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[W:973] Put a Fork in American Christianity

Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

According to biblical scripture the ONLY way way to salvation is through God the Son.Not God the Father.Not God the Holy Spirit. Clearly three different entities.Jesus doesn't sit own his own right hand in Heaven.He sits on God the Father's right hand.Clearly two different entities. The term Trinity is not to be found in the bible.
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Why the Holy Spirit Is Not a Person

The Bible compares the holy spirit to water. When promising future blessings for his people, God said: “I shall pour out water upon the thirsty one, and trickling streams upon the dry place. I shall pour out my spirit upon your seed, and my blessing upon your descendants.”​—Isaiah 44:3.

When God pours out his spirit upon his servants, they become “full of holy spirit,” or “filled with holy spirit.” Jesus, John the Baptist, Peter, Paul, Barnabas, and the disciples who were gathered together on the day of Pentecost 33 C.E. are all described as being full of, or filled with, holy spirit.​—Luke 1:15; 4:1; Acts 4:8; 9:17; 11:22, 24; 13:9.

Consider this: Could a person be ‘poured out’ on many different individuals? Would you say that one person could ‘fill’ a whole group of people? That defies logic. The Bible does refer to people becoming filled with wisdom, understanding, or even accurate knowledge, but it never describes anyone as being filled with another person.​—Exodus 28:3; 1 Kings 7:14; Luke 2:40; Colossians 1:9.

The Greek word translated “spirit” is pneuʹma, which also conveys the idea of an invisible power. According to Vine’s Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words, the word pneuʹma “primarily denotes the wind . . . also breath; then, especially the spirit, which, like the wind, is invisible, immaterial and powerful.”

Clearly, then, the holy spirit is not a person.
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https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/2009721#h=3
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Dittohead not! said:
Science is neither atheistic, nor is it theistic. Science does not address the question of the existence of god.
Moreover, god can exist without the Bible being taken literally.
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Science does not and cannot scientifically support theological and philosophical opinions about the origin of the universe and of life on earth either.
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

<alt>doxygen said:
Isn't the "spirit of God" supposed to be all around (everywhere)?

I ask because I never read that passage and thought of any sort of duality. So that is a reference to the "Holy Ghost"?
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According to Christian scholars, yes, that is THE Holy Spirit you see in various places even in the OT. Here are some more:

Numbers 24:2
Judges 3:10
Judges 13:25
Judges 14:6
Judges 14:19
Judges 15:14
1 Samuel 10:6
1 Samuel 10:10
1 Samuel 11:6
1 Samuel 16:13
1 Samuel 10:6

And so on...
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Dittohead not! said:
Plants can not live without sunshine.
There are fossilized plants from millions of years ago.
Therefore, the account of creation in the Bible is an allegorical tale, not meant to be taken literally.

Insisting on taking Genesis literally leaves one with the choice of believing in magic, or believing that the Bible is false. If you believe that the creation story is an allegorical tale, only then can you honestly believe that god created the Earth.
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Believing the Bible necessitates believing God worked miracles. Refusing to believe God created the universe forces scorners to put their faith in unscientific silly big bang magic.
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

it's just me said:
Get this through your head - I don't believe what the JW site says and I am not going to bother reading it. If you can't tell me in your own words, forget it.
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Pssst...I did not post it for you to read...did I quote you? No...so get that through your head...
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Elvira said:
Pssst...I did not post it for you to read...did I quote you? No...so get that through your head...
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Psst...this is a public forum. I know you guys don't like questions but if you are going to play lumberjack you have to learn to hold up your end of the log.
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

<alt>doxygen said:
Isn't the "spirit of God" supposed to be all around (everywhere)?

I ask because I never read that passage and thought of any sort of duality. So that is a reference to the "Holy Ghost"?
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This is what Jesus said about the Spirit:

"Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless they are born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Logician Man said:
According to biblical scripture the ONLY way way to salvation is through God the Son.Not God the Father.Not God the Holy Spirit. Clearly three different entities.Jesus doesn't sit own his own right hand in Heaven.He sits on God the Father's right hand.Clearly two different entities. The term Trinity is not to be found in the bible.
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You're in over your head, Pea.
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

No Part of a Trinity

VARIOUS sources acknowledge that the Bible does not support the idea that the holy spirit is the third person of a Trinity. For example:

The Catholic Encyclopedia: “Nowhere in the Old Testament do we find any clear indication of a Third Person.”

Catholic theologian Fortman: “The Jews never regarded the spirit as a person; nor is there any solid evidence that any Old Testament writer held this view. . . . The Holy Spirit is usually presented in the Synoptics [Gospels] and in Acts as a divine force or power.”

The New Catholic Encyclopedia: “The O[ld] T[estament] clearly does not envisage God’s spirit as a person . . . God’s spirit is simply God’s power. If it is sometimes represented as being distinct from God, it is because the breath of Yahweh acts exteriorly.” It also says: “The majority of N[ew] T[estament] texts reveal God’s spirit as something, not someone; this is especially seen in the parallelism between the spirit and the power of God.”—Italics ours.

A Catholic Dictionary: “On the whole, the New Testament, like the Old, speaks of the spirit as a divine energy or power.”

Hence, neither the Jews nor the early Christians viewed the holy spirit as part of a Trinity. That teaching came centuries later. As A Catholic Dictionary notes: “The third Person was asserted at a Council of Alexandria in 362 . . . and finally by the Council of Constantinople of 381”—some three and a half centuries after holy spirit filled the disciples at Pentecost!

No, the holy spirit is not a person and it is not part of a Trinity. The holy spirit is God’s active force that he uses to accomplish his will. It is not equal to God but is always at his disposition and subordinate to him.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1101989306
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

The Greek pneuʹma (spirit) comes from pneʹo, meaning “breathe or blow,” and the Hebrew ruʹach (spirit) is believed to come from a root having the same meaning. Ruʹach and pneuʹma, then, basically mean “breath” but have extended meanings beyond that basic sense. (Compare Hab 2:19; Re 13:15.) They can also mean wind; the vital force in living creatures; one’s spirit; spirit persons, including God and his angelic creatures; and God’s active force, or holy spirit. (Compare Koehler and Baumgartner’s Lexicon in Veteris Testamenti Libros, Leiden, 1958, pp. 877-879; Brown, Driver, and Briggs’ Hebrew and English Lexicon of the Old Testament, 1980, pp. 924-926; Theological Dictionary of the New Testament, edited by G. Friedrich, translated by G. Bromiley, 1971, Vol. VI, pp. 332-451.) All these meanings have something in common: They all refer to that which is invisible to human sight and which gives evidence of force in motion. Such invisible force is capable of producing visible effects.

Another Hebrew word, nesha·mahʹ (Ge 2:7), also means “breath,” but it is more limited in range of meaning than ruʹach. The Greek pno·eʹ seems to have a similar limited sense (Ac 17:25) and was used by the Septuagint translators to render nesha·mahʹ.

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1200004211#h=2
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Elvira said:
Anybody with common sense is over his head...;)
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Certainly the angriest clergy member I've encountered simply because one doesn't agree with his personal beliefs.Even resorts to personal ad homs...tsk tsk
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Logician Man said:
living in your head rent free and lovin' it bisheep :)
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In your dreams. Someone has to answer your heresies, it just happened that I was here when you regurgitated it.
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

it's just me said:
In your dreams. Someone has to answer your heresies, it just happened that I was here when you regurgitated it.
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Not only are you clearly clueless about the the trinity and biblical scripture,you opt to dispense hate rhetoric and ad homs to those who disagree with your personal beliefs,which is also non-biblical.
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Logician Man said:
Not only are you clearly clueless about the the trinity and biblical scripture,you opt to dispense hate rhetoric and ad homs to those who disagree with your personal beliefs,which is also non-biblical.
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I think it's fear, LM...fear of losing members...many of our members have come out of other denominations after they learned that what they taught them was lies...losing members=losing dollars...
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Logician Man said:
Not only are you clearly clueless about the the trinity and biblical scripture,you opt to dispense hate rhetoric and ad homs to those who disagree with your personal beliefs,which is also non-biblical.
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Project much?
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Elvira said:
I think it's fear, LM...fear of losing members...many of our members have come out of other denominations after they learned that what they taught them was lies...losing members=losing dollars...
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I told you, they are too educated for that.
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Moderator's Warning:
Stop with the snide personal comments now, all of you. Stick to the topic or leave the thread.
 
Re: Put a Fork in American Christianity

Dittohead not! said:
A dictator and socialist who freed his nation from colonial rule without firing a shot.

Oh, and Hindu. Not a Christian. I guess he's a lost soul.
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That he did. He was still a dictator and a socialist.
 
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