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War on Terror?!?!?

AnarchyintheUS

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my question since the beginning of the bogus war has been: How do you declare a war on terror? This is such a vague declaration that it can seemingly never have an end. How are we, the United States, going to stop terror single-handedly given we have almost no real support from other countries. The government spends so much money on the military that it is astonishing. I attend UMass Lowell, and the amount of money that the government spends in military could send 19,000,000 people to my school for four years including room and board. That is an amazing amount of money for a war that can never be won.

The only way we are ever going to stop terrorism is if we stop committing it in other countries. The list of unjustified military intervention on the part of the United States is a mile long, and the arrogance of our country to say that we know what is right and you are all wrong is what spawns these terrorist attacks in the first place.

I say that it is time we pull our troops out of Iraq, Afghanistan, and all of the other unnecessary locations in the world. Maybe then we could get some respect from the other nations of the world not engaging in imperialism.
 

LogicalReason

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I agree.. we should pull our troops out of every part of the world. Except afghanistan and iraq lol.

But the problem arises that when we do pull our troops out or we don't send our troops in.. we are accused and degraded for not helping the world, not stopping an injustice, etc etc. On the flip side when we do help the world or stop an injustice they say we are arrogant and need to leave everyone alone.

We need to stop beating ourselves up over parts of the world hating us. Most nations are hated by parts of the world.. we aren't alone.
 

AnarchyintheUS

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I disagree on one point:
But the problem arises that when we do pull our troops out or we don't send our troops in.. we are accused and degraded for not helping the world
.

I think removing our troops from foreign nations will have a very positive effect. I think that we can still be helping the world by giving aid, helping rebuild, and providing amnesty to refugees and immigrants, but occupying coutries in the name of the War on Terror is not helping the world, and the rest of the world knows this.
 

oldreliable67

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AnarchyintheUS said:
That is an amazing amount of money for a war that can never be won.

No. This is a war that must be won.

AnarchyintheUS said:
The only way we are ever going to stop terrorism is if we stop committing it in other countries. The list of unjustified military intervention on the part of the United States is a mile long, and the arrogance of our country to say that we know what is right and you are all wrong is what spawns these terrorist attacks in the first place.

You clearly do not understand the goals of radical Islamic fundamentalists in the world today. Are you certain that you know the difference between 'military intervention' and the provision of military assistance to countries that are fighting al Qaeda-linked terrorist organizations? Doesn't sound like it.

LogicalReason said:
But the problem arises that when we do pull our troops out or we don't send our troops in.. we are accused and degraded for not helping the world, not stopping an injustice, etc etc. On the flip side when we do help the world or stop an injustice they say we are arrogant and need to leave everyone alone.

Quite true. For a look and exactly how some of this happens, see the thread on the Sudan/Darfur...

http://debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?t=9324
 

ProudAmerican

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this "bogus" war on terror has been going on much longer than 4 years.
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1970s

Assaination of Robert Kenedy by a pali gunman.

Attack on the Munich Airport, February 10, 1970: 1 killed,11 were injured.

Munich Olympic Massacre, September 5, 1972: 14 killed when Eight
Palestinian "Black September"

Ambassador to Sudan Assassinated, March 2, 1973: 1 dead. U.S. Ambassador
to Sudan Cleo A. Noel

Attack and Hijacking at the Rome Airport, December 17, 1973: 31 Dead,
body thrown out onto the tarmac in Lebenon
Entebbe Hostage Crisis, June 27, 1976: Air France airliner and its 258
passengers. Liberated by the IDF

US Ambassador to Afghanistan Assassinated, February 14, 1979: Four
Afghans kidnapped U.S. Ambassador Adolph Dubs killed in Kabul.

Iran Hostage Crisis, November 4, 1979: After President Carter agreed to
admit the Shah of Iran into the US, Iranian radicals seized the U.S.
Embassy in Tehran and took 66 American diplomats hostage for 444 days.
Thirteen hostages were soon released, but the remaining 53 were held
until their release on January 20, 1981.

Grand Mosque Seizure, November 20, 1979: 200 Islamic terrorists seized
the Grand Mosque in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, taking hundreds of pilgrims
hostage. Saudi and French security forces retook the shrine after an
intense battle in which some 250 people were killed and 600 wounded.

1980s

Assassination of Egyptian President, October 6, 1981: Soldiers who were
secretly members of the Takfir Wal-Hajira sect attacked and killed
Egyptian President Anwar Sadat during a troop review.

Bombing of U.S. Embassy in Beirut, April 18, 1983: Sixty-three people,
including the CIA’s Middle East director, were killed and 120 were
injured in a 400-pound suicide truck-bomb attack on the U.S. Embassy in
Beirut, Lebanon. The Islamic Jihad claimed responsibility.

Bombing of Marine Barracks, Beirut, October 23, 1983: Simultaneous
suicide truck-bomb attacks were made on American and French compounds in
Beirut, Lebanon. A 12,000-pound bomb destroyed the U.S. compound,
killing 242 Americans, while 58 French troops were killed when a
400-pound device destroyed a French base. Islamic Jihad claimed
responsibility.

Kidnapping of Embassy Official, March 16, 1984: The Islamic Jihad
kidnapped and later murdered Political Officer William Buckley in
Beirut, Lebanon. Other U.S. citizens not connected to the U.S.
government were seized over a succeeding two-year period.

Restaurant Bombing in Spain, April 12, 1984: 18 U.S. servicemen were
killed and 83 people were injured in a bomb attack on a restaurant near
a U.S. Air Force Base in Torrejon, Spain.

Temple Seizure, June 5, 1984: Sikh terrorists seized the Golden Temple
in Amritsar, India. One hundred people died when Indian security forces
retook the Sikh holy shrine.

TWA Hijacking, June 14, 1985: A Trans-World Airlines flight was hijacked
en route to Rome from Athens by two Lebanese Hizballah terrorists and
forced to fly to Beirut. The eight crew members and 145 passengers were
held for seventeen days, during which one American hostage, a U.S. Navy
sailor, was murdered. After being flown twice to Algiers, the aircraft
was returned to Beirut after Israel released 435 Lebanese and
Palestinian prisoners.

Soviet Diplomats Kidnapped, September 30, 1985: In Beirut, Lebanon,
Sunni terrorists kidnapped four Soviet diplomats. One was killed but
three were later released.

Achille Lauro Hijacking, October 7, 1985: Four Palestinian Liberation
Front terrorists seized the Italian cruise liner in the eastern
Mediterranean Sea, taking more than 700 hostages. One U.S. passenger was
murdered before the Egyptian government offered the terrorists safe
haven in return for the hostages’ freedom.

Egyptian Airliner Hijacking, November 23, 1985: An EgyptAir airplane
bound from Athens to Malta and carrying several U.S. citizens was
hijacked by the Abu Nidal Group.

Airport Attacks in Rome and Vienna, December 27, 1985: Four gunmen
belonging to the Abu Nidal Organization attacked the El Al and Trans
World Airlines ticket counters at Rome’s Leonardo da Vinci Airport with
grenades and automatic rifles. Thirteen persons were killed and 75 were
wounded before Italian police and Israeli security guards killed three
of the gunmen and captured the fourth. Three more Abu Nidal gunmen
attacked the El Al ticket counter at Vienna’s Schwechat Airport, killing
three persons and wounding 30. Austrian police killed one of the gunmen
and captured the others.

Aircraft Bombing in Greece, March 30, 1986: A Palestinian splinter group
detonated a bomb as TWA Flight 840 approached Athens airport, killing
four U.S. citizens.

Berlin Discothèque Bombing, April 5, 1986: Two U.S. soldiers were killed
and 79 American servicemen were injured in a Libyan bomb attack on a
nightclub in West Berlin, West Germany. In retaliation U.S. military
jets bombed targets in and around Tripoli and Benghazi.

Kidnapping of William Higgins, February 17, 1988: U.S. Marine Corps
Lieutenant Colonel W. Higgins was kidnapped and murdered by the
Iranian-backed Hizballah group while serving with the United Nations
Truce Supervisory Organization (UNTSO) in southern Lebanon.

Naples USO Attack, April 14, 1988: The Organization of Jihad Brigades
exploded a car-bomb outside a USO Club in Naples, Italy, killing one
U.S. sailor.

Pan Am 103 Bombing, December 21, 1988: Pan American Airlines Flight 103
was blown up over Lockerbie, Scotland, by a bomb believed to have been
placed on the aircraft by Libyan terrorists in Frankfurt, West Germany.
All 259 people on board were killed.

Bombing of UTA Flight 772, September 19, 1989: A bomb explosion
destroyed UTA Flight 772 over the Sahara Desert in southern ***** during
a flight from Brazzaville to Paris. All 170 persons aboard were killed.
Six Libyans were later found guilty in absentia and sentenced to life
imprisonment.
 

ProudAmerican

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1990s

Attempted Iraqi Attacks on U.S. Posts, January 18-19, 1991: Iraqi agents
planted bombs at the U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia’s home residence and
at the USIS library in Manila.

Bombing of the Israeli Embassy in Argentina, March 17, 1992: Hizballah
claimed responsibility for a blast that leveled the Israeli Embassy in
Buenos Aires, Argentina, causing the deaths of 29 and wounding 242.


World Trade Center Bombing, February 26, 1993: The World Trade Center in
New York City was badly damaged when a car bomb planted by Islamic
terrorists exploded in an underground garage. The bomb left 6 people
dead and 1,000 injured. The men carrying out the attack were followers
of Umar Abd al-Rahman, an Egyptian cleric who preached in the New York
City area.

Attempted Assassination of President Bush by Iraqi Agents, April 14,
1993: The Iraqi intelligence service attempted to assassinate former
U.S. President George Bush during a visit to Kuwait. In retaliation, the
U.S. launched a cruise missile attack 2 months later on the Iraqi
capital Baghdad.

Air France Hijacking, December 24, 1994: Members of the Armed Islamic
Group seized an Air France Flight to Algeria. The four terrorists were
killed during a rescue effort.

Attack on U.S. Diplomats in Pakistan, March 8, 1995: Two unidentified
gunmen killed two U.S. diplomats and wounded a third in Karachi, Pakistan.

Kashmiri Hostage-taking, July 4, 1995: In India six foreigners,
including two U.S. citizens, were taken hostage by Al-Faran, a Kashmiri
separatist group. One non-U.S. hostage was later found beheaded.

Jerusalem Bus Attack, August 21, 1995: HAMAS claimed responsibility for
the detonation of a bomb that killed 6 and injured over 100 persons,
including several U.S. citizens.

Saudi Military Installation Attack, November 13, 1995: The Islamic
Movement of Change planted a bomb in a Riyadh military compound that
killed one U.S. citizen, several foreign national employees of the U.S.
government, and over 40 others.

Egyptian Embassy Attack, November 19, 1995: A suicide bomber drove a
vehicle into the Egyptian Embassy compound in Islamabad, Pakistan,
killing at least 16 and injuring 60 persons. Three militant Islamic
groups claimed responsibility.

HAMAS Bus Attack, February 26, 1996: In Jerusalem, a suicide bomber blew
up a bus, killing 26 persons, including three U.S. citizens, and
injuring some 80 persons, including three other US citizens.

Dizengoff Center Bombing, March 4, 1996: HAMAS and the Palestine Islamic
Jihad (PIJ) both claimed responsibility for a bombing outside of Tel
Aviv's largest shopping mall that killed 20 persons and injured 75
others, including 2 U.S. citizens.

West Bank Attack, May 13, 1996: Arab gunmen opened fire on a bus and a
group of Yeshiva students near the Bet El settlement, killing a dual
U.S./Israeli citizen and wounding three Israelis. No one claimed
responsibility for the attack, but HAMAS was suspected.

Khobar Towers Bombing, June 25, 1996: A fuel truck carrying a bomb
exploded outside the US military's Khobar Towers housing facility in
Dhahran, killing 19 U.S. military personnel and wounding 515 persons,
including 240 U.S. personnel. Several groups claimed responsibility for
the attack.

Egyptian Letter Bombs, January 2-13, 1997: A series of letter bombs with
Alexandria, Egypt, postmarks were discovered at Al-Hayat newspaper
bureaus in Washington, New York City, London, and Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.
Three similar devices, also postmarked in Egypt, were found at a prison
facility in Leavenworth, Kansas. Bomb disposal experts defused all the
devices, but one detonated at the Al-Hayat office in London, injuring
two security guards and causing minor damage.

Empire State Building Sniper Attack, February 23, 1997: A Palestinian
gunman opened fire on tourists at an observation deck atop the Empire
State Building in New York City, killing a Danish national and wounding
visitors from the United States, Argentina, Switzerland, and France
before turning the gun on himself. A handwritten note carried by the
gunman claimed this was a punishment attack against the "enemies of
Palestine."

Israeli Shopping Mall Bombing, September 4, 1997: Three suicide bombers
of HAMAS detonated bombs in the Ben Yehuda shopping mall in Jerusalem,
killing eight persons, including the bombers, and wounding nearly 200
others. A dual U.S./Israeli citizen was among the dead, and 7 U.S.
citizens were wounded.

Murder of U.S. Businessmen in Pakistan, November 12, 1997: Two
unidentified gunmen shot to death four U.S. auditors from Union Texas
Petroleum Corporation and their Pakistani driver after they drove away
from the Sheraton Hotel in Karachi. The Islami Inqilabi Council, or
Islamic Revolutionary Council, claimed responsibility in a call to the
U.S. Consulate in Karachi. In a letter to Pakistani newspapers, the
Aimal Khufia Action Committee also claimed responsibility.

Tourist Killings in Egypt, November 17, 1997: Al-Gama'at al-Islamiyya
(IG) gunmen shot and killed 58 tourists and four Egyptians and wounded
26 others at the Hatshepsut Temple in the Valley of the Kings near
Luxor. Thirty-four Swiss, eight Japanese, five Germans, four Britons,
one French, one Colombian, a dual Bulgarian/British citizen, and four
unidentified persons were among the dead. Twelve Swiss, two Japanese,
two Germans, one French, and nine Egyptians were among the wounded.

Somali Hostage-takings, April 15, 1998: Somali militiamen abducted nine
Red Cross and Red Crescent workers at an airstrip north of Mogadishu.
The hostages included a U.S. citizen, a German, a Belgian, a French, a
Norwegian, two Swiss, and one Somali. The gunmen were members of a
sub-clan loyal to Ali Mahdi Mohammed, who controlled the northern
section of the capital.

U.S. Embassy Bombings in East Africa, August 7, 1998: A bomb exploded at
the rear entrance of the U.S. Embassy in Nairobi, Kenya, killing 12 U.S.
citizens, 32 Foreign Service Nationals (FSNs), and 247 Kenyan citizens.
Approximately 5,000 Kenyans, 6 U.S. citizens, and 13 FSNs were injured.
The U.S. Embassy building sustained extensive structural damage. Almost
simultaneously, a bomb detonated outside the U.S. Embassy in Dar es
Salaam, Tanzania, killing 7 FSNs and 3 Tanzanian citizens, and injuring
1 U.S. citizen and 76 Tanzanians. The explosion caused major structural
damage to the U.S. Embassy facility. The U.S. Government held Usama Bin
Laden responsible.

Indian Airlines Airbus Hijacking, December 24, 1999: Five militants
hijacked a flight bound from Katmandu to New Delhi carrying 189 people.
The plane and its passengers were released unharmed on December 31.
 

ProudAmerican

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2000 and beyond

Kidnappings in Kyrgyzstan, August 12, 2000: In the Kara-Su Valley, the
Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan took four U.S. citizens hostage. The
Americans escaped on August 12.

Church Bombing in Tajikistan, October 1, 2000: Unidentified militants
detonated two bombs in a Christian church in Dushanbe, killing seven
persons and injuring 70 others. The church was founded by a Korean-born
U.S. citizen, and most of those killed and wounded were Korean. No one
claimed responsibility.

Attack on U.S.S. Cole, October 12, 2000: In Aden, Yemen, a small dingy
carrying explosives rammed the destroyer U.S.S. Cole, killing 17 sailors
and injuring 39 others. Supporters of Usama Bin Laden were suspected.

Manila Bombing, December 30, 2000: A bomb exploded in a plaza across the
street from the U.S. Embassy in Manila, injuring nine persons. The Moro
Islamic Liberation Front was likely responsible.

Suicide Bombing in Israel, March 4, 2001: A suicide bomb attack in
Netanya killed 3 persons and wounded 65. HAMAS later claimed responsibility.

Airliner Hijacking in Istanbul, March 15, 2001: Three Chechens hijacked
a Russian airliner during a flight from Istanbul to Moscow and forced it
to fly to Medina, Saudi Arabia. The plane carried 162 passengers and a
crew of 12. After a 22-hour siege during which more than 40 passengers
were released, Saudi security forces stormed the plane, killing a
hijacker, a passenger, and a flight attendant.

Bus Stop Bombing, April 22, 2001: A member of HAMAS detonated a bomb he
was carrying near a bus stop in Kfar Siva, Israel, killing one person
and injuring 60.

Philippines Hostage Incident, May 27, 2001: Muslim Abu Sayyaf guerrillas
seized 13 tourists and 3 staff members at a resort on Palawan Island and
took their captives to Basilan Island. The captives included three U.S.
citizens: Guellermo Sobero and missionaries Martin and Gracia Burnham.
Philippine troops fought a series of battles with the guerrillas between
June 1 and June 3 during which 9 hostages escaped and two were found
dead. The guerrillas took additional hostages when they seized the
hospital in the town of Lamitan. On June 12, Abu Sayyaf spokesman Abu
Sabaya claimed that Sobero had been killed and beheaded; his body was
found in October. The Burnhams remained in captivity until June 2002.

Tel-Aviv Nightclub Bombing, June 1, 2001: HAMAS claimed responsibility
for the suicide bombing of a popular Israeli nightclub that caused over
140 casualties.

HAMAS Restaurant Bombing, August 9, 2001: A HAMAS-planted bomb detonated
in a Jerusalem pizza restaurant, killing 15 people and wounding more
than 90. The Israeli response included occupation of Orient House, the
Palestine Liberation Organization’s political headquarters in East
Jerusalem.

Suicide Bombing in Israel, September 9, 2001: The first suicide bombing
carried out by an Israeli Arab killed 3 persons in Nahariya. HAMAS
claimed responsibility.

Death of "the Lion of the Panjshir", September 9, 2001: Two suicide
bombers fatally wounded Ahmed Shah Massoud, a leader of Afghanistan’s
Northern Alliance, which had opposed both the Soviet occupation and the
post-Soviet Taliban government. The bombers posed as journalists and
were apparently linked to al-Qaida. The Northern Alliance did not
confirm Massoud’s death until September 15.

Terrorist Attacks on U.S. Homeland, September 11, 2001: Two hijacked
airliners crashed into the twin towers of the World Trade Center. Soon
thereafter, the Pentagon was struck by a third hijacked plane. A fourth
hijacked plane, suspected to be bound for a high-profile target in
Washington, crashed into a field in southern Pennsylvania. The attacks
killed 3,025 U.S. citizens and other nationals. President Bush and
Cabinet officials indicated that Usama Bin Laden was the prime suspect
and that they considered the United States in a state of war with
international terrorism. In the aftermath of the attacks, the United
States formed the Global Coalition Against Terrorism.

Attack on the Jammu and Kashmir Legislature, October 1, 2001: After a
suicide car bomber forced the gate of the state legislature in Srinagar,
two gunmen entered the building and held off police for seven hours
before being killed. Forty persons died in the incident.
Jaish-e-Muhammad claimed responsibility.

Anthrax Attacks, October-November 2001: On October 7 the U.S. Centers
for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) reported that investigators had
detected evidence that the deadly anthrax bacterium was present in the
building where a Florida man who died of anthrax on October 5 had
worked. Discovery of a second anthrax case triggered a major
investigation by the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI). The two
anthrax cases were the first to appear in the United States in 25 years.
Anthrax subsequently appeared in mail received by television networks in
New York and by the offices in Washington of Senate Majority Leader Tom
Daschle and other members of Congress. Attorney General John Ashcroft
said in a briefing on October 16, "When people send anthrax through the
mail to hurt people and invoke terror, it’s a terrorist act."

Assassination of an Israeli Cabinet Minister, October 17, 2001: A
Palestinian gunman assassinated Israeli Minister of Tourism Rehavam
Zeevi in the Jerusalem hotel where he was staying. The Popular Front for
the Liberation of Palestine (PFLP) claimed to have avenged the death of
PFLP Mustafa Zubari.

Attack on a Church in Pakistan, October 28, 2001: Six masked gunmen shot
up a church in Bahawalpur, Pakistan, killing 15 Pakistani Christians. No
group claimed responsibility, although various militant Muslim groups
were suspected.

Suicide Bombings in Jerusalem, December 1, 2001: Two suicide bombers
attacked a Jerusalem shopping mall, killing 10 persons and wounding 170.

Suicide Bombing in Haifa, December 2, 2001: A suicide bomb attack aboard
a bus in Haifa, Israel, killed 15 persons and wounded 40. HAMAS claimed
responsibility for both this attack and those on December 1 to avenge
the death of a HAMAS member at the hands of Israeli forces a week earlier.

Attack on the Indian Parliament, December 13, 2001: Five gunmen attacked
the Indian Parliament in New Delhi shortly after it had adjourned.
Before security forces killed them, the attackers killed 6 security
personnel and a gardener. Indian officials blamed Lashkar-e-Tayyiba and
demanded that Pakistan crack down on it and on other Muslim separatist
groups in Kashmir.
 

ProudAmerican

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and thats not all of my list, but I figured you would get the point.

for those that think this war is "bogus" , or unwinable, or a fabrication, or nonsense.......realize this.

Muslem extremeists wan you dead. your choices are to win, or die.

or you can take the common third option and ignore the problem alltogether. pretend its a fabrication, or doesnt exist, even when faced with unending proof of its reality.
 

mikhail

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I wish people wouldnt think pulling out our troops is even an option it would leave iraq a disaster area mass killings of the sunni muslims dont forget the sanctions pre-war caused malnutrition and poverty for the people of iraq for years its the oil in iraq that will eventually make the quality of life better for the iraqi people. How are they going to produce oil sufficently in a civil war.

I think the problem is while the middle east is begining to lean towards democracy its certainly not the liberal democracy the west would like.Fact is its likely iraqis would vote in some if not a majority of radical islamists into government if they could.The few elderly muslims ive talked to have claimed the younger generations in the middle east are far more less moderate with regards to religion than their generation.

being anti-western make politicians very popular in the middle east without a doubt. I think the idea that we can have of global consensus of what a democracy should be is wrong and the two ideologys are incapatable.

fact is the process of multiculturalism is much slower than the spread of the radical islamic movement and maybe the answer lies in agreeing to disagree.However the fact that israel is bang in the middle of these countries and the western worlds dependency on oil means we are stuck in constant conflicts and involved in the politics of the middle east.

But basically i feel if we can help democracy blossom in iraq regardless of if the government is exactly what we wanted or not we can feel we have achieved something that in the long term will have been for the greater good.

After which we need to double are effort diplomaticly to help isreal and palastine to make lasting peace.
 
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