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[W:926]The central evolution problem

Re: The central evolution problem

Good4Nothin said:
If nature is intelligent, then life comes about naturally.
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That's a big if. There is no proof of nature being intelligent, whatever that vague phrase means. And of course if nature is intelligent then why would it require a higher intelligence?
 
Re: The central evolution problem

Good4Nothin said:
The evidence is for evolution. As I said very many times.

Evidence for cells modifying their DNA has been found by James Shapiro. As I already said.
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So you said. however, that is what some religious folks said James Shapiro said with out of context quotes (a technqiue known as 'quote mining', and also, his attacks on neo-darwinism have been shown to be false

https://whyevolutionistrue.wordpres...tinues-his-misguided-attack-on-neo-darwinism/
 
Re: The central evolution problem

zyzygy said:
That's a big if. There is no proof of nature being intelligent, whatever that vague phrase means. And of course if nature is intelligent then why would it require a higher intelligence?
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Get off that anti-theist hobbyhorse long enough and maybe a fresh thought will find you.
 
Re: The central evolution problem

Good4Nothin said:
If nature is intelligent, then life comes about naturally.
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If nature is intelligent, then where is the brain ?


Arguing that nature is intelligent is like watching the movie "The Happening".
 
Re: The central evolution problem

zyzygy said:
That's a big if. There is no proof of nature being intelligent, whatever that vague phrase means. And of course if nature is intelligent then why would it require a higher intelligence?
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Aren't you part of the natural world?
 
Re: The central evolution problem

Rich2018 said:
If nature is intelligent, then where is the brain ?


Arguing that nature is intelligent is like watching the movie "The Happening".
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The brain is where it's always been -- in the mind.
 
Re: The central evolution problem

Rich2018 said:
If nature is intelligent, then where is the brain ?


Arguing that nature is intelligent is like watching the movie "The Happening".
Click to expand...

Is the grass on my lawn intelligent?
 
Re: The central evolution problem

Angel said:
The brain is where it's always been -- in the mind.
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No, the mind is in the brain.


Intelligence - the ability to understand - exists as a function of the brain.

Claiming that every living cell has a form of "intelligence" - that it makes conscious decisions - is just ridiculous.
 
Re: The central evolution problem

RAMOSS said:
So you said. however, that is what some religious folks said James Shapiro said with out of context quotes (a technqiue known as 'quote mining', and also, his attacks on neo-darwinism have been shown to be false...
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You're again committing an association fallacy. Didn't you catch it?
 
Re: The central evolution problem

Rich2018 said:
No, the mind is in the brain.


Intelligence - the ability to understand - exists as a function of the brain.

Claiming that every living cell has a form of "intelligence" - that it makes conscious decisions - is just ridiculous.
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No, the brain is in the mind. That's empiricism. Your view is called dogmatism.
 
Re: The central evolution problem

zyzygy said:
That's a big if. There is no proof of nature being intelligent, whatever that vague phrase means. And of course if nature is intelligent then why would it require a higher intelligence?
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It wouldn't.
 
Re: The central evolution problem

zyzygy said:
What a surprise!
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Coyne's a shill for the dogma you swallow hook, line and sinker. Your surprise is disingenuous. Indeed, it's dogmatic disingenuousness.
 
Re: The central evolution problem

Angel said:
No, the brain is in the mind. That's empiricism. Your view is called dogmatism.
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The mind is consciousness (and sub-consciousness).

It is created by the brain.

When a creature is brain dead...it has no mind.
 
Re: The central evolution problem

Rich2018 said:
The mind is consciousness (and sub-consciousness).

It is created by the brain.

When a creature is brain dead...it has no mind.
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Mind is the first datum in empiricism. It must, therefore, be the last datum. Everything you think you know you know by and through mind. The physical world is an inference from experience, from mind. The brain is in the mind. There's no getting around that if one is an empiricist.
 
Re: The central evolution problem

Angel said:
Mind is the first datum in empiricism. It must, therefore, be the last datum. Everything you think you know you know by and through mind. The physical world is an inference from experience, from mind. The brain is in the mind. There's no getting around that if one is an empiricist.
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No, the brain creates the mind.

You have thoughts because you have a brain.


Cut out your brain and we can keep your body alive...will it have a mind though ?
 
Re: The central evolution problem

RAMOSS said:
Yet, you have not showng you have actually read and actually understood Shapiro, or actually understood why he is just plain wrong.

And then there is

https://sandwalk.blogspot.com/2012/01/mind-of-james-shapiro.html
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From that link.
Shapiro denies that he's a supporter of intelligent design yet he published several papers with Richard Sternberg, one of the darlings of Intelligent Design Creationism. Furthermore, he (Shapiro) uses many of the same anti-evolution arguments used by Intelligent Design Creationists.

This prompted Bill Dembski to accuse James Shapiro of "dancing in the DMZ between Darwin and design"
 
Re: The central evolution problem

zyzygy said:
From that link.
Shapiro denies that he's a supporter of intelligent design yet he published several papers with Richard Sternberg, one of the darlings of Intelligent Design Creationism. Furthermore, he (Shapiro) uses many of the same anti-evolution arguments used by Intelligent Design Creationists.

This prompted Bill Dembski to accuse James Shapiro of "dancing in the DMZ between Darwin and design"
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Shapiro has NEVER argued against evolution. What he criticizes is dogmatic neo-Darwinism, which is obviously an outdated theory.
 
Re: The central evolution problem

Rich2018 said:
The mind is consciousness (and sub-consciousness).

It is created by the brain.

When a creature is brain dead...it has no mind.
Click to expand...

You have no way of knowing that. When a creature is brain dead it can't communicate.
 
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