?

I don't know

Be specific.

I specifically don't know.

 

[Josie]

No, I quit, too unrelentingly pessimistic.

Then you shouldn't assume what happens in the seasons you didn't watch.

I don't know

I specifically don't know.

They why say it?

 

[weaver2]

Then you shouldn't assume what happens in the seasons you didn't watch.


They why say it?

Josie, there are no more nits to pick on this topic.Shall we call it good and find something else to talk about?

 

[Josie]

Josie, there are no more nits to pick on this topic.Shall we call it good and find something else to talk about?

If you want. Not sure why you brought it up if you didn’t want to discuss it.

 

[Lafayette]

Where is that right enumerated?

Being outside is key.

Sure, once it's born.

From what? A paper from South Africa? What does South African law have to do with US law?

The right to be born is inherent at conception amongst humans and needs no enumeration whatsoever except a factual Birth Certificate with date and hour.

The rest above is blah-blah-blah of which there is far too much on this forum because some people do not know how to debate.

The one-liner trash on a debate-forum is abominable and demonstrates obviously the lack of debate-skills ...

 

[Gordy327]

The right to be born is inherent at conception amongst humans and needs no enumeration whatsoever except a factual Birth Certificate with date and hour.

The rest above is blah-blah-blah of which there is far too much on this forum because some people do not know how to debate.

The one-liner trash on a debate-forum is abominable and demonstrates obviously the lack of debate-skills ...

So you can't cite where such a right is enumerated. That's all you had to say. The rest is mere dismissive opinion and whining.

 

[minnie616]

The right to be born is inherent at conception amongst humans and needs no enumeration whatsoever except a factual Birth Certificate with date and hour.

The rest above is blah-blah-blah of which there is far too much on this forum because some people do not know how to debate.

The one-liner trash on a debate-forum is abominable and demonstrates obviously the lack of debate-skills ...

There is no right to be born.

There is no right for a fertilized human egg to be implanted into the uterus.

There is no right for an embryo/fetus not to be miscarried.

Pregnancy is not a promise a child will be born.

It is just a maybe. NOT A PROMISE.

 

[OKgrannie]

You didn't keep going with the series.

What about the rest of my post? Who is all for a Handmaid's Tale country? Be specific.

Margaret Atwood, the author of The Handmaid's Tale, has said that nothing is described in the book that has not happened in real life somewhere. It's quite clear that a substantial number of people believe that women should not have civil rights, should be dependent and subservient to husbands or fathers.

 

[Lafayette]

So you can't cite where such a right is enumerated. That's all you had to say. The rest is mere dismissive opinion and whining.

Whine this, while you're at it: Citing the right by law is the rigorous way of establishing its authenticity. Is that necessary for the right to exist?

Methinks not - but, yes, simpletons will say that "it should be a law". So, we have one in the US. From here: Freedom of Speech

Freedom of speech ... as stated in the 1st and 14th Amendments to the Constitution of the United States to express information, ideas, and opinions free of government restrictions based on content.

Shall we also pass a law and add it to our constitution that the earth must revolve around the sun to please you ... ?

 

[Lafayette]

MALE-DISCRIMINATION AROUND THE WORLD

Margaret Atwood, the author of The Handmaid's Tale, has said that nothing is described in the book that has not happened in real life somewhere. It's quite clear that a substantial number of people believe that women should not have civil rights, should be dependent and subservient to husbands or fathers.

It is also quite clear that such an attitude is prevalent in a great number of countries that are insufficiently evolved as regards male/female equality. And particularly in those countries that have employed a Religious Law to underscore the fact that women are second-class citizens.

The world abounds in such and it is not just Arabic nations that indulge in such male-preferentiality. From here: Countries that Deny Women Equal Nationality Rights

Nationality laws in 27 countries worldwide prevent mothers from passing their nationality to their children on an equal basis with fathers. Over 60 countries deny women equal rights with men regarding the ability to acquire, change and retain their nationality, and to confer nationality to non-national spouses.

This discrimination results in significant human rights violations and suffering for individuals and families, contributing to a myriad of problems, including: statelessness; lack of access to public education, health care and other services; child marriage; increased risk of gender-based violence; unemployment and poverty; social alienation and psychological damage.

Countries that discriminate in a women’s ability to confer nationality to spouses and/or acquire, change and retain her nationality: Bahamas, Bahrain, Bangladesh, Barbados, Benin, Brunei, Burundi, Cameroon, Central African Republic, Comoros, Congo (Republic of), Egypt, Guatemala, Guinea, Iran, Iraq, Jordan, Kiribati, Kuwait, Lebanon, Lesotho, Libya, Madagascar, Malawi, Malaysia, Mali, Mauritania, Morocco, Nauru, Nepal, Niger, Nigeria, Oman, Pakistan, Qatar, Saint Lucia, Saint Vincent & Grenadines, Saudi Arabia, Sierra Leone, Solomon Islands, Somalia, Sudan, Swaziland, Syrian Arab Republic, Tanzania, Thailand, Togo, Tunisia, United Arab Emirates, Vanuatu, Yemen.

 

[Gordy327]

Whine this, while you're at it: Citing the right by law is the rigorous way of establishing its authenticity. Is that necessary for the right to exist?

Methinks not - but, yes, simpletons will say that "it should be a law". So, we have one in the US. From here: Freedom of Speech

Still no such "right" to be found anywhere, eh?

Shall we also pass a law and add it to our constitution that the earth must revolve around the sun to please you ... ?

You can make up anything you want. Such juvenile retorts only further proves you have no valid argument.

 

[Josie]

Margaret Atwood, the author of The Handmaid's Tale, has said that nothing is described in the book that has not happened in real life somewhere. It's quite clear that a substantial number of people believe that women should not have civil rights, should be dependent and subservient to husbands or fathers.

Oooooh, I see. So weaver was talking about people elsewhere and not the US. Sure.

 

[Lafayette]

LIFE IS ALL ABOUT LIFESPANS

There is no right to be born.

There is no right for a fertilized human egg to be implanted into the uterus.

There is no right for an embryo/fetus not to be miscarried.

Pregnancy is not a promise a child will be born.

It is just a maybe. NOT A PROMISE.

Who needs a "right to be born? It is the right of a woman to "give birth", and that is sufficient.

The above other rights are yours in your country. The rest of the world takes very seriously sickness, which is why they have National Healthcare Systems such that all citizens are cared-for competently and all at the same expense. The European National Healthcare Systems do not "promise long-lives" because that is simply beyond the means at the moment.

But, we can certainly in Europe make sickness a national-challenge and adopt a nationalized heathcare system to deal with it. Which, it seems, is absolutely impossible in the US.

But, we can't have that in Amerika, can we? That's European socialism!

Call it whatever you like - but it is the principle reason why our lifespans in Europe are 3-to-4 years longer than yours in the US ... !

 

[Gordy327]

LIFE IS ALL ABOUT LIFESPANS



Who needs a "right to be born? It is the right of a woman to "give birth", and that is sufficient.

The above other rights are yours in your country. The rest of the world takes very seriously sickness, which is why they have National Healthcare Systems such that all citizens are cared-for competently and all at the same expense. The European National Healthcare Systems do not "promise long-lives" because that is simply beyond the means at the moment.

But, we can certainly in Europe make sickness a national-challenge and adopt a nationalized heathcare system to deal with it. Which, it seems, is absolutely impossible in the US.

But, we can't have that in Amerika, can we? That's European socialism!

Call it whatever you like - but it is the principle reason why our lifespans in Europe are 3-to-4 years longer than yours in the US ... !

The woman is free to continue a pregnancy and give birth, or to not continue a pregnancy and abort it.

 

[Lafayette]

The woman is free to continue a pregnancy and give birth, or to not continue a pregnancy and abort it.

In the US. Also in Europe - with the exception of one country.

Poland ...

 

[Gordy327]

In the US. Also in Europe - with the exception of one country.

Poland ...

Ok, and your point is...?

 

[Lycanthrope]

This is a long thread and I admittedly haven't scrolled through all of it. That said, has anyone asked why the focus here is on outlawing abortion, and not on exploring the reasons why unwanted pregnancies happen in the first place? Right now the approach is reactive and restrictive - "abortions are bad, we must outlaw them." We'd be better served approaching the problem from a proactive and preventative mindset - "What are the causes and conditions that lead to unwanted pregnancies, and what can we do to reduce their frequency?"

 

[Gordy327]

This is a long thread and I admittedly haven't scrolled through all of it. That said, has anyone asked why the focus here is on outlawing abortion, and not on exploring the reasons why unwanted pregnancies happen in the first place? Right now the approach is reactive and restrictive - "abortions are bad, we must outlaw them." We'd be better served approaching the problem from a proactive and preventative mindset - "What are the causes and conditions that lead to unwanted pregnancies, and what can we do to reduce their frequency?"

I'm going to go out on a limb and say unwanted pregnancies happen because people generally like to have sex. Just a thought.

 

[Lafayette]

This is a long thread and I admittedly haven't scrolled through all of it. That said, has anyone asked why the focus here is on outlawing abortion, and not on exploring the reasons why unwanted pregnancies happen in the first place? Right now the approach is reactive and restrictive - "abortions are bad, we must outlaw them." We'd be better served approaching the problem from a proactive and preventative mindset - "What are the causes and conditions that lead to unwanted pregnancies, and what can we do to reduce their frequency?"

This problem is for Americans to resolve.

Here is Europe's version, from here: Abortion in Europe

Despite a wide variation in the restrictions under which it is permitted, abortion is legal in most European countries. 95% of European women of reproductive age live in countries which allow abortion on demand or for broad socioeconomic reasons.