[W:836] How Can We Be Sure the Bible Is True?

[cabse5]

Assume that I do live in Africa. If, during my entire life, I never saw a giraffe in my backyard or any evidence that one was ever there, do I need "faith" not to believe a claim that one is there at any given moment?

An atheist, like yourself, would say there ain't giraffes 'cause you hadn't seen any.

 

[Integrityrespec]

I mean what can one really expect from people who lived some two thousand years ago. That so many people today buy into a collection
of mostly supernatural scribbling called the Bible blows me away. However, if being a believer is your thing ..go for it. Just don't tell me
I should do the same as I am an Agnostic through and through.

The nice thing about Christianity and the Bible is you have freedom of choice to believe or not. You make your choice and you live with the consequences of it. Doesn't mean christians will not prayer for you and hope you come to believe.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Sheol/Hades/hell is the grave, nothing more...

Gehenna/lake of fire is symbolic of eternal destruction, nothing more...we know it be symbolic because the grave/hell and death will also be thrown into the lake of fire or Gehenna...these things cannot literally burn, they will be destroyed forever, just as anyone who's thrown into the lake for fire will be destroyed forever......

So you now go beyond the text and take it upon yourself to tell us it is symbolic and not a literal place name.

Furthermore Rev does not use the term Gehenna - the Greek for the text you cite is as follows:



Do you see any Greek term γέενναν in that passage? No.

So you are mistaken and this is because you have not been careful, you have been trained like a pet by the cult that I warned you about.

You believe what others have told you even that Rev 20:14 contains the word Gehenna which it does not - that is a lie.

The text, miraculously preserved for centuries is far too important, you should not trust the words of men over what is written.

 

[Noodlegawd]

An atheist, like yourself, would say there ain't giraffes 'cause you hadn't seen any.

Nope, try again.

 

[cabse5]

You are welcome to show otherwise. I doubt that you can.

Do you have doubts about the theory of relativity, for example? I mean, when was the last time anyone travelled at a speed approaching the speed of light?

 

[beancounter]

There are numerous sources available that show many of the biblical stories were borrowed from other earlier cultures.

That alone should provide a good foundation for doubting the truth of the bible.

The bible's authors were essentially plagiarizers.

 

[devildavid]

'Cause it's a belief.

Not believing is not a belief. If something requires belief, there are two choices. Believe or not believe. Not believing is not a belief, only believing something can be called a belief. If you think voodoo power exists, you have a belief in it. If you don't think it exists, that is not considered a belief. Everything that people do not believe in are not considered beliefs, only the things that they believe in. So according to you, you have beliefs in everything that you don't believe in. You equate not believing with believing. Total illogic.

 

[devildavid]

You disagree? you claim the passage is not present?

I'm lying when I paste this?

View attachment 67309960

I'm not asking you what you think it means but asking is that text present?

You only believe you pasted something in your post. Your reality is just your perception. You posted nothing at all.

 

[cabse5]

There are numerous sources available that show many of the biblical stories were borrowed from other earlier cultures.

That alone should provide a good foundation for doubting the truth of the bible.

The bible's authors were essentially plagiarizers.

The ideas behind The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence were plagiarized...I suppose The Constitution and the Declaration of Independence deserves the same fate as The Bible.

 

[devildavid]

There is no burning hell...

And no Satan and no god...

 

[cabse5]

Not believing is not a belief. If something requires belief, there are two choices. Believe or not believe. Not believing is not a belief, only believing something can be called a belief. If you think voodoo power exists, you have a belief in it. If you don't think it exists, that is not considered a belief. Everything that people do not believe in are not considered beliefs, only the things that they believe in. So according to you, you have beliefs in everything that you don't believe in. You equate not believing with believing. Total illogic.

Yeah. Keep telling yourself that atheism isn't a belief....It seems to have worked!

 

[Daisy]

So you know go beyond the text and take it upon yourself to tell us it is symbolic and not a literal place name.

Furthermore Rev does not use the term Gehenna - the Greek for the text you cite is as follows:

View attachment 67309962

Do you see any Greek term γέενναν in that passage? No.

So you are mistaken and this is because you have not been careful, you have been trained like a pet by the cult.

Jesus used Gehenna because he knew his listeners would understand that the fire burns continuously so it destroys anything thrown into it...in the Scriptures fiery torment is associated with destruction and death...in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the word for torment, basanos, is used several times in reference to punishment by death....Ezekiel 3:20; 32:24,30...

Consider how the angels explain the meaning of the torment in Revelation 18:21...destruction...

“Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.”

Ask yourself...why is Hades thrown in the lake of fire if it is fire itself? Because it's not, it is the grave, death and the grave will be destroyed forever...

 

[devildavid]

The term "believe" literally means "regard it as true that" - try it, take any sentence that contains "believe" and substitute it - you'll see it has no effect on the meaning.

So "not believe" literally means "not regard it as true that".

Now if the thing in question can only be either TRUE or FALSE then to "not regard is as true that" is no different to "regard it as not true that" which is no different to "regard is as false that".

Therefore to say "I do not believe God exists" is the same as saying "I believe God does not exist".

I mean, come on - if you believe some statement is false then how does that differ from believing it is not true?

Yeah. Keep telling yourself that.

Do you have a belief in voodoo?

 

[devildavid]

I claim that it is a mistake of reasoning to insist that one's perceptions are reality rather than the consequence of something else that is realty.

And so what makes you sure you are not making a mistake in what you perceive as reasoning?

 

[devildavid]

Jesus used Gehenna because he knew his listeners would understand that the fire burns continuously so it destroys anything thrown into it...in the Scriptures fiery torment is associated with destruction and death...in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the word for torment, basanos, is used several times in reference to punishment by death....Ezekiel 3:20; 32:24,30...

Consider how the angels explain the meaning of the torment in Revelation 18:21...destruction...

“Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.”

Ask yourself...why is Hades thrown in the lake of fire if it is fire itself? Because it's not, it is the grave, death and the grave will be destroyed forever...

How do you know why Jesus did something? Did he tell you? Or can you read the mind of a story book character?

 

[cabse5]

Do you have a belief in voodoo?

I don't know...I have read about folks who seem to act like zombies which seems to be a cornerstone of voodoo.

 

[devildavid]

I don't know...I have read about folks who seem to act like zombies which seems to be a cornerstone of voodoo.

So you can say I don't know to avoid commitment. I'll say the same about the idea of god. I don't know. I have read about gods and beliefs and it seems to be a cornerstone of many religions. Not sure what it is all about. No beliefs one way of the other.

 

[cabse5]

How do you know why Jesus did something? Did he tell you? Or can you read the mind of a story book character?

Jesus as a story book character. You're really going over the deep end in your atheistic 'zealotry'.
There are independent accounts of Jesus (and his brother) in Roman literature, for example.

 

[cabse5]

So you can say I don't know to avoid commitment. I'll say the same about the idea of god. I don't know. I have read about gods and beliefs and it seems to be a cornerstone of many religions. Not sure what it is all about. No beliefs one way of the other.

Say that you don't know. 'CAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW. What compels you to forsake God(s)?

 

[devildavid]

Story book character. You're really going over the deep end in your atheistic 'zealotry'.
There are separate accounts of Jesus (and his brother) in Roman literature, for example.

Nothing inaccurate about what I said. There are no other accounts of the Jesus character from the bible.

 

[devildavid]

Say that you don't know. 'CAUSE YOU DON'T KNOW. What compels you to forsake God(s)?

No, I am unsure of what the god talk is all about. How can I forsake something that I am unsure about?

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Not believing is not a belief. If something requires belief, there are two choices. Believe or not believe. Not believing is not a belief, only believing something can be called a belief. If you think voodoo power exists, you have a belief in it. If you don't think it exists, that is not considered a belief. Everything that people do not believe in are not considered beliefs, only the things that they believe in. So according to you, you have beliefs in everything that you don't believe in. You equate not believing with believing. Total illogic.

David carefully consider these two assertions A: "I do not believe X is true" and B: "I do believe X is false".

Can you give an example of when A is true and B is false or when A is false and B is true?

You cannot because these are logically identical, they always means the same thing at all times, we can never have a situation where one is the case yet the other is not the case - therefore this is proof that they really are logically identical.

 

[devildavid]

David carefully consider these two assertions A: "I do not believe X is true" and B: "I do believe X is false".

Can you give an example of when A is true and B is false or when A is false and B is true?

You cannot because these are logically identical, they always means the same thing at all times, we can never have a situation where one is the case yet the other is not the case - therefore this is proof that they really are logically identical.

That depends on what X is.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

Jesus used Gehenna because he knew his listeners would understand that the fire burns continuously so it destroys anything thrown into it...in the Scriptures fiery torment is associated with destruction and death...in the Greek Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures the word for torment, basanos, is used several times in reference to punishment by death....Ezekiel 3:20; 32:24,30...

Consider how the angels explain the meaning of the torment in Revelation 18:21...destruction...

“Thus with a swift pitch will Babylon the great city be hurled down, and she will never be found again.”

Ask yourself...why is Hades thrown in the lake of fire if it is fire itself? Because it's not, it is the grave, death and the grave will be destroyed forever...

You claimed that the Rev used the term Gehenna - it does not.

 

[Sherlock Holmes]

That depends on what X is.

Any predicate.