(W:#941)If Christianity were proven true...

[bomberfox]

I don't know where you get that nonsense from.

You advocated owning another human being as punishment for alleged sins.

 

[bomberfox]

Verse?

Ephesians:
Slaves and Masters
4Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath; instead, bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. 5Slaves, obey your earthly masters withrespect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6And do this not only to please them while they are watching, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.…

Not a single thing. That's why Jesus said what he did. Went right over your head, didn't it?


Nuts. Jesus said love your neighbor and love your enemies. WHAT PART OF THAT ENDORSES SLAVERY, BOMBER??

Ephesians:
Slaves and Masters
4Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath; instead, bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. 5Slaves, obey your earthly masters withrespect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6And do this not only to please them while they are watching, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.…

Old and new testament did nothing to abolish it, it required creative thinking on the part of those who were abolitionists. This was a major part of justifying the peculiar institution.

 

[Ikari]

I'll await, for the moment, on what your proposed punishment would otherwise be for a nation of murderers and those who sacrifice their children to Molech, etc.

Knowing liberal mentality, they'd probably figure out a way to give the butchers a medal.

Slavery is out of the question and it would require proof that such nation did such a thing. I am 100% against anyone owning another human being as property, im sorry you are so immoral that you would advocate owning another human being as property.

Moderator's Warning:

Alright you two, you can go ahead and knock off your baitfest. Quit discussing each other and return to the topic. If y'all want to continue your baiting, take it to the basement.

 

[bomberfox]

I will be happy to move on but my intention was not to bait but push on an assertion that was made. I will rephrase in the future.

 

[Mulefoot]

Just to clarify Bomberfox, that those aren't Jesus' words. Those are Paul's words, who had also issued commands to slave-owners to treat slaves with kindness and justice.

Paul also wrote a letter to Philemon, a slaveowner, telling him that he had met one of Philemon's escaped slaves Onesimus, and Onesimus had converted to Christianity by Paul's ministry. Paul writes from prison to Philemon about the escaped slave Onesimus...….

I am sending him—who is my very heart—back to you. I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary. Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever— no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord.

So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me. I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it back—not to mention that you owe me your very self. I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask.

 

[bomberfox]

Just to clarify Bomberfox, that those aren't Jesus' words. Those are Paul's words, who had also issued commands to slave-owners to treat slaves with kindness and justice.

Paul also wrote a letter to Philemon, a slaveowner, telling him that he had met one of Philemon's escaped slaves Onesimus, and Onesimus had converted to Christianity by Paul's ministry. Paul writes from prison to Philemon about the escaped slave Onesimus...….

I am sending him—who is my very heart—back to you. I would have liked to keep him with me so that he could take your place in helping me while I am in chains for the gospel. But I did not want to do anything without your consent, so that any favor you do would not seem forced but would be voluntary. Perhaps the reason he was separated from you for a little while was that you might have him back forever— no longer as a slave, but better than a slave, as a dear brother. He is very dear to me but even dearer to you, both as a fellow man and as a brother in the Lord.

So if you consider me a partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. If he has done you any wrong or owes you anything, charge it to me. I, Paul, am writing this with my own hand. I will pay it back—not to mention that you owe me your very self. I do wish, brother, that I may have some benefit from you in the Lord; refresh my heart in Christ. Confident of your obedience, I write to you, knowing that you will do even more than I ask.

I think what threw me off was certain versions saying me instead of christ.

If someone was against slavery would they not tell the master to free them and not to obey their earthly masters as you would christ? It seems very contradictory to say anything but let my people go. Telling a master to treat a slave with kindness and justice is not freeing them. There is no universal abolition in the bible which makes it hard to reconcile the bible itself as an abolitionist text if viewed as the inerrant word of god when yaweh clearly commanded the chosen people to buy other people as property that can be passed down through inheritance. Most of the rules that old testament apologists point to are rules for jewish servants, gentiles and pagans had very different rules which clearly denotes that they can be bought as property, not indentured servants. This doesnt seem like the word of a god who never changes his mind.

In order to make this claim we could not take the whole of the biblical canon as written as the inerrant word of god.

I will, however, bookmark this for reference to biblical discussions.

 

[Lursa]

What liberal hogwash!

Such a sad, untrue dismissal of the beautiful Word of God. You should be ashamed!

Brotherly love includes all consideration and love for your fellow man. Family, friends, strangers, companionship, sexual, compassion and good wishes for others.​

​

What is twisted about that? The world would be a better place if people treated others as they'd want to be treated themselves. With love and compassion. God's Word.​

​

How anyone of good conscience and immersed in the warmth of God's Love can be so hateful as to deny His Word is beyond me. But...you do so constantly. People that truly feel God's love dont post so full of hate and threats of Hell as you do.

 

[Lursa]

What do you mean, there's no harm?

Another lie! I hope that you repent your sin of bearing false witness against me...or your own nasty threats will come home to roost.

Brotherly love includes all consideration and love for your fellow man. Family, friends, strangers, companionship, sexual, compassion and good wishes for others. There's no harm here for anyone...it's God's Promise, His Word.​

​

What is twisted about that? The world would be a better place if people treated others as they'd want to be treated themselves. With love and compassion. God's Word.​

How anyone of good conscience and immersed in the warmth of God's Love can be so hateful as to deny His Word is beyond me. But...you do so constantly. People that truly feel God's love dont post so full of hate and threats of Hell as you do.

 

[Lursa]

God's Word includes REPENTANCE (or perish, Luke 13:3). Where's the repentance from today's illicit gay sex crowd for their sexual deviancy??

There's no need to repent for being gay...it harms no one and it does not break God's Word of compassion, peace, forgiveness, and brotherly love.

How does being gay...loving someone...break God's Word?

 

[bomberfox]

Furthermore as ive read certain documents from those that fostered slavery in the antebellum south, there are clear connections that the evangelicals might not want people to see. What the scriptures about obedience and fearing the master.
Slaves and Masters
4Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath; instead, bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. 5Slaves, obey your earthly masters withrespect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6And do this not only to please them while they are watching, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.…

Like this tell me that this scripture is very much akin to what. Charles Colcock Jones intended when he wrote the religious instruction of the negroes in the united states. Charles Colcock Jones had no intention of advocating for abolition, he thought of religious instruction as not only a method of making slaves more docile, but also a system in which the master would bring deliver the slave unto christ. This makes the slave master the conduit for the teachings of christ and the slave has to obey the master, even the cruel ones. See the problem with with this?

If christianity were true, then i would believe there is a god but would still choose damnation.

 

[Mulefoot]

Furthermore as ive read certain documents from those that fostered slavery in the antebellum south, there are clear connections that the evangelicals might not want people to see. What the scriptures about obedience and fearing the master.
Slaves and Masters
4Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath; instead, bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord. 5Slaves, obey your earthly masters withrespect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ. 6And do this not only to please them while they are watching, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.…

Like this tell me that this scripture is very much akin to what. Charles Colcock Jones intended when he wrote the religious instruction of the negroes in the united states. Charles Colcock Jones had no intention of advocating for abolition, he thought of religious instruction as not only a method of making slaves more docile, but also a system in which the master would bring deliver the slave unto christ. This makes the slave master the conduit for the teachings of christ and the slave has to obey the master, even the cruel ones. See the problem with with this?

If christianity were true, then i would believe there is a god but would still choose damnation.

Don't really know what else to say. I mean Christ's primary mission was not to free slaves, remove racism, and make the world a better place. It just wasn't.

 

[it's just me]

Don't really know what else to say. I mean Christ's primary mission was not to free slaves, remove racism, and make the world a better place. It just wasn't.

Christ's primary mission was to bring forgiveness. To YOU, so you could free slaves, remove racism, and make the world a better place.

 

[bomberfox]

There's no need to repent for being gay...it harms no one and it does not break God's Word of compassion, peace, forgiveness, and brotherly love.

How does being gay...loving someone...break God's Word?

Then again in the story of Sodom and Gomorra (sp?) the main crime of the people was that they wanted to rape Lott’s family. Homosexuality just is nowhere comparable.

 

[tosca1]

I go by Jesus' rules...

Rev 21
6 He said to me: “It is done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the Beginning and the End.
To the thirsty I will give water without cost from the spring of the water of life.
7 Those who are victorious will inherit all this, and I will be their God and they will be my children.
8 But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters
and all liars—
they will be consigned to the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.”



Rev 22

Epilogue: Invitation and Warning​

12 “Look, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to each person according to what they have done.
13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

18 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll.
19 And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life
and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.


Now that Jesus tells you.......................you'll try to undo and humbly correct the false teachings - which are LIES - you've been spewing
on this board? You'll humbly admit that indeed, there is an eternal punishment in a place called hell?

Such a sad, untrue dismissal of the beautiful Word of God. You should be ashamed!

Refer to my response to Elora above.

Who do you think Jesus refers to as the "sexually immoral?"
May God help you see the truth, Lursa.

 

[tosca1]

Don't really know what else to say. I mean Christ's primary mission was not to free slaves, remove racism, and make the world a better place. It just wasn't.

Check out my reply to her. #1,367



You're right.
Those you speak off - slavery and racism - are but the result of a world being ruled by Satan.

He didn't die to make this a "better" world BEFORE His Second Coming. The will be a NEW world after!
That He died "to save the world," means He died to save mankind!

This world that we live in now will not get any better! That's not going to happen!
The prophecy will all be fulfilled!

Once a so-called "peace" comes all over the globe - that will be due to the Anti-Christ. That's just a deceptive move.
In fact - this world will even get far worse (which is another sign of His Second Coming)!



John 15:19
If you were of the world, the world would love its own; but because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world,
because of this the world hates you.


1 John 2:15
15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

Romans 12:2
Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.


All these liberal ideas may all sound good and sensible - but what they promote are all DECEPTIVELY against the teachings in the Scriptures!




But that's not saying believers cannot have peace.......................... and, share that peace with others.


Colossians 3:15
15 And let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you were called in one body. And be thankful.

 

[AConcernedCitizen]

What is it about Christianity that would appeal to people to join it? Truly, I'm interested in the selling points, the reasons.

Is it the threat of Hell after death? Or is there something that would truly call to people (that they cant do without being Christian)?

If you can find a Christian buddy, you both get infinite wishes.

“Again, truly I tell you that if two of you on earth agree about anything they ask for, it will be done for them by my Father in heaven." -Matt 18:19

 

[tosca1]

Furthermore as ive read certain documents from those that fostered slavery in the antebellum south, there are clear connections that the evangelicals might not want people to see. What the scriptures about obedience and fearing the master.
Slaves and Masters
4Fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath; instead, bring them up in the discipline and instruction of the Lord.
5Slaves, obey your earthly masters withrespect and fear and sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.
6And do this not only to please them while they are watching, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from your heart.…

You're looking from a different angle.


What was being advised to slaves - obeying their masters - was only practical and sensible at the time.
Slavery was very much woven into that culture. It is more for the benefit of the slaves to obey their masters since disobedience may bring harsh punishments from their masters and law of the time.

It makes it easier for slaves (believers) to be obedient if they equate it to obeying Christ.
It is also a "frame of mind."


I applied that attitude with my previous employer, who is a Christian!
I did my best doing my job because I offered it as a worship to God.
Guess what! I have been given a huge raise, and even a surprise bonus (large sum of money) for my effort!
IT PAYS!


Did you know, masters were also addressed?

Ephesians 6: 5-9
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with fear and trembling, with a sincere heart, as you would Christ, not by the way of eye-service, as people-pleasers, but as servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart, rendering service with a good will as to the Lord and not to man, knowing that whatever good anyone does, this he will receive back from the Lord, whether he is a slave or free.
Masters, do the same to them, and stop your threatening, knowing that he who is both their Master and yours is in heaven,
and that there is no partiality with him.


Colossians 4:1
Masters, treat your slaves justly and fairly, knowing that you also have a Master in heaven.

 

[Logicman]

There's no need to repent for being gay...it harms no one and it does not break God's Word of compassion, peace, forgiveness, and brotherly love.

How does being gay...loving someone...break God's Word?

Love for wickedness is no virture.

Homosexual sin - No harm?

Plenty of harm. First, "gay pride" (two sins). They flaunt it in our faces and try to legitimize it. You don't hear of "adultery pride" parades or "necrophilia pride" parades do you? And is there some compelling reason why the populace in general needs to know how people perform illicit sex acts?

Second, most homosexuals who claim to be Christian try to persuade others it's not a sin, leading many into perdition. We don't want to see even one soul lost.

Third, most homosexuals distort the scriptures in some fashion or another in order to try to justify their sin. The distort who Jesus is (saying he's not God so he never spoke out against gay sex sin); they make lengthy arguments against Leviticus, Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc. Generally, they attack the Word of God and thus attack God himself.

Fourth: Homosexual in is a reproach to individuals and nations and brings God's disfavor and Judgment on men and nations. Read Deuteronomy chapter 28 to see the curses of disobedience.

Fifth, they attack the Sons and Daughters of God when we stand up for the truth of God's Word. They often call us bigots, homophobes, and all manner of vile names because we disagree with their ungodly agenda

Sixth, they push their illicit agenda into every corner of America. Suing the Boy Scouts and anyone else who disagrees with them. They push their gay agenda in elementary schools and elsewhere where it doesn't belong. Nine year old children shouldn't have to hear that Billy's daddy is doing another guy, or that it's ok to do it. They push their agenda in our faces until we're quite sick of it. Again, we don't need to know which way people perform sex acts.

Seventh: (need I go on?) They (and heterosexual sinners) cost taxpayers untold billions in unnecessary health care costs to treat AIDS and other diseases they give to each other. It costs us all money out of our pockets.

And eighth: They refuse to repent of it, and so they will perish and wind up in the Lake of Fire (Luke 13:3; Revelation 21:8).

 

[bomberfox]

Love for wickedness is no virture.

Homosexual sin - No harm?

Plenty of harm. First, "gay pride" (two sins). They flaunt it in our faces and try to legitimize it. You don't hear of "adultery pride" parades or "necrophilia pride" parades do you? And is there some compelling reason why the populace in general needs to know how people perform illicit sex acts?

Second, most homosexuals who claim to be Christian try to persuade others it's not a sin, leading many into perdition. We don't want to see even one soul lost.

Third, most homosexuals distort the scriptures in some fashion or another in order to try to justify their sin. The distort who Jesus is (saying he's not God so he never spoke out against gay sex sin); they make lengthy arguments against Leviticus, Romans 1:26-27, I Corinthians 6:9-10, etc. Generally, they attack the Word of God and thus attack God himself.

Fourth: Homosexual in is a reproach to individuals and nations and brings God's disfavor and Judgment on men and nations. Read Deuteronomy chapter 28 to see the curses of disobedience.

Fifth, they attack the Sons and Daughters of God when we stand up for the truth of God's Word. They often call us bigots, homophobes, and all manner of vile names because we disagree with their ungodly agenda

Sixth, they push their illicit agenda into every corner of America. Suing the Boy Scouts and anyone else who disagrees with them. They push their gay agenda in elementary schools and elsewhere where it doesn't belong. Nine year old children shouldn't have to hear that Billy's daddy is doing another guy, or that it's ok to do it. They push their agenda in our faces until we're quite sick of it. Again, we don't need to know which way people perform sex acts.

Seventh: (need I go on?) They (and heterosexual sinners) cost taxpayers untold billions in unnecessary health care costs to treat AIDS and other diseases they give to each other. It costs us all money out of our pockets.

And eighth: They refuse to repent of it, and so they will perish and wind up in the Lake of Fire (Luke 13:3; Revelation 21:8).

There are no illicit sexual acts being performed. This is why i left christianity. It forbids anyone from seeing the world as it actually is. You cannot bring yourself to have any empathy for someone the buybull tells you to hate. I mean hell it prevents presuppers from ever considering that i could ever be telling the truth about my own disbelief. They gaslight and gaslight and pretend its doing something to help me.

I am glad the world is becoming more secular.

 

[Lursa]

Love for wickedness is no virture.

Homosexual sin - No harm?

TL;dr There's nothing wicked or harmful about truly loving others. If people 'sin' while doing that...like cheating, abusing, flaunting, intentionally inflaming envy, not being responsible with birth control or disease...then those are the sins. Not the loving. Straight married people do all those things too...even spread STDs...that is wrong.

So you are still wrong....nowhere does being gay or having sex outside marriage break God's Word of compassion, brotherly love, forgiveness, and peace.

And (some of) the scriptures 'men' wrote are wrong too...misinterpretations of His Word...intentional or on purpose.

 

[Daisy]

I am glad the world is becoming more secular

lol...you are glad of the mess we live in...SMH...

 

[Daisy]

truly loving others.

Lust is not love...

 

[Lursa]

Lust is not love...

I didnt write anything about lust. However that deep feeling of attraction for the one you love is no sin. It does no harm and it doesnt break God's Word.

If someone allowed themself to let that lust drive them to do harm to another...that would be the sin...the harm done to the other. Do you understand the distinctions? I just made similar for Logicman...I hope it's helpful. If you think I'm wrong, please articulate it in your own words.

 

[Daisy]

I didnt write anything about lust. However that deep feeling of attraction for the one you love is no sin. It does no harm and it doesnt break God's Word.

If someone allowed themself to let that lust drive them to do harm to another...that would be the sin...the harm done to the other. Do you understand the distinctions? I just made similar for Logicman...I hope it's helpful. If you think I'm wrong, please articulate it in your own words.

Of course you're wrong...if your fingers are moving you're wrong...

 

[Lursa]

Of course you're wrong...if your fingers are moving you're wrong...

You just bore false witness against me again. Prove I'm wrong, explain it...all you ever post is "na huh" or misinterpreted scriptures. You dont understand anything enough to use your own words, just recite by rote. God is ashamed of you for such failure to share His Word truthfully and compassionately.