Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?[W:192]

[Common Sense 1]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

Considering Pence is rabidly anti-gay and anti-science, it's perfectly reasonable to point out to him that it makes you very, very concerned. Pence would have many of the actors who are gay stripped of their basic human rights.

If you can't be a vice president to all Americans you shouldn't be one at all. I hope this is the first of many times Pence is called out on his hatred and ignorance.

A big blast of hyperbole! Liberal talking points!!

 

[Rasselas]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

Doesn't matter to me. I voted for neither Hillary not Trump. But I recognize the stench of liberal smugness. The irony is that every one of these episodes adds to Trump's support.

If you mean that Trump's supporters respond in knee-jerk fashion to any opposition from the bi-coastal elite, I think you're probably right, but those folks couldn't hate cultural elites more--they're already at 100%

But I think you misread the message. You should actually read it again. It was an interpretation of the art they were making as much as it was a plea for Pence to follow in our Founders footsteps (as these cast members see them). Dixon asked Pence to protect all the people. Isn't that his obligation under the Constitution? What did they ask him to do that was even ideological? Doesn't everyone get equal protection under the law?

 

[Common Sense 1]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

Like I said in another thread on the same topic.

It's Rude, Crude, and Socially unacceptable any where but New York city.

Politics has no place at a Broadway show!! PERIOD!

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

Considering Pence is rabidly anti-gay and anti-science, it's perfectly reasonable to point out to him that it makes you very, very concerned. Pence would have many of the actors who are gay stripped of their basic human rights.

If you can't be a vice president to all Americans you shouldn't be one at all. I hope this is the first of many times Pence is called out on his hatred and ignorance.

Another example of the moral smugness among his opponents which aided Trump's win.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

I think expressing alarm is perfectly appropriate, if one is alarmed. And there are lots of people alarmed, so it's being an "unproven opinion" (what does that even mean?) is a dubious claim.

"alarmed that you will not" is the terminology that was used, it was speculation advertised as fact, at is was also the uncivility of not giving their fellow Americans even one day on the job before they trashed the effort.

 

[gdgyva]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

At a guess, in their arrogance and vanity they assume "the other half" consists entirely of uncultured deplorables who would never set foot in a theater anyway.


They're wrong, of course. :shrug:

A lot of us so called deplorables are the only ones that can afford those thousand dollar seats

I recently bought tickets for the show for my in laws as their anniversary present

They couldn't afford to see the show, so my wife and I decided it would make a great memorable evening

Now I am not so sure....their tickets are for later in December....

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

If you mean that Trump's supporters respond in knee-jerk fashion to any opposition from the bi-coastal elite, I think you're probably right, but those folks couldn't hate cultural elites more--they're already at 100%

But I think you misread the message. You should actually read it again. It was an interpretation of the art they were making as much as it was a plea for Pence to follow in our Founders footsteps (as these cast members see them). Dixon asked Pence to protect all the people. Isn't that his obligation under the Constitution? What did they ask him to do that was even ideological? Doesn't everyone get equal protection under the law?

Thank you for making my point. If it is his obligation under the Constitution, by what delegation of celestial insight does Dixon presume that Pence needs additional instruction? It was smug liberal condescension, and an insult.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

A lot of us so called deplorables are the only ones that can afford those thousand dollar seats

I recently bought tickets for the show for my in laws as their anniversary present

They couldn't afford to see the show, so my wife and I decided it would make a great memorable evening

Now I am not so sure....their tickets are for later in December....

Plus it appears that you money is going to support creeps.

 

[Rasselas]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

"We are alarmed that you will not" (which is what they said) is not a statement of concern...

How is it not a statement of concern? It seems precisely that to me.

"we are concerned that maybe you will not" would have been a statement of concern.....

That's a nice distinction, but not a significant one.

and even that should not have been said with out allowing Pence the courtesy of a response.

How do you figure? Did he ask for the microphone and they refused him? You can't say they didn't allow him a response--he sought no such opportunity. He could have that opportunity at any point by simply showing up in the lobby of Trump Tower. He'd see his response in print and on TV instantly. Don't say one of the most powerful people in the world is rhetorically impotent. It's unbecoming.

The english language has rules which must be followed when examining other peoples statements, one is not allowed to sub their personal dictionaries.

That's really funny, that to avoid dealing with the substance of someone's words because they choose a dialect other than the standard. THAT'S really elitist. (And dictionaries don't set out "rules which must be followed when examining people's statements.")

This was a lecture claiming that a government that has not even sat yet does not measure up.

Which was unfair and was dishonest, because they were making predictions, they were not stating facts.

Goodness, for someone who insists on narrow rule-following, you certainly take liberties yourself. This is a massive generalization to make from a fairly specific statement.

Every intelligent human mind contemplates the future based on experience of the past. He's expressing a very popular opinion. Pence and Trump would be unwise to ignore it, just as Clinton and Democrats were unwise to write off so many of Trump's supporters.

 

[Rasselas]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

Thank you for making my point. If it is his obligation under the Constitution, by what delegation of celestial insight does Dixon presume that Pence needs additional instruction? It was smug liberal condescension, and an insult.

No, it was a perfectly legitimate thing to ask--a popular question--after Trump and Pence ran such a divisive campaign that demonized so many people within our borders. If it was truly insulting to Pence, he could easily have simply reassured everyone that they will. If the alarm expressed is really misplaced, they could alleviate that anxiety pretty easily.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

No, it was a perfectly legitimate thing to ask--a popular question--after Trump and Pence ran such a divisive campaign that demonized so many people within our borders. If it was truly insulting to Pence, he could easily have simply reassured everyone that they will. If the alarm expressed is really misplaced, they could alleviate that anxiety pretty easily.

It would have been a mistake for Pence to respond because that would have granted Dixon unmerited legitimacy. The claim that "Trump and Pence ran such a divisive campaign that demonized so many people" is a political statement which is no basis for Dixon's presumptuous and inappropriate remarks.

 

[Paperview]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

It would have been a mistake for Pence to respond because that would have granted Dixon unmerited legitimacy. The claim that "Trump and Pence ran such a divisive campaign that demonized so many people" is a political statement which is no basis for Dixon's presumptuous and inappropriate remarks.

What color is the sky in your world?

 

[Rasselas]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

It would have been a mistake for Pence to respond because that would have granted Dixon unmerited legitimacy.

Maybe, but that doesn't refute the point I was making

The claim that "Trump and Pence ran such a divisive campaign that demonized so many people" is a political statement which is no basis for Dixon's presumptuous and inappropriate remarks.

No, actually it expresses the basis of his comments. Whether they were presumptuous or inappropriate has to do with how serious or legitimate one believes the message to be.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

What color is the sky in your world?

In a campaign during which Hillary called Trump's supporters "deplorables" it is myopic to claim Trump and Pence were uniquely divisive.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

Maybe, but that doesn't refute the point I was making No, actually it expresses the basis of his comments. Whether they were presumptuous or inappropriate has to do with how serious or legitimate one believes the message to be.

It was inappropriate for Dixon to presume to deliver any message at all.

 

[RickJames3000]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

In a campaign during which Hillary called Trump's supporters "deplorables" it is myopic to claim Trump and Pence were uniquely divisive.

Aw, did the mean woman call you a bad name?
Apparently snowflakes come in all political stripes.
Get over it.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

In a campaign during which Hillary called Trump's supporters "deplorables" it is myopic to claim Trump and Pence were uniquely divisive.

The Divisiveness starts at the top these days.

The American people decide who we are, not the elite.

Bout time they learned.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

Aw, did the mean woman call you a bad name?
Apparently snowflakes come in all political stripes.
Get over it.

I didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton. I recognize her shortcomings as well as his.

 

[RickJames3000]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

I didn't vote for either Trump or Clinton. I recognize her shortcomings as well as his.

Yeah, well...

Point being that there are ugly names thrown all over the place in this political climate. The Hamilton crew wasn't talking about name-calling. They were talking about Pence's very real history of supporting legislative proposals that would systematically strip a segment of the population of their civil rights.

Having said that, it wasn't right of me to assume you were a Trump-supporter. I stand corrected.

 

[RenoCon]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

There is a genuinely crazy gay conversion movement. Pence wooed them, didn't quite jump into bed. But he was anti-gay...

"Pence wrote on his campaign website, under a section called Strengthening the American Family:

"Resources should be directed toward those institutions which provide assistance to those seeking to change their sexual behavior."

Which is why Politifact rates the accusation as true.


True: Mike Pence advocated for 'conversion therapy' | PolitiFact California

Politifact has a well known political bias. Apparently you did not read the Snopes article regarding this.

 

[Van Basten]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

Yes, it was.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

Yes, it was.

Means not a damn thing till you define "it" and "was".

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

Yeah, well...

Point being that there are ugly names thrown all over the place in this political climate. The Hamilton crew wasn't talking about name-calling. They were talking about Pence's very real history of supporting legislative proposals that would systematically strip a segment of the population of their civil rights.

Having said that, it wasn't right of me to assume you were a Trump-supporter. I stand corrected.

Fair enough. My point has been that it was an insult to Pence, and disrespectful, to presume he does not know his constitutional duty.

 

[Van Basten]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

This made me love Hamilton even more. <3

Agreed, they have triggered right wingers losing their minds. It's hilarious.

 

[CriticalThought]

Re: Was the Hamilton Crew/Owners Lecture to Pence Appropriate?

I am actually surprised. I saw nothing in what the cast said that justified the anger towards them that followed. Is this where we are? People can't even exercise their free speech by politely voicing their concerns with this administration without facing vitriol and hatred? How is that any different than me arguing all Trump supporters are some sort of monolithic group of bigots, misogynists, and racists? Have we fallen so far into tribalism and partisanship that we can no longer see each other as individuals with legitimate feelings, beliefs, and concerns?