War on error

[bub]

This topic is designed to enlighten the opinion of Americans on Islam. I'll ask you to answer quietly, politely, and not to bash anybody.

My aim is to show you Islam is not evil, and it is comparable to Christianity.
This does not mean I'm gonna bash Christianism. No. Roughly, I'll show you you must make a difference between "normal believer" and "extremist".

Why do I do it? Do I know more about Islam than you? No.
But I live in a multiethnic - multicultural city and thus I had the occasion to meet people from different origins.

Ans, as I told Cherokee, I sent an email to a muslim girl I know.

Here is the original email:

salut J.B LOL BEN C DES CONS CES AMERICAINS ALOR FO TJS LEUR EXPLIQUER ....ppffffffffffffffff bon on va l faire Page Ranking la bonne cause alors

1 . Le terrorisme c Page Ranking les gens sans cervelle , Dieu n'a jamais dit que c'est cela qu'il faut pratiquer mais plutôt il Page Rankingône la paix , l'amour d'autrui de ses semblables et des gens qui sont différents . Page Ranking être une solution , non je ne pense pas car la violence engendre la violence .

b. ce sont les islamistes radicaux qui le pratiquent et ce pour la "libération " du monde des paîens selon eux en tout cas et pas les "musulmans" . Biensur que je condamne tout acte terroriste , d'ailleurs il n ' ya pas que les musulmans qui font ce genre de conneries , par exemple l'ETA en espagne , et plein d'autres !

2. Les USA , ahhhhhh que dire ... je n'ai rien de particulier à dire si ce n'est que c'est un pays comme les autres mais ils se prennent trop la tête en pensant qu'ils sont n° " 1" à force de faire les gendarmes du monde ! sinon , à part quelques décervelés comme Bush , les américains sont sympas d'ailleurs j'ai eu la chance d'en cotoyer plusieurs en Belgique , vraiment sympas !

3. Franchement , qu'ils commencent à s'occuper de leurs nombreux problèmes internes avant de s'occuper du reste du monde !! je trouve qu'ils ont bien foutu la merde désolé de le dire mais maintenant qu'ils sen retournent chez eux pour que le nouveau gouvernement puisse former en tt légitimité et non sous pression constante , le peuple veut enfin être tranquille après tant d'années de dictature !



vlaaa bonne traduction J.b

ps : ravie davoir éclairé des millions d'incultes et suiveurs de BUSHHHHHHHHHHHHHH !


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: xxxxxxxxxxxx <xxxx@hotmail.com>
To: xxxxxxxxxxxx@hotmail.com
Subject: un petit service
Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:38:33 +0100
>Salut Annel!
>
>dis, j'ai un petit service que toi seule peut faire:
>
>sur un forum internet américain, il y en a plein qui ont plein de
>Page Rankingéjugés sur les musulmans. Est-ce que tu peux répondre a 2 ou 3
>questions (si ca te dérange pas) et si possible demander a quelques
>aures musulmans que tu connais d'y répondre aussi?
>
>Les questions sont très débiles mais c'est les américains qui ont
>des Page Rankingéjugés monstrueux:
>
>1) Qu'est-ce que tu pense du terrorisme? Est-ce que tu pensee que
>c'est une bonne solution?
>1b) Les musulmans n'ont pas l'air de condamner le terrorisme. Qu'en
>pense tu? Est-ce vrai? Et toi?
>
>2) Qu'est-ce que tu pense des USA en général, des américains?
>
>3) Que pense tu de la politique des USA au moyen Orient?
>
>
>Voila merci bcp
>JB
>
>
>(et ca te dérange si je traduis tes réponses et les poste sur le
>forum?)

The translation now (I put the questions above the answer so that its more clear)

Hi!

On an American forum, there are plenty of people who have strong prejudices about Muslims. Could you answer to 2 or 3 questions (if you don't matter) and if possible, ask other muslims to answer to it too?

The questions are not particularly clever, but they have really strong prejudices so...

1) What do you think of terrorism? Do you think it's a good solution?
Terrorism is for the people who don't have a brain, God has never told we had to do it, he rather speaks about peace, love of the other people, people who may be different. This is not a solution because violence gives birth to violence.

1b) Muslims don't seem to condemn terrorism. What do you think about that? Is it true? And you?
Those are the radical islamists who do it, in order to "free" themselves from the "pagan world", they are not "muslim". Of course, I condemn every act of terrorism, and btw there are people from other religions who do this kind of ****, the ETA in Spain, for example, and many others. (in North Ireland for example)


2) What do you think about the USA and the Americans in general?
The USA aaaaah...what could I say? I've nothing particular to say, excepted that it' s a country like the others, however they should not always think they are always the Nr.1 everywhere! And excepted from some brainwashed guys like Bush, the Americans are sympathic, and I had the luck to meet some of them here in Belgium, they were very nice!


3) What do you think of the US policy in the M/E?
Frankly, they really should care about their own internal problems before taking care of the rest of the world! I'm sorry to say it, but I think they really screwed it up (in Iraq) and they should go home, form a new government and come back with a legitimacy, not with constant violence. The people there (in Iraq I think) really want to have peace, after so many years of dictatorship!

 

[Billo_Really]

Everytime I say the same thing as the answer in question #3, I'm labeled a traitor. I'm a traitor because I said, "You clean your own house before you clean someone else's".

I love your thread, bub. I post comments from Iraqi bloggers to show basically what your trying to do here, which is put a human face on all of this. Maybe if people see that most muslim's are just like you and me, we might not be so quick to exhibit intolerance to things we do not understand.

 

[1069]

I love your thread, bub.

Ditto.
"Enlightening the opinion of Americans on Islam" is a lofty and probably unattainable goal, to be sure; but nevertheless, a worthwhile effort.

 

[Just Me 2]

I agree with every answer that she wrote, including #3. I have many Muslim friends and I never thought the religion = terrorists.

 

[bub]

Cherokee, is it so difficult for you to find this topic?

I understand why you don't find any WMD in Iraq :mrgreen:

 

[cherokee]

This topic is designed to enlighten the opinion of Americans on Islam. I'll ask you to answer quietly, politely, and not to bash anybody.
My aim is to show you Islam is not evil, and it is comparable to Christianity.
This does not mean I'm gonna bash Christianism. No. Roughly, I'll show you you must make a difference between "normal believer" and "extremist".
Why do I do it? Do I know more about Islam than you? No.
But I live in a multiethnic - multicultural city and thus I had the occasion to meet people from different origins.
Ans, as I told Cherokee, I sent an email to a Muslim girl I know.

Tell me why I have the feeling your full of chit over this? Why?

Here is the original email:
The translation now (I put the questions above the answer so that its more clear)

Hi!
On an American forum, there are plenty of people who have strong prejudices about Muslims. Could you answer to 2 or 3 questions (if you don't matter) and if possible, ask other muslims to answer to it too?
The questions are not particularly clever, but they have really strong prejudices so...

That’s funny because on an Islamic boards you’ll find lots of anti American and Jewish posts. What do you make of that?

1) What do you think of terrorism? Do you think it's a good solution?
Terrorism is for the people who don't have a brain, God has never told we had to do it, he rather speaks about peace, love of the other people, people who may be different. This is not a solution because violence gives birth to violence.

And yet they find the justifications in the Koran. They follow the Koran as it was written 1400 years ago. Why do Muslims who speak out against the violence in Islam receive death threats for doing so? Why did close to 200 people world die over a cartoon?

1b) Muslims don't seem to condemn terrorism. What do you think about that? Is it true? And you?
Those are the radical islamists who do it, in order to "free" themselves from the "pagan world", they are not "muslim". Of course, I condemn every act of terrorism, and btw there are people from other religions who do this kind of ****, the ETA in Spain, for example, and many others. (in North Ireland for example)

Hmm its funny you two bring up the IRA and ETA. Almost like you’re the same person. But anyways… Ok here we go.

“Those are the radical islamists who do it, in order to "free" themselves from the "pagan world”

So every one in the world who isn’t a Muslim is a pagan now?.. Gee that’s a nice way of looking down on us NON-Muslims. That’s great you condemn every act of terrorism. I’m proud of you. Now I want to see you in the streets condemning EVERY act of terrorism
I want to see the protest like when someone draws a cartoon.
By the way you said the other groups. Do you know how many Islamic groups are active in the world today?

2) What do you think about the USA and the Americans in general?
The USA aaaaah...what could I say? I've nothing particular to say, excepted that it' s a country like the others, however they should not always think they are always the Nr.1 everywhere! And excepted from some brainwashed guys like Bush, the Americans are sympathic, and I had the luck to meet some of them here in Belgium, they were very nice!

Show me where the US thinks it’s always number 1.

3) What do you think of the US policy in the M/E?
Frankly, they really should care about their own internal problems before taking care of the rest of the world! I'm sorry to say it, but I think they really screwed it up (in Iraq) and they should go home, form a new government and come back with a legitimacy, not with constant violence. The people there (in Iraq I think) really want to have peace, after so many years of dictatorship!

I can agree with that to a point. Iraq is a mess because the Iraqi people would rather knock each other off then rebuild a country of their own. Its turned into nothing less then an Islamic holy war with the sunnia and shia killing each other like it’s a 1400 year old hobby.
If they truly wanted peace 130 innocent people wouldn’t have died yesterday.

 

[cherokee]

Cherokee, is it so difficult for you to find this topic?

I understand why you don't find any WMD in Iraq :mrgreen:

You think you’re being cute but you’re really just being retarded.
If you want to call me out then do so!


Show me a post where I have said anything about the WMD's.
Show me a post where I believed going to Iraq was the right thing to do.

I dare you to son!

 

[Billo_Really]

 

[Voidwar]

Man that Billo fights dirty

Anyway, the point #3 is silly, as if she thinks they want peace she is naive and not worth listening to. The Sunni-Shia Conflict is very real in the Muslim world, how can she not Know about Saddam's Sunni Baathists crappin on Iraqi Shia for the last three decades ?

 

[WI Crippler]

Man that Billo fights dirty

Anyway, the point #3 is silly, as if she thinks they want peace she is naive and not worth listening to. The Sunni-Shia Conflict is very real in the Muslim world, how can she not Know about Saddam's Sunni Baathists crappin on Iraqi Shia for the last three decades ?

No, No, No....Only George Bush is to blame for Islamic Extremism around the world. Why doesn't anybody see this?? :2bigcry:

 

[bub]

Voidwar, as smart as you may be, she is muslim, you are not, so I gives her more credit about what she says of Islam.

For the others, I start again from the beginning.

You say "all the terrorists are muslim. They do it because the Koran says it. We should get rid of the immams. They are violent, just look at the statistics. If they really wanted peace they would stop fighting each others".

Allow me to make a parallel with what happens in your country:

It's as if you said "all the criminals are black/mexican. They do it because rap songs say it. We should get rid of the rappers. They are violent, just look at the statistics. If they wanted not to go to jail they would stop fighting each others".

You see, blacks/mexicans* are not violent because they are black/mexican. They are violent because they are rejected (I overdo a bit, but it's a reality: there are still ghettos in the USA), many live in poverty, are jobless...those ones are desperate and turn to violence, gangs...

The same happens in the M/E, but instead of gangs, they turn to Islam.

You ask me why the Muslims don't protest against extremists, but do you protest against gangs?


(* SOME of them)

 

[cherokee]

Hey bub don’t ever pm me again.
If you have something to say to me say it out in the open.
Are we clear?

 

[bub]

There's nothing secret, post the pm if you want.

Just that there is nothing usefull trying to bash each other, I tried to stop it.

You can keep on bashing the rest of the orld, I do have more interresting things to do.

And explain me why you are so angry. I disagree with you, but I have always tried to show you respect, stay calm, be kind etc...and you always seem irritated when I post something.

 

[WI Crippler]

Voidwar, as smart as you may be, she is muslim, you are not, so I gives her more credit about what she says of Islam.

For the others, I start again from the beginning.

You say "all the terrorists are muslim. They do it because the Koran says it. We should get rid of the immams. They are violent, just look at the statistics. If they really wanted peace they would stop fighting each others".

Allow me to make a parallel with what happens in your country:

It's as if you said "all the criminals are black/mexican. They do it because rap songs say it. We should get rid of the rappers. They are violent, just look at the statistics. If they wanted not to go to jail they would stop fighting each others".

You see, blacks/mexicans* are not violent because they are black/mexican. They are violent because they are rejected (I overdo a bit, but it's a reality: there are still ghettos in the USA), many live in poverty, are jobless...those ones are desperate and turn to violence, gangs...

The same happens in the M/E, but instead of gangs, they turn to Islam.

You ask me why the Muslims don't protest against extremists, but do you protest against gangs?


(* SOME of them)

Tell me, who do you feel is responsible for people who live in poverty, and are jobless??

And I don't recall anybody in this thread stating all terrorists are Muslims. But just because all terrorists aren't Muslims, doesn't mean that we should discount the ones that are.

I think you are projecting the views of the crazy *** right wingers ( like Ptsdkid ) onto all people that disagree with you, so that when you are countered, you can peacefully think that it is just another neo-con that hates all Muslims. You need to look deeper at the problems facing this world in regards to terrorism, and realize that they have existed prior to 9/11/2001.

 

[bub]

:boohoo:

I don't know what to say anymore...

I think you are projecting the views of the crazy *** right wingers ( like Ptsdkid ) onto all people that disagree with you, so that when you are countered, you can peacefully think that it is just another neo-con that hates all Muslims.

Probably you are not wrong :3oops:
I think the same about you and tried to explain my point of view several times but it does not work...

 

[Voidwar]

Voidwar, as smart as you may be, she is muslim, you are not, so I gives her more credit about what she says of Islam.

You make a mistake then. You should not take her word or mine.
You should research the issue for yourself. I have no fear you will find that it is foolish to assert that "the iraqis want peace" when one is informed about the long history of enmity and between the Sunni and Shia populations of "Iraq".

The rest of this has nothing to do with me.

For the others, I start again from the beginning.

You say "all the terrorists are muslim. They do it because the Koran says it. We should get rid of the immams. They are violent, just look at the statistics. If they really wanted peace they would stop fighting each others".

Allow me to make a parallel with what happens in your country:

It's as if you said "all the criminals are black/mexican. They do it because rap songs say it. We should get rid of the rappers. They are violent, just look at the statistics. If they wanted not to go to jail they would stop fighting each others".

You see, blacks/mexicans* are not violent because they are black/mexican. They are violent because they are rejected (I overdo a bit, but it's a reality: there are still ghettos in the USA), many live in poverty, are jobless...those ones are desperate and turn to violence, gangs...

The same happens in the M/E, but instead of gangs, they turn to Islam.

You ask me why the Muslims don't protest against extremists, but do you protest against gangs?

(* SOME of them)

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Voidwar:
You make a mistake then. You should not take her word or mine.
You should research the issue for yourself.

And if her word WAS his research...

 

[Billo_Really]

It is irrational to challenge the basic premise of this thread.

Basic premise:
If you want to know why your sick, you ask a doctor.
If you want to know what it is like playing professional basketball, you ask an NBA player.
If you want to know what it is like in Iraq, you ask an Iraqi.

If this makes too much sense, then you probably don't have any!




And if you're expecting me to be as nice as bub, don't hold your breath!

 

[Voidwar]

And if her word WAS his research...

Then it was poorly done and she failed, like doing a term paper on the moon and talking about it being made of bleu cheese.

It is irrational to challenge the basic premise of this thread.If this makes too much sense, then you probably don't have any!

Basic premise:
If you want to know why your sick, you ask a doctor.
If you want to know what it is like playing professional basketball, you ask an NBA player.
If you want to know what it is like in Iraq, you ask an Iraqi.

Is this just your jealousy at those who are rational and have sense ?

Guess what, dummy, he said shes a Muslim, he never said she's an Iraqi.

Hows that for nice ?

 

[bub]

Is this just your jealousy at those who are rational and have sense ?

Guess what, dummy, he said shes a Muslim, he never said she's an Iraqi.

If it was about Iraq I would have asked to an Iraqi.

But it was about Islam so I asked a Muslim.

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Voidwar:
Then it was poorly done and she failed, like doing a term paper on the moon and talking about it being made of bleu cheese.

Care to define "failure" in the context for which it was presented?

Originally posted by Voidwar:
Is this just your jealousy at those who are rational and have sense ?

Guess what, dummy, he said shes a Muslim, he never said she's an Iraqi.

Hows that for nice ?

Don't get mad at me because you can't handle riddles!

 

[Voidwar]

What we have here . . .

is not a riddle, , ,

But billo's lack of literacy.

Almost every time you try to comment on one of my posts you trip over your own stupid.

It doesn't make me mad, it just makes me hear the Barnum and Bailey's Music.

Cmon, do the thing where you and 18 just like ya get out of the same tiny car, I LOVE that one

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Voidwar:
What we have here . . .

is not a riddle, , ,

But billo's lack of literacy.

Your smokescreen isn't working V-dubya! You didn't answer my question. Is that a cut and run?

Originally posted by Voidwar:
Almost every time you try to comment on one of my posts you trip over your own stupid.

It's stupid[ity]!

Originally posted by Voidwar:
It doesn't make me mad, it just makes me hear the Barnum and Bailey's Music.

It sounds like someone's had a little too much Bailey's!

Originally posted by Voidwar:
Cmon, do the thing where you and 18 just like ya get out of the same tiny car, I LOVE that one

This makes absolutely no sense! Are you trying to be witty, void?

 

[Voidwar]

This makes absolutely no sense!

It makes all the sense in the world, clown.

Doot Doot Doodle Ooodle Loot Doot Dooo Doot,
Doot Doot Doodle Ooodle Loot Doot Dooo Doot,
Doot Doodle Loo Doot, Doot Doodle Loo Doot,
Doodle Loodle Doodle Loodle Doodle Loodle Dooo Doot

 

[Billo_Really]

Originally posted by Voidwar:
It makes all the sense in the world, clown.

Doot Doot Doodle Ooodle Loot Doot Dooo Doot,
Doot Doot Doodle Ooodle Loot Doot Dooo Doot,
Doot Doodle Loo Doot, Doot Doodle Loo Doot,
Doodle Loodle Doodle Loodle Doodle Loodle Dooo Doot

I don't give a doot what you say!