[W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

[Athanasius68]

You did notice that Obama never went in public asking our allies to come forward with information against Romney or McCain, right?

Trump asked an adversary to do it against Clinton, and is open that he is okay with that in future elections too.

Apples to Oranges...

Did you also notice that the Obama Admin never complained that our allies were interfering in our election? I

 

[pamak]

So why doesnt this apply to Trump finding info about his 2020 opponent?

I gave you a scenario in which one can talk about a dereliction of duty in 2020. As I said, if there is some Chinese hacking affecting the Trump Campaign and there are multiple sources showing links between Democrat associates and Chinese, that could be one such scenario. But without any such indicators, just having the president asking rivals to provide information for rivalries is pathetic and lame.
Supposedly we are in an economic war with China. If the idea is that the Chinese can get some influence and perhaps a better deal by bringing presents to Trump in the form of goodies against democratic candidates, this is not something that I would want to encourage, Would you?

 

[pamak]

Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

Where was PapaD drunk and shooting his mouth of to Downer? It wasnt in Australia.

He said to to a Ausiralian official. Sometimes when people are drunk, they reveal secrets which are true

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

Now you repeat your illogical claims to which I have already answered and explained why the Clinton campaign did not do the same thing. I even told you that the Clinton campaign did NOT use the Steele dossier BEFORE the election when it most needed it when Clinton was under the pressure of the reopening of the investigation about her emails.

Your answer then showed the illogical nature of your claims when you tried to explain Clitnton's behavior by arguing that she knew she would win. And I answered back that such scenario, as you describe it, is nuts because on the one hand you argue that Clinton made a decision to contact foreigners (which shows that she despite her allege confidence about her win, she valued such contacts) and on the other hand you argue that when she supposedly got the information from Steele, and at a time when she had many more reasons to feel insecure about her win (FBI reopening of the investigation), she decided not to use such information. And notice by the way, that the Obama administration also did not leak such information (Steele Dossier) before the election. You never tried to explain this contradiction of your beliefs.You simply decided to wait for a couple of posts, and then return back with the same theory of yours which makes zero sense.

In short, neither Obama nor Clinton used any information from any foreign source to influence an election. Trump on the other hand, invited openly foreigners to find information against his rivals during elections. He did it with Clinton and his speech calling Russia, and he clearly reveals that he will do it again against whatever candidate the Democrats will nominate

Look at the hairsplitting here.
BTW- should a president REJECT foreign information about a candidate, even if that information comes from an ally?

 

[pamak]

Did you also notice that the Obama Admin never complained that our allies were interfering in our election? I

If you see such intervention (sharing information about a possible Russian attempt to offer help to a Trump associate as a bad thing, I disagree! It was the expected intervention of a good ally!

 

[pamak]

Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

Look at the hairsplitting here.
BTW- should a president REJECT foreign information about a candidate, even if that information comes from an ally?

It is not hair splitting. You just insult my intelligence with your nonsense and logical contradictions and when I point them you cry "hair splitting"!

See previous recent posts for the proper answers to your questions!

I just addressed your claim that somehow Clinton and Obama used information from foreign governments during the election to gai some advantage over Trump. This is false, and I explained why it is false in my recent posts!

 

[Athanasius68]

I gave you a scenario in which one can talk about a dereliction of duty in 2020. As I said, if there is some Chinese hacking affecting the Trump Campaign and there are multiple sources showing links between Democrat associates and Chinese, that could be one such scenario. But without any such indicators, just having the president asking rivals to provide information for rivalries is pathetic and lame.
Supposedly we are in an economic war with China. If the idea is that the Chinese can get some influence and perhaps a better deal by bringing presents to Trump in the form of goodies against democratic candidates, this is not something that I would want to encourage, Would you?

We established earlier that even information from our allies may have ulterior motives.
Trump has said that if he received info from Norway, he might use it.
The scare scenarios are illogical since its the Democrats, not the Republicans, who used foreign info in 2016 against their political opponent.

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

It is not hair splitting. You just insult my intelligence with your nonsense and logical contradictions and when I point them you cry "hair splitting"!

See previous recent posts for the proper answers to your questions!

I just addressed your claim that somehow Clinton and Obama used information from foreign governments during the election to gai some advantage over Trump. This is false, and I explained why it is false in my recent posts!

We just spent the last two years in national crisis as some serious people thought the president was an agent of Russia at worse. Now we are going to say this wasn't political? Please.

 

[Athanasius68]

If you see such intervention (sharing information about a possible Russian attempt to offer help to a Trump associate as a bad thing, I disagree! It was the expected intervention of a good ally!

Then what's the outrage when Trump says THE SAME THING?

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

He said to to a Ausiralian official. Sometimes when people are drunk, they reveal secrets which are true

OK-- so it's okay to accept leaked information from foreigners in a foreign country?

 

[pamak]

We established earlier that even information from our allies may have ulterior motives.
Trump has said that if he received info from Norway, he might use it.
The scare scenarios are illogical since its the Democrats, not the Republicans, who used foreign info in 2016 against their political opponent.

But allies motives are different from the motives of the adversary and cannot put all motives in the same position. Trump has ZERO justification to say such things now and in public. The only reason one would want to say such things is because he wants to gain some advantage from possible information coming from foreign governments during the next election. And yes, even our allies can be threatened by tariffs. So, when one tries to create conditions of bargaining information about political opponents for electoral purpose, he is corrupting the US democracy.

 

[pamak]

Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

OK-- so it's okay to accept leaked information from foreigners in a foreign country?

It was okay for Steel to do it and for the FBI to accept such information since Steele was not just a random guy. He had cooperated in the past with US agencies and had a good reputation.

 

[pamak]

Then what's the outrage when Trump says THE SAME THING?

It is the intention behind saying such things in public right now since they turn on the green light of bargaining with foreign governments for information about Trump's political opponents. There is no valid justification for saying such things.

 

[Athanasius68]

But allies motives are different from the motives of the adversary and cannot put all motives in the same position. Trump has ZERO justification to say such things now and in public. The only reason one would want to say such things is because he wants to gain some advantage from possible information coming from foreign governments during the next election. And yes, even our allies can be threatened by tariffs. So, when one tries to create conditions of bargaining information about political opponents for electoral purpose, he is corrupting the US democracy.

Yes-- motives are different. Which is why many have wondered why the Obama Admin treated info they received from Russian sources no different than had they received it from Norway.

 

[Athanasius68]

It is the intention behind saying such things in public right now since they turn on the green light of bargaining with foreign governments for information about Trump's political opponents. There is no valid justification for saying such things.

He was asked a question. I thought we established elsewhere we would want our allies to send us information they might have about presidential candidates.

 

[Athanasius68]

Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

It was okay for Steel to do it and for the FBI to accept such information since Steele was not just a random guy. He had cooperated in the past with US agencies and had a good reputation.

Aside from the problem that Steele was not a source-- he transmitted information-- why would it be wrong for Trump to receive information in a similar manner?

 

[pamak]

Yes-- motives are different. Which is why many have wondered why the Obama Admin treated info they received from Russian sources no different than had they received it from Norway.

Do not play with words because it seems that you want confuse the fact that it was not Obama who decided how information should be treated. It was the Intelligence and the FBI directors! By contrast, Trump now tells us that if HE receives information from foreign governments, he may nor call the FBI. In other words, you try to compare again apples to oranges! The fact that he says such things, shows clearly that he is more interested in personal unethical gains than in protecting the country,

Keep spending your time defending him!

 

[pamak]

Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

Aside from the problem that Steele was not a source-- he transmitted information-- why would it be wrong for Trump to receive information in a similar manner?

But the person who transmits such information is important too in how to treat the received information. If a crook tries to transmit such information, he will be treated differently and for good reasons even if his sources are exactly the same. Also, the fact that Steele did not know the identity of all sources which originated information that third people gave to him, does not mean that he did not know all sources or that he did not know the information of people who talked to him.

 

[pamak]

He was asked a question. I thought we established elsewhere we would want our allies to send us information they might have about presidential candidates.

He also said that he may not contact the FBI in a case of receiving information from a foreign source. THIS by itself, should be the end of the conversation comparing Obama to Trump or comparing a presidential attitude in handling received information to protect the country to the attitude of a political scum which is only interested in personal political gains.

Trump: I Would Accept Information On My Opponent From Foreign Governments, "It's Called Oppo Research" | Video | RealClearPolitics


President Donald Trump said he would accept information from a foreign government or foreign nationals that would help him in the 2020 presidential election and not notify the FBI in an Oval Office interview with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos.

 

[iguanaman]

Re: [W:775]Trump: ‘I think I’d take’ damaging info on 2020 rival from foreign operatives

And both Steele and his informants are beacons of truth because why?

Oh, yeah, the NARRATIVE. :lamo

Steele had a long career with MI6 and his moles in Russia were an asset for this task. Also it is unlikely that he would risk his reputation on a fake story. It is clear he believed that Trump was a danger to America and its allies. You can't argue with that.

 

[iguanaman]

I don't doubt that Congresspeople suspected Trump of collusion; even some of his Republican colleagues expressed some fears. The question is whether or not the fears were justified.

Nope, just dissing the FBI is not treason anywhere.

He made secret efforts to remove Russian sanctions that is why the bill stopping him was passed with a veto proof majority.
He did not just "diss" the FBI, he sided with Putin over all our intelligence services and those of our allies who also monitored Trump cohorts contacts with known Russian agents. You think that was admirable and behavior befitting our President?

 

[Athanasius68]

Do not play with words because it seems that you want confuse the fact that it was not Obama who decided how information should be treated. It was the Intelligence and the FBI directors! By contrast, Trump now tells us that if HE receives information from foreign governments, he may nor call the FBI. In other words, you try to compare again apples to oranges! The fact that he says such things, shows clearly that he is more interested in personal unethical gains than in protecting the country,

Keep spending your time defending him!

The intelligence agencies are not free agents. They under the supervision and direction of the President. The president is responsible for their actions.
So Trump is correct: if he directs those agencies to use such information, is used. He he bars or, they are not.

 

[Athanasius68]

He also said that he may not contact the FBI in a case of receiving information from a foreign source. THIS by itself, should be the end of the conversation comparing Obama to Trump or comparing a presidential attitude in handling received information to protect the country to the attitude of a political scum which is only interested in personal political gains.

Trump: I Would Accept Information On My Opponent From Foreign Governments, "It's Called Oppo Research" | Video | RealClearPolitics


President Donald Trump said he would accept information from a foreign government or foreign nationals that would help him in the 2020 presidential election and not notify the FBI in an Oval Office interview with ABC News' George Stephanopoulos.

Who is it do you think would investigate foreign information?

 

[pamak]

The intelligence agencies are not free agents. They under the supervision and direction of the President. The president is responsible for their actions.
So Trump is correct: if he directs those agencies to use such information, is used. He he bars or, they are not.

In a functional democracy, the president receives information from the FBI.

If your type of democracy is one where the president plays the intelligence gatherer in secret meetings with adversaries or allies and decides which information should share with the FBI or not, then you move farther and farther away from the model of a functional democracy which is not surprising since you show a remarkable commitment in this thread to defend any BS you hear from Trump!

 

[pamak]

Who is it do you think would investigate foreign information?

Those who have the expertise to do so. It is not the president who will do the actual investigation. The fact that Trump pretends that he would be interested in doing such "investigation" on his own without informing the FBI shows that he is actually more interested in cutting deals with foreigners for political gain. .