[W:718] The west must hold its nerve on Ukraine

[Rogue Valley]

The way I see it if the NATO alliance ever had designs on attacking Russia it would have done so back in the mid 90s when it was economically and militarily at its weakest.

All the Russian pretexts about threats from NATO expansion are just pure paranoid BS inhabiting the mind and feeding the hubris of one man frankly

I agree. But I also think your doom-and-gloom predictions regarding Ukraine are unwarranted.

 

[flogger]

Journalists are seeing the carnage and are reporting on it .

And there was no "Ukranian military junta". That is pure stupid talk.

There was no invasion by Ukraine. Donbass is Ukraine territory. You don't "invade" your own country. That is stupid talk.

Now you speak of intent to murder all of Donbass' population. That is more stupid talk

Thanks you saved me the trouble

 

[Rogue Valley]

Thats the problem . You are witnessing nothing. YOu are sitting in your cozy warm office and reading Ukraniane fake testimonies, while Ukranian cannon fodder guys are dying on the field, defending your Western interests in their country (Hugo Biden capitals, and etc... ).
No ONE has initiated any invasion except Ukranian military junta , which illegally seized powere in 2014 and then INVADED Donbass. Thats when that war of Ukranian nationalists against their own people started. In 2022 there was an escalation after Ukraine junta amassed 65000 thousand army to invade Donbass and murder ALL its population.

A nation cannot invade itself. Are Russian schools really this backward?

Russia invaded Crimea and Donbas in 2014.....

Putin admits to Russian military involvement in Donbas

It is possibly no coincidence that the admission follows what seems like a major campaign to convince the West that we’re on the brink of world war and an extremely obvious attempt via Vladimir Zhirinovsky to link peace with a victory in the US elections by Donald Trump

khpg.org

...and again invaded Ukraine in February 2022 seeking to steal more territory.....

Russia declares expanded war goals beyond Ukraine's Donbas

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday that Moscow's military "tasks" in Ukraine now went beyond the eastern Donbas region, in the clearest acknowledgment yet that it has expanded its war goals.

www.reuters.com

 

[dandolo2k]

A nation cannot invade itself. Are Russian schools really this backward?

Russia invaded Crimea and Donbas in 2014.....

Putin admits to Russian military involvement in Donbas

It is possibly no coincidence that the admission follows what seems like a major campaign to convince the West that we’re on the brink of world war and an extremely obvious attempt via Vladimir Zhirinovsky to link peace with a victory in the US elections by Donald Trump

khpg.org

...and again invaded Ukraine in February 2022 seeking to steal more territory.....

Russia declares expanded war goals beyond Ukraine's Donbas

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said on Wednesday that Moscow's military "tasks" in Ukraine now went beyond the eastern Donbas region, in the clearest acknowledgment yet that it has expanded its war goals.

www.reuters.com

The problem is That the gang of Zelensky does not represent the “nation” . It’s is criminal junta that declared itself “government” in 2014, and since 2014 they fabricate fake elections .
Donbas and Crimea are traditional Russian lands ,so when you say Russia has invaded Crimea that means Russia has invaded itself however you state that this is impossible .
It has not invaded Ukraine in 2022 , because it just provided the military assistance to Donbas republics which have absolutely the same right to break from the Ukraine as Ukraine had the right to break from USSR .

 

[Fledermaus]

The problem is That the gang of Zelensky does not represent the “nation”

That is lie #1. Zelensky is the elected president of Ukraine.

. It’s is criminal junta that declared itself “government” in 2014,

That is lie #2

and since 2014 they fabricate fake elections .

Lie #3

Donbas and Crimea are traditional Russian lands

So what? Russia/USSR ceded them to Ukraine.

,so when you say Russia has invaded Crimea that means Russia has invaded itself however you state that this is impossible .

Another lie. Both Crimea and Donbass are Ukraine territory.

It has not invaded Ukraine in 2022 ,

Another lie.

because it just provided the military assistance to Donbas republics

And another lie. Russia tried to take Kyiv and failed.

which have absolutely the same right to break from the Ukraine as Ukraine had the right to break from USSR .

The break with the USSR/Russia were by mutual agreement.

Are you paid by the lie?

 

[Rogue Valley]

The problem is That the gang of Zelensky does not represent the “nation” .

Your propaganda does not work here Russian. Data from the 2019 presidential election.....

And the election was monitored by the 57 member OSCE of which Russia is a member.

Why do you suppose it is that the Kremlin does not allow international monitors for Russian elections?

 

[dandolo2k]

Your propaganda does not work here Russian. Data from the 2019 presidential election.....

And the election was monitored by the 57 member OSCE of which Russia is a member.

Why do you suppose it is that the Kremlin does not allow international monitors for Russian elections?

Whats the use in this Map ? YOu can draw many other maps in Photoshop , it does not confirm that the elections were fair. I dont understand how people in Ukraine once elected Yanukich , and then , all out of a sudden changed their minds. Besides you know how many bulling was from Ukranian nationalists, how the people were afraid of their lives and how ever can be elections fair in such circumstances.
>> Your propaganda does not work here Russian. Data from the 2019 presidential election.....
Well your Western propaganda does not work in Russia, in China and in half of the world, so what's next ? Will you go to war with this half of the world?
If you are not able to convice me with your false election maps , supplied to you by Ukranian propaganda machine, which in turn is financed directly by US governement, why do you think you will be able to sell your fake bullshit to the rest of the World ?

 

[dandolo2k]

break with the USSR/Russia were by mutual agreement.

Are you paid by the lie?

As I already told you I havent voted for this agreement, nor the ordinary Ukranians have ever approved this agreement in any referendum. So all such agreements, signed by drunken morons, having no powere to do this, are ILLEGAL. Period.
You should understand one simple thing. There arent that many Ukranians in Ukraniane as you imagine or want to believe. Most of them are ethnic Russians! And all these Russian speaking residents , along with most of other Ukranians , simply DO NOT WANT YOU , Americans. They dont want you bloody american type of "democracy", they dont need and want your weapons, you bioLabs, developing slavic kiling viruses (may be you Americans will be happy to have such labs on your soil, but we , Russians, Ukranians are NOT! ) your low quality goods, your clumsy and boring Western porpaganda.
And the wisiest think you can do to help Ukraine is: Get out of Ukraine! Take your weapons , take you diplomats (Victoria Nooland with a company), take you generals and go AWAY! Go back to your country and engage in solution of your own problems!
And you will to favour by this departure to everybody, to the whole world !

 

[Fledermaus]

Whats the use in this Map ? YOu can draw many other maps in Photoshop , it does not confirm that the elections were fair. I dont understand how people in Ukraine once elected Yanukich , and then , all out of a sudden changed their minds. Besides you know how many bulling was from Ukranian nationalists, how the people were afraid of their lives and how ever can be elections fair in such circumstances.
>> Your propaganda does not work here Russian. Data from the 2019 presidential election.....
Well your Western propaganda does not work in Russia, in China and in half of the world, so what's next ? Will you go to war with this half of the world?
If you are not able to convice me with your false election maps , supplied to you by Ukranian propaganda machine, which in turn is financed directly by US governement, why do you think you will be able to sell your fake bullshit to the rest of the World ?

It isn't photo shopped.

Stop saying stupid things.

Yanukovich was elected. Then he turned his back on agreements the he promised to adhere to. The people rose up. He ran.

As I already told you I havent voted for this agreement, nor the ordinary Ukranians have ever approved this agreement in any referendum.

So what? You are irrelevant to the issue.

So all such agreements, signed by drunken morons, having no powere to do this, are ILLEGAL. Period.

A stupid statement given the agreement is the law.

You should understand one simple thing. There arent that many Ukranians in Ukraniane as you imagine or want to believe.

If they are citizens of Ukraine they are Ukrainian citizens.

Most of them are ethnic Russians!

Moved in by Stalin to repopulate the areas stripped of Ukrainians by the USSR.

And all these Russian speaking residents , along with most of other Ukranians , simply DO NOT WANT YOU , Americans.

Irrelevant. Ukraine is fighting the war. All America does is provide weapons with which to fight the Russian rape and pillage army.

They dont want you bloody american type of "democracy", they dont need and want your weapons, you bioLabs, developing slavic kiling viruses (may be you Americans will be happy to have such labs on your soil, but we , Russians, Ukranians are NOT! ) your low quality goods, your clumsy and boring Western porpaganda.

They already have a democracy. They want our weapons. And WTF are you babbling about a "slavic kiling viruses"?

And "low quality goods"? Like the Lada and all the fine Russian goods?

And the wisiest think you can do to help Ukraine is: Get out of Ukraine! Take your weapons , take you diplomats (Victoria Nooland with a company), take you generals and go AWAY!

Why? Ukraine WANTS help from the West. And none of our generals are in Ukraine. While Russian generals die in Ukraine.

Go back to your country and engage in solution of your own problems!
And you will to favour by this departure to everybody, to the whole world !

Nope.

We will continue to help Ukraine.

 

[dandolo2k]

How much words were told their about Russian "atrocities". All backed by fake evidences and Ukranian paid testimonies.
Everything which contradicts with this narrative is immediatly discarded as "Russian propaganda"
However this report of this organization can hardly be traced back to "Russian propaganda"
>> https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/08/europe/amnesty-ukraine-military-report-intl/index.html

The human rights watchdog published a press release last week accusing Ukrainian forces of putting civilians in harm's way by setting up military bases in residential areas, including schools and hospitals and launching attacks from populated civilian areas.

The truth slowly comes out. So will do the truth about the Western involvement in this "conflict"

 

[Fledermaus]

How much words were told their about Russian "atrocities". All backed by fake evidences and Ukranian paid testimonies.
Everything which contradicts with this narrative is immediatly discarded as "Russian propaganda"
However this report of this organization can hardly be traced back to "Russian propaganda"
>> https://edition.cnn.com/2022/08/08/europe/amnesty-ukraine-military-report-intl/index.html

The truth slowly comes out. So will do the truth about the Western involvement in this "conflict"

Bucha was Russia in it's purest form.

The Russian Rape and Pillage Army continues it's march on the people of Ukraine.

Experts not associated with Amnesty have found that patterns of violent acts by Russian forces in Ukraine meet the qualification of crimes against humanity.

"We must be very clear: Nothing we documented Ukrainian forces doing in any way justifies Russian violations," Amnesty said. "Russia alone is responsible for the violations it has committed against Ukrainian civilians. Amnesty's work over the last six months and our multiple briefings and reports on Russia's violations and war crimes reflect their scale and the gravity of their impact on civilians."

 

[Fledermaus]

@dandolo2k

Nearly everything you write about Ukraine and the US is either laughably wrong or Russian propaganda.

Why do you make a fool of yourself so?

 

[Rogue Valley]

Whats the use in this Map ? YOu can draw many other maps in Photoshop

The map comes from https://www.electoralgeography.com/new/en/

who tracks all elections https://www.electoralgeography.com/new/en/elections , even the fraudulant Russian elections.

It must suck being you Russian, only being able to believe what the Putin regime feeds you.

 

[dandolo2k]

The map comes from https://www.electoralgeography.com/new/en/

who tracks all elections https://www.electoralgeography.com/new/en/elections , even the fraudulant Russian elections.

It must suck being you Russian, only being able to believe what the Putin regime feeds you.

I believe it must surely suck being an AngloSax , somebody being hated by half of the world, having too long and clumsy nose poking in every hole , bringing unwanted "democracy" (at the tips of your bloody guns), and other boons of your "civilization" to nations who do not need it .

 

[Rogue Valley]

I believe it must surely suck being an AngloSax , somebody being hated by half of the world, having too long and clumsy nose poking in every hole , bringing unwanted "democracy" (at the tips of your bloody guns), and other boons of your "civilization" to nations who do not need it .

Russians are sanctioned by the world, not Americans. Try flying anywhere into Europe Russian.

Firstly, Russian airliners can no longer obtain spare parts and are no longer certified by international aviation.

Secondly, no Russian planes are permitted to overfly any European countries.

Kremlin propagandists like yourself are only welcomed by the pariah states ... Belarus, Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc.

 

[dandolo2k]

Russians are sanctioned by the world, not Americans. Try flying anywhere into Europe Russian.

Firstly, Russian airliners can no longer obtain spare parts and are no longer certified by international aviation.

Secondly, no Russian planes are permitted to overfly any European countries.

Kremlin propagandists like yourself are only welcomed by the pariah states ... Belarus, Iran, Syria, North Korea, etc.

and Serbia, India, China, Saudi Arabia, All Africa, all south America, pretty soon the whole world, except freezing Europe, the whole world will get into your list of "pariah" states.
Ha Ha , drink and eat your useless dollar bills, cause soon you will have nothing to eat and dring except them.
and btw, nobody wants to fly to your nazy Europe any longer , believe me!, We have nothing to buy in Europe, all your threats are laughable, instead of trolling here, take your guns and go yourself to fight for the Hunter Biden capitals here in Ukraine!

 

[Rogue Valley]

and btw, nobody wants to fly to your nazy Europe any longer , believe me!

Wrong again Russian.....

Nearly 4M Russians Left Russia in Early 2022 – FSB - The Moscow Times

More than 3.8 million Russians have left the country in the first three months of 2022, according to data from Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) published this week. A total of 3,880,679 Russians traveled for work, business, tourism and private reasons between January and March.

www.themoscowtimes.com

A second wave of Russians is fleeing Putin's regime

37-year-old Vladimir is one of a number of Russians who took time to get their affairs in order, but are now leaving the country.

www.cnbc.com

 

[dandolo2k]

Wrong again Russian.....

Nearly 4M Russians Left Russia in Early 2022 – FSB - The Moscow Times

More than 3.8 million Russians have left the country in the first three months of 2022, according to data from Russia’s Federal Security Service (FSB) published this week. A total of 3,880,679 Russians traveled for work, business, tourism and private reasons between January and March.

www.themoscowtimes.com

It’s unclear how many of these Russians have since returned to their home country.

This is the crucial phrase in all the article. Yes blah blah blah, everything is bad in Russia... Russian econmy is collapsing, Russian ruble is collapsing but...
Its all unclear ....
and we dont bear any responsibilty for these "unclear" "news" either.
So guys, 4 million have already left... you just need to accomodate space for 140 more millions and ... Halliluya !!! Putin will be left alone.
may be its time to raise yourself an inch from an infants level...

 

[Fledermaus]

I believe it must surely suck being an AngloSax , somebody being hated by half of the world, having too long and clumsy nose poking in every hole , bringing unwanted "democracy" (at the tips of your bloody guns), and other boons of your "civilization" to nations who do not need it .

It must suck to be a Russian, somebody loathed by half the world, having fomented violent revolutions world wide, bringing dictatorships and other evils of your "civilization" to nations who never needed it.

and Serbia, India, China, Saudi Arabia, All Africa, all south America, pretty soon the whole world, except freezing Europe, the whole world will get into your list of "pariah" states.

????????????????

Ha Ha , drink and eat your useless dollar bills, cause soon you will have nothing to eat and dring except them.

Sez the guy spending Rubles that are artificially propped up by virtual dictator for life Putin.

and btw, nobody wants to fly to your nazy Europe any longer , believe me!,

Nazi Europe?

It is rare that someone writes something so stupid.

We have nothing to buy in Europe, all your threats are laughable, instead of trolling here, take your guns and go yourself to fight for the Hunter Biden capitals here in Ukraine!

You have nothing to buy in Europe because the Ruble is scrap paper.

What are "Hunter Biden capitals"?

This is the crucial phrase in all the article. Yes blah blah blah, everything is bad in Russia... Russian econmy is collapsing, Russian ruble is collapsing but...
Its all unclear ....
and we dont bear any responsibilty for these "unclear" "news" either.
So guys, 4 million have already left... you just need to accomodate space for 140 more millions and ... Halliluya !!! Putin will be left alone.
may be its time to raise yourself an inch from an infants level...

What IS clear is that the Russian population is shrinking due to dissatisfaction with how Russia is being run.

 

[Rogue Valley]

So guys, 4 million have already left... you just need to accomodate space for 140 more millions

The brain-drain has already left Russia. What is left are the Russian imperialists/Nazis like yourself.

You do know the Russian military is using computer chips from washing machines to repair your damaged tanks?

Technology is now sanctioned from entering Russia. When your oil/gas trade disappears, and it will, your standard of living will be that of Czarist Russia.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Just for you Russian.....

Russian Airlines Cannibalizing Jets as Sanctions Stop Spare-Part Sales

Thanks to Putin, Russian plane operators can no longer buy vital components from abroad.

www.thedailybeast.com

 

[dandolo2k]

The brain-drain has already left Russia. What is left are the Russian imperialists/Nazis like yourself.

You do know the Russian military is using computer chips from washing machines to repair your damaged tanks?

Technology is now sanctioned from entering Russia. When your oil/gas trade disappears, and it will, your standard of living will be that of Czarist Russia.

So “The brain-drain has already left Russia” ? But that’s good ! If it has already left , that means there is NO “brain drain” in Russia any more , and since there is no drain , all the brains remain in Russia !! Excellent ? This is what you wanted to express ? Or may be you wanted to pass a different idea , but being raised in your wonderful educated society , you are simply not capable to ?
In fact there is a good question why you are constantly noising about “brain drain “ ? May be because your American nation is sterile , and simply not capable to produce/raise/educate any good brains ? That’s why you always desperately need import of brains ? The American education is notorious for its low quality , which so low that effectively its negative , the graduates being less smart the infants before entering your brainwashing education system. Teens in American schools do everything they want , they th@ck, they fight, they trade drugs , they intimidate and bully their classmates , learning how intimidate and bully all the nations in the world in future like Ukrainians, they do everything … except learning and acquiring useful skills . So , not surprising you get the expected results : “the brain drain got up , put on its hat … and left Russia “

 

[Rogue Valley]

So The brain-drain has already left Russia? But that’s good! If it has already left, that means there is NO “brain drain” in Russia any more , and since there is no drain , all the brains remain Russia!

I have to say, one of the most stupid and insipid posts I've read during my 9 years here at DP.

My suggestion is to charge all of the 4 million fleeing Russians a 50€ surcharge, and put that money towards the reconstruction of Ukraine.

 

[dandolo2k]

I have to say, one of the most stupid and insipid posts I've read during my 9 years here at DP.

My suggestion is to charge all of the 4 million fleeing Russians a 50€ surcharge, and put that money towards the reconstruction of Ukraine.

Yes please , wait till Russians clear the Ukraine from all Nazy gangs (Azov, Ukranian criminal police, etc), then they must restore peace on Ukraine, and then the liberated Ukraine will graciously accept these money. Americans who financed weapons trafficking and terrorizm on Ukraine should also be charged.

 

[Fledermaus]

Yes please , wait till Russians clear the Ukraine from all Nazy gangs (Azov, Ukranian criminal police, etc), then they must restore peace on Ukraine, and then the liberated Ukraine will graciously accept these money. Americans who financed weapons trafficking and terrorizm on Ukraine should also be charged.

One of the more profoundly stupid posts...

You want to "restore peace" in a war started by Putin in 2014 an expanded in 2022?

Putin is "liberating" nothing.