• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!
  • Welcome to our archives. No new posts are allowed here.

War on terror = War for Israel

FinnMacCool said:
This thread reeks of anti semitism

Bullllllshiiiit ..... anti semtism means anti certain race or religion , therefore if you are against jews , then you're anti semitist .... But if you are against Israel that doesn't make you anti semitist .... Israel is just a country , you have the right to like it , or despise it .... The same goes for zionism , since it's just a political movement , there you have the same right to like or dislike ....

Somehow , people started to believe that Israel is a holy country , If you don't like it , you're considered a bad person ....

Wake up people , Israel is just a country .....
 
mustafa said:
Bullllllshiiiit ..... anti semtism means anti certain race or religion , therefore if you are against jews , then you're anti semitist .... But if you are against Israel that doesn't make you anti semitist .... Israel is just a country , you have the right to like it , or despise it .... The same goes for zionism , since it's just a political movement , there you have the same right to like or dislike ....

Somehow , people started to believe that Israel is a holy country , If you don't like it , you're considered a bad person ....

Wake up people , Israel is just a country .....
But is it a country just like every other one?...Is Saudia Arabia a country and not a holy country?...You know...where they don't let non-believers into certain cities?...Was Palestine EVER a country?...Do you consider the leader of Iran anti-Semetic?
 
cnredd said:
Was Palestine EVER a country?

Who cares?

Of the 800,000 people that lived in Israel only 170,000 were allowed to stay after the implementation of the UN partition plan. That's pretty screwed up, if you ask me.
 
Question all you want, but it's futile. This thread smacks of a personal agenda to attack Jews and America. More of the same :roll:

It's a simple thing. Regardless of who is Jewish and how our actions in the Middle East benefit Israel and Americans, there is one solid fact...

Israel is the only Democratic nation in the Middle East surrounded by dictatorships, Islamic theocracies, and terrorist sponsering nations.

Hmmm....how dare us protect them. Let's not stop there though. When the going gets tough, lets rub our asses in the Frenchs' face, the Englishs' face, the Spanish's face, the South Koreans faces, the Taiwanese faces, and every other ally we have when our enemies make the going too hard for our masses that don't wear a uniform one way or the other.
 
Last edited:
Gandhi>Bush said:
Who cares?

Of the 800,000 people that lived in Israel only 170,000 were allowed to stay after the implementation of the UN partition plan. That's pretty screwed up, if you ask me.


It's history. One of the biggest problems in the Middle East is that they are living in the past and not a part of the 21st century with the rest of us.
 
Re: War on terror = War on Israel

TimmyBoy said:
Investigations and governments do tell outright lies to the people and many people believe these lies. However, i can't say for sure what really happenned.
I wasn't there that fateful day either Timmy... and I can't say for sure what happened either. I did read the entirety of the three Israeli (Knesset/IDF/IDF) investigations, and also the entirety of two US Congressional investigations. All of these investigations concluded that the attack was a tragic mistake. Here are the links to two opposing American viewpoints:

USS Liberty: Cover Up - By James Bamford
Mr. Bamford is the author of 'The Puzzle Palace and Body of Secrets'.

USS Liberty: Israel Did Not Intend to Bomb the Ship - By A. Jay Cristol
Mr. Cristol is the author of 'The Liberty Incident'.



 
White said:
Ps. English isn´t my first language.
Nor is it my first language White. In fact, English is my third language. Touché!



 
I hate these kind of threads. They serve no intelligent purpose.

"War on terror = War for Israel"

Since the "War on terror" is taking place in Afghanistan, Phillipines, Indonesia, Australia, England, Spain, the Balkans, in the HOA, and in other places.......

War on terror = War for Spain
War on terror = War for Japan
War on terror = War for Phillipines
War on terror = War for England
War on terror = War for France (thankless bastards, but they'll pay with their homegrown Islamic problems)
War on terror = War for Afghanistan
War on terror = War for Australia
War on terror = War for Belgium
War on terror = War for Germany (currently in the HOA with U.S. Marines)
War on terror = War for Indonesia
War on terror = War for Ethiopia
War on terror = War for Iraq
War on terror = War for Bosnia
War on terror = War for the people of Syria
War on terror = War for the people of Iran
War on terror = War for the people of Saudi Arabia

I'm tired of typing, but I'm sure you see my point. Instead of looking at the entire picture, emphasis on those "Jews" is the desperate focus of this thread. One could easily make another thread named "War on Terror = War for Haliburton." How trite.:roll:

Point of interest...I am in no way, fashion, or form a Jew. I'm just intelligent enough to sift through the BS.
 
Last edited:
Re: War on terror = War on Israel

Tashah said:
I wasn't there that fateful day either Timmy... and I can't say for sure what happened either. I did read the entirety of the three Israeli (Knesset/IDF/IDF) investigations, and also the entirety of two US Congressional investigations. All of these investigations concluded that the attack was a tragic mistake. Here are the links to two opposing American viewpoints:

USS Liberty: Cover Up - By James Bamford
Mr. Bamford is the author of 'The Puzzle Palace and Body of Secrets'.

USS Liberty: Israel Did Not Intend to Bomb the Ship - By A. Jay Cristol
Mr. Cristol is the author of 'The Liberty Incident'.



The article on the cover up discusses "Body of Secrets" where he find a US government document in which the US government planned to kill American citizens and US soldiers and then turn around and frame Cuba for it to justify an invasion. This document is very true and their were such plans, but Kennedy refused to approve them. However, again, I can't say with any certainty that their was a cover up. I don't think their was any conspiracy to kill Kennedy and I believe that Oswald was behind it. Don't want you to think I am a conspiracy nut. What I do know, and I can honestly tell you this, was the US government, in order to keep political pressure off of itself to intervene in Bosnia, willfully, knowingly and intentionally covered up the true nature of the massive scale of the genocide in Bosnia from the American people. They outright lied and stated that their was no genocide at times. Deceptive ramblings from Clinton that kept the American people from understanding what was really going on and then actually rewarding and accomodating the evil that committed the genocide, thus in essence, acting as accomplices to the genocide. And with me knowing this, I always have lingering doubts to the official line of governments who I know, will at times, cover up the truth and lie about it. But it's hard for me to say whether their was a cover up in the Liberty. It seems rather unusual that a US Admiral would come out in an article that I saw on Yahoo News and say that the investigation was nothing more than a cover up. He said he was famaliar with the true nature of what happenned and that it was time the American people know the truth. Could this Admiral actually have anti-semtic feelings and his perception is based on that? I don't know.
 
GySgt said:
It's history. One of the biggest problems in the Middle East is that they are living in the past and not a part of the 21st century with the rest of us.

You're right it has been soooooooooo long since they were kicked off their land. They should just accept that their land is not their's at all. After all, that seems fair.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
You're right it has been soooooooooo long since they were kicked off their land. They should just accept that their land is not their's at all. After all, that seems fair.

What's theirs? It's just ****ing land. It would seem to me that a disciple of Gandhi would want the Palestinians to shut up, roll up their sleeves, and work on their civilization rather than bitch, moan, complain, and blame everyone else for what they have done to themselves.

Well, what is fair to you? For the residents of Israel to pack up and find a home in other lands outside of the Middle East so that the Palestinians can move in and Muslims can have a "pure" Muslim region? What's next...allow them to run out every infidel in their area? Get over it.

This is the 21st century. There is no "pure" regions anywhere. They have a choice...get along and play well with others or throw temper tantrums. They have obviously chosen to bitch, blame, destroy, and murder.

You're defending the wrong players. The only religious persecutions going on is from Muslims....as they act like the victims.
 
GySgt said:
What's theirs? It's just ****ing land. It would seem to me that a disciple of Gandhi would want the Palestinians to shut up, roll up their sleeves, and work on their civilization rather than bitch, moan, complain, and blame everyone else for what they have done to themselves.

As a "disciple of Gandhi (I'd prefer admirer)" I think the Palestinians should commit to nonviolence and work for peace.

Well, what is fair to you? For the residents of Israel to pack up and find a home in other lands outside of the Middle East so that the Palestinians can move in and Muslims can have a "pure" Muslim region? What's next...allow them to run out every infidel in their area? Get over it.

Cohabitation is fair. I don't want to see Jews displaced any more than I want to see Muslims displaced.

You're defending the wrong players. The only religious persecutions going on is from Muslims....as they act like the victims.

In the end, they are both.
 
Gandhi>Bush said:
In the end, they are both.


Well, the agressive side is the Palestinians. Israel is constantly retaliating. Hence, if the Palestinians would stop....there would be no retaliations. There would be no violence. Clearly, there is a side here that is more overwhelmingly guilty than the other. Isrealites do not see Muslims as an enemy of God. They are not out to convert or destroy. They do not invade fellow countries. In fact, Muslims walk the same ground as Jews in Israel and enjoy the same democratic freedoms. They are not persecuted. Cohabitation for the west or for Israel is very much the reality. It is the Islamic extremists and their many cheerleaders who want a pure Islamic habitat. The Middle East has millions of these people who need us as an enemy to explain away their own self inflicted problems and it doesn't matter what we do. Peace talks have always come from the west. It was the west that brought Egypt and Israel towards a peace. It was the west that pressured Syria out of Lebanon. It was the west that encouraged Israel to pull out of the Gaza Strip. It is the west that currently gives more foreign financial aid to "Palestine" than any other country, including their fellow Muslim brother states. You are seeing America as this great warmongering country that is continuing aggressions, but you are not realizing that no matter what we do, they are determined to hate us and to practice whatever comes from that hate.

They need to roll up their sleeves and look at themselves in the mirror. I guarantee if the people of the Middle East voiced their willingness to progress into the 21st century, despite their leaderships need to oppress, we would afford them every opportunity. We would help them build a future. We would help them build infrastructure and industry. We would help them build schools and libraries and universities. We would do all of this, because we are doing it in Iraq. We would do this, because our future securities are relying on this civilization's distancing from it's failures.

Now, I'm sure you agree with the second paragraph. Where we differ is the means in which to achieve it. While I believe that peaceful means is the necessary ingredient along with military action for isolated events.....you believe that peaceful means solely will achieve this. The reality of this civilization is that they are engrossed in violence and they are not willing to change without it. I am, of course, addressing the Arab elite, dictators, militants, and extremists - this includes Mullahs. Not so much the millions and millions and millions of Muslims that are just walking around with their trained hate. They would certainly embrace a better life if one was presented to them.
 
Last edited:
GySgt said:
What's theirs? It's just ****ing land.

So let's give the Isrealis Texas in exchange for Judea and the problem is solved.
 
Iriemon said:
So let's give the Isrealis Texas in exchange for Judea and the problem is solved.

If that's where they want to go. I'd rather invite the Israelis then the Palestinians. The Palestinians would just wind up sending extremists across the border, because they want Oklahoma too.
 
GySgt said:
If that's where they want to go. I'd rather invite the Israelis then the Palestinians. The Palestinians would just wind up sending extremists across the border, because they want Oklahoma too.

Why wouldn't the Isrealis want Texas? It's just a piece of land, and a lot bigger than Judea. And, in my personal opinion, the rest of the Union could do just fine without it. :)
 
Iriemon said:
Why wouldn't the Isrealis want Texas? It's just a piece of land, and a lot bigger than Judea. And, in my personal opinion, the rest of the Union could do just fine without it. :)


I'm a Floridian myself, so it makes no difference to me. If the Israelites moved out of the Middle East, this civilization would just find someone else to blame for their self-inflicted wounds.
 
cnredd said:
?...Do you consider the leader of Iran anti-Semetic?

If he is only anti-Israel then I don't consider him anti-semetic .... but he is anti-jewish in general then he is anti-semetic ....
 
The war on terror isn't so much a 'War for Israel' as a 'War because of US support for Israel'. Like it or not the US took sides in this conflict in favour of the Israelis at the expense of the arabs. Why I just don't know. Influential Jews in high places I guess. The US should have been more even handed.
Ironically there are many countries around the world that can legitimately regard the USA as a bigger source of terrorism than Al Queda. In fact the death toll from US state terrorism is higher than from Arab terrorism....

http://www.doublestandards.org/burbach1.html

http://home.iprimus.com.au/korob/fdtcards/Cards_Index.html
 
Last edited:
robin said:
Like it or not the US took sides in this conflict in favour of the Israelis at the expense of the arabs. Why I just don't know
Perhaps because Israel is Westernized and a democracy. Perhaps because the arabs have invaded Israel numerous times. Perhaps because Palestine was a Soviet client. Perhaps because US diplomats were kidnapped and executed. Perhaps because the US grew weary of all the air-hijackings and the Olympic killings. Perhaps because of the Achille Lauro piracy and murder on the high-seas. Perhaps because Arafat made it impossible to do otherwise. Perhaps because Palestine is a sanctuary for the Hamas and Hizb'allah terrorist organizations. Perhaps because Palestine is financially corrupt and has no viable market economy. Perhaps because Palestinians sided with Saddam in the Gulf War. Perhaps because Palestinians celebrated 9/11. Perhaps because of the Karine-A, with its illicit cargo of over 50 tons of smuggled Iranian weapons. Perhaps because just like you, the Palestinians simply gloss over the recent threats of Iran's president.

Jeesh robin, the reasons go on and on and on and...



 
Tashah said:
Perhaps because Israel is Westernized and a democracy. Perhaps because the arabs have invaded Israel numerous times. Perhaps because Palestine was a Soviet client. Perhaps because US diplomats were kidnapped and executed. Perhaps because the US grew weary of all the air-hijackings and the Olympic killings. Perhaps because of the Achille Lauro piracy and murder on the high-seas. Perhaps because Arafat made it impossible to do otherwise. Perhaps because Palestine is a sanctuary for the Hamas and Hizb'allah terrorist organizations. Perhaps because Palestine is financially corrupt and has no viable market economy. Perhaps because Palestinians sided with Saddam in the Gulf War. Perhaps because Palestinians celebrated 9/11. Perhaps because of the Karine-A, with its illicit cargo of over 50 tons of smuggled Iranian weapons. Perhaps because just like you, the Palestinians simply gloss over the recent threats of Iran's president.
Jeesh robin, the reasons go on and on and on and...
How can you invade what was taken from you in the 1st place ?
I would say what you list are the accumulated effects born from US partiality at the outset, not the original causes.
The situation in 1945 could have gone go one way or the other. The West's siding with the Israelis set things heading towards a dichotomy. Thereafter it became a self reinforcing phenomenon. The Arabs become more digruntled as Israel annexed more & more of their land so they fought back so then the israelis become disgruntled so they fought back, so the Arabs become more disgruntled with Israel & her allys so fought back, so then the Israelis become more disgruntled so they fought back more etc etc.
The gain or growth rate of such phenomenon within the system is always high where land disputes are concerned. Land, next to food is thee most important necessity in life.
Wasn't the West bank originally Arab land ?
Lost because the US intervened in the 67 war. Allowed to be kept for some beaurocratic reason.
Alliances grow & thrive where there are conflicts. Unity of purpose between some nations leading to division between others. Alliances & divisions based on a sense of kindred spirit for each other & common purpose & a shared hatred for a common enemy. You mention the Palestinians have no viable economy.
Wouldn't a few $billions of the hundreds of billions the US has spent in the war on terror have been better invested in aid to the Palestinians ?
Marshall aid to the Germans worked after WWII. It avoided the discontent & unemployment & inflation that lead to Hitler rising to power in the 1st place. Aid is cheaper than fighting a war.

I think the Jews have a right to land in the M.East I just wonder if they've taken thing's too far so we see the Palestinian & Arab backlash.... which on the whole is generally reprehensible. Perhaps more Jews should teach Palestinian children & become friends. Fair play to you for doing so.
I've seen in N.Ireland a generation of youngsters tired of conflicts that hark back 300+ years. Now for entertainment they prefer to play on their playstations & other distractions rather than going into the streets & throwing stones at the other side in some tribalistic game. I mention semi seriously... perhaps Israel should consider distributing play stations & PC's to the Palestinian children, but maybe they need better living conditions to start with though.
 
Last edited:
robin said:
I mention semi seriously... perhaps Israel should consider distributing play stations & PC's to the Palestinian children, but maybe they need better living conditions to start with though.
Perhaps if the PA invested a portion of the international funds they recieve into their power grid instead of their wallets, PlayStations and PC's could indeed be donated and distributed.



 
Tashah said:
Perhaps if the PA invested a portion of the international funds they recieve into their power grid instead of their wallets, PlayStations and PC's could indeed be donated and distributed.
[FONTArial] [/FONT]
Sounds like a familiar story. Foreign aid squandered by corrupt tin pot politicians, just as in Africa. So many world bank loans have been written off & it all comes from us, the tax payer :roll:
It shouldn't just be handed over. It should be managed externally to stop it being spent on limos, luxury villas, unnecessary dams & arms, instead of playstations LOL

Re The Iranian president's anti western taunts. Such sabre rattling is a cheap way to rouse support amongst the unthinking masses, the rabble of any society.
Works a treat with Americans also.
I don't think I'm glossing things over when I say, he needs reigning in & probably doesn't represent the views of most of his countrymen anymore than Bush does.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom