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[W:658]The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

I would say an AINO would be somebody who claims to be an atheist because they are “angry at God”. That isn’t an atheist.

That is a very good point...I've noticed some self-proclaimed atheists express an awful bitterness towards a God they claim to have no belief in...rather ironic, I think...
 
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Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

You are conflating a question about religion with a question about God's existence.
I'll be glad to answer your questions if you separate them and show you know what you're asking.

You see it's been said that you have stated (not by me) that you know that god exists.

Yet you said (to me) that you are not 100% sure that god exists.
Which surprised me as I understood you to consider yourself a Christian, and I've yet to meet a someone calling themselves a Christian, who admitted that they weren't sure that god exists.
They are usually sure he does. As a matter of fact.
Christians claim to know the answer(s).
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

That is a very good point...I've noticed some self-proclaimed atheists express and awful bitterness towards a God they claim to have no belief in...rather ironic, I think...

You say "self proclaimed Atheist" as if there were any other kind !


Anyone expressing bitterness to god (rather than a religion) cannot be said to be an Atheist. By acknowledging god, you acknowledge his existence.
QED: YOu cannot, therefore, be an Atheist.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

That is a very good point...I've noticed some self-proclaimed atheists express an awful bitterness towards a God they claim to have no belief in...rather ironic, I think...

Yes, if true that makes no sense. If you don't believe in god, how can you be bitter toward god?

Perhaps you mistaking their animosity towards the practices of some believers with animosity towards god? I'm willing to own that one.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Would AINO be similar to TINO? That is, a person who claims a belief in god but nothing in their life is driven by that belief.
No, they're opposites.
The TINO claims a belief he does not act on.
The AINO disclaims a belief he acts out on.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Yes, if true that makes no sense. If you don't believe in god, how can you be bitter toward god?

Perhaps you mistaking their animosity towards the practices of some believers with animosity towards god? I'm willing to own that one.

That could be but atheists also need to realize the actions they hate are in no way God's fault nor does He support the things they do...there is no scriptural support for their hypocritical ways...put the blame where it belongs...
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Atheism is a set of one belief. This is what the AINO denies. Without that belief (or disbelief, depending on how the fundamental proposition is phrased) atheism is not atheism; it is AINO. The creed or manifesto of the AINO is expressed in your post:

You are stuck.

The default position for any claim is to presume the claim is false until such time enough evidence is presented to warrant belief.
This is 101 stuff.

Using an example:
The state claims a person is guilty of murder.
The person walks out of the courtroom a free man. Why?

You are convinced there is only one answer. You are convinced he was found to be innocent.
You completely ignore the possibility that he was found to be not guilty.
You forget that when the state makes a criminality claim that the person is presumed to be innocent until they proven to be guilty.

When the claim : A god exists is made, gods are presumed to be not to exist until they are proven to exist.
It is the same logic.

Theists are making a claim about gods.
Atheists either don't believe the claim (vast majority of us)
or
Atheists have proven the claim to be false, which can be done depending on the specifics of the claim.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

2. Today's atheist is an AINO
3. The AINO Creed is an incoherent manifesto
I was curious where you were going to go with the idea of the AINO. I do not think I agree it is the appropriate use of the convention. I think the ‘new atheist’ / ‘AINO’ rhetorical techniques you highlight are a part of something much larger. I don’t think it’s just about God, I think this indivisible from a larger ideology/agenda.

For one, this fuzzy identifying in opposition rather than set of ideas is taking off across the board with the same inevitable results: unholy alliances. Whether its anti-fascists, anti-trump, anti-abortion, anti-AGW, atheist, asocial, asexual the result are always the same. An identity without a loose boundary function and the creation of subcultural taboos, heretics, others etc resistant to challenge by way of the “it the null hypothesis’ argument. You may also see how this cuts both ways. I think there is much validity to argument that ‘atheistic identity’ was created not as a recruitment tool but a smear. Once those labeled and isolated as atheistic rebelled and embraced their shaming title, the insidious forces of the psyche rather weaponized the ambiguity by way of the Luciferic. The net result is we see a loose group of individuals of variety motives united around rebellion. In and of itself that might be benign except for the larger agenda at play.

See much of the same sources of the “anti-X” rhetoric and the default position arguments very much do so with another rhetoric tool of intellectualization paradox(zeno paradox) for the purposes of making their point. They argue didn’t you know up is down? After all in Australia….this work similarly blurring context and content so that their definitions can takes hold. I am by no way saying that is atheistic. It is a rhetoric technique often used when seeking to groom victims.

The real question then is why all the tricks? The objective of simply ‘removing God’ is absurd on the face as anyone who reflects at all on the matter could see absent the terminology of God, the practical process and underlying realities remain(God => Tao). That would literally just evolve the language as we’ve seen done many times in the past. You indeed see lots of different types of atheistic styles from the reflective Harris/Carriers to the more accusatory Dawkins\Hitchens. It certainly doesn’t require an internal transformation or being convinced. It is not organized at that level. (It naive though to think the absence of something is the same as neutral/default)

No, there is a clear larger agenda at play and it takes aim at reform not rebellion. The rebellion is a means to ends and like most participates in any rebellion, most players are but game-pieces of larger forces. When we have a trans-human (systemic) agenda generally the best way to frame it is in terms of power. Who then gains power by these mechanisms and the answer are the priests. No, I don’t mean actual priests (although they are included). I mean the archetype. With the democratization of information the priestly class was stripped of their authority. No longer was a priest needed to interface with God. We saw the kings would prop them up fall and they too are fighting back and returning at an ever growing rate. They(those forged in the image) want power and they will reinvent themselves to get it. It doesn’t require you to be an atheist to fall victim, but no longer is that a defense against their new church.

Divided and isolated. Confused as to source of truth. In rebellion so long you crave a return to order. This is all apart of it. What opposes the priest is the prophet. The prophets and the priest are cut of the same cloth. The choice is ours. The collective macro expression of the war which rages within each of our psyche.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

You see it's been said that you have stated (not by me) that you know that god exists.

Yet you said (to me) that you are not 100% sure that god exists.
Which surprised me as I understood you to consider yourself a Christian, and I've yet to meet a someone calling themselves a Christian, who admitted that they weren't sure that god exists.
They are usually sure he does. As a matter of fact.
Christians claim to know the answer(s).
You're asking a potentially illuminating question, Rich, and I am eager to answer it, but unless you frame the question clearly, the promised illumination will be lost.
You're actually asking two questions. So separate them and allow me to answer.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Jean-Paul Sartre and Albert Camus were without a moral and semantic compass?

No. Just that the atheist thing is only not believing in any god thing.

That people are free to decied thier own chosen morals is just the next obvious after that.

Most of us want to be decent, honest people so humanism in some form is generally the way we go.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

That is a very good point...I've noticed some self-proclaimed atheists express an awful bitterness towards a God they claim to have no belief in...rather ironic, I think...

Not against God/god. Just against those who go around lying all the time and have no real inhibitions or respect for others at all using the lie of their supposed belief as some sort of justification for being superiour and above any sort of responsibility.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

...
Theists are making a claim about gods.
Atheists either don't believe the claim (vast majority of us)
or
Atheists have proven the claim to be false, which can be done depending on the specifics of the claim.
I don't follow your courtroom analogy or the reference to 101, but here, in the portion quotes, you hit on the very fallacy this thread is out to expose.
If a person is about evaluating the beliefs of others, he is not on the way toward atheism; he's on the way to becoming or not becoming a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.
If a man is about determining his own beliefs about the existence of God, then and only then is he on the way toward atheism *or theism of course).
Are you a true atheist or are you an AINO? It's all up to you.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

I don't follow your courtroom analogy or the reference to 101, but here, in the portion quotes, you hit on the very fallacy this thread is out to expose.
If a person is about evaluating the beliefs of others, he is not on the way toward atheism; he's on the way to becoming or not becoming a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, etc.
If a man is about determining his own beliefs about the existence of God, then and only then is he on the way toward atheism *or theism of course).
Are you a true atheist or are you an AINO? It's all up to you.


Why are you obsessed with atheism?
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Why are you obsessed with atheism?

He seems to be conflicted with his own beliefs and his religion of choice. ( which he has stated publicly he 'chooses to refuse to discuss' in public ) <----- his words
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Why are you obsessed with atheism?
Because atheism insulted my mother and spit in the punch bowl and pissed in the sink and mooned the girl scouts and tied cans to dogs's tails and pulled the wings off of flies.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Because atheism insulted my mother and spit in the punch bowl and pissed in the sink and mooned the girl scouts and tied cans to dogs's tails and pulled the wings off of flies.

You forgot: Caused you to doubt your faith.


The rest you could forgive.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

You're asking a potentially illuminating question, Rich, and I am eager to answer it, but unless you frame the question clearly, the promised illumination will be lost.
You're actually asking two questions. So separate them and allow me to answer.

You see it's been said that you have stated (not by me) that you know that god exists.

Yet you said (to me) that you are not 100% sure that god exists.
Which surprised me as I understood you to consider yourself a Christian, and I've yet to meet a someone calling themselves a Christian, who admitted that they weren't sure that god exists.
They are usually sure he does. As a matter of fact.
Christians claim to know the answer(s).
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

You forgot: Caused you to doubt your faith.


The rest you could forgive.
The only "faith" today's atheism might have caused me to lose is my faith in the rationality of man.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

The only "faith" today's atheism might have caused me to lose is my faith in the rationality of man.

So are you certain of the existence of the Christian god...or are you not certain ?
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

You see it's been said that you have stated (not by me) that you know that god exists.

Yet you said (to me) that you are not 100% sure that god exists.
Which surprised me as I understood you to consider yourself a Christian, and I've yet to meet a someone calling themselves a Christian, who admitted that they weren't sure that god exists.
They are usually sure he does. As a matter of fact.
Christians claim to know the answer(s).
Oh, I see what you're doing. Ignoring my good faith posts and repeating the same bad faith post again and again. That's a common AINO bit of behavior which I was introduced to in my first months at DP, compliments then of William Rea. Enjoy the darkness.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Oh, I see what you're doing. Ignoring my good faith posts and repeating the same bad faith post again and again. That's a common AINO bit of behavior which I was introduced to in my first months at DP, compliments then of William Rea. Enjoy the darkness.

I appreciate how kind you are to yourself, always giving yourself a pass. If anyone else talked like you do, you’d be calling them out as hypocrites, but you give yourself a pass with ‘fighting fire with fire’, being as belligerent as the people you criticize and unwilling to answer many a straight question. You acknowledge that all you’re doing is baiting and ‘shooting fish in a barrel’ and causing ‘mischief’, but then you claim your posts are ‘good faith’, rationalized with no more than historic revisionism and the infantile excuse of ‘but mom, Dawkins started it!’

But I guess if all you have is a naive idealism...


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Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

I appreciate how kind you are to yourself, always giving yourself a pass. If anyone else talked like you do, you’d be calling them out as hypocrites, but you give yourself a pass with ‘fighting fire with fire’, being as belligerent as the people you criticize and unwilling to answer many a straight question. You acknowledge that all you’re doing is baiting and ‘shooting fish in a barrel’ and causing ‘mischief’, but then you claim your posts are ‘good faith’, rationalized with no more than historic revisionism and the infantile excuse of ‘but mom, Dawkins started it!’

But I guess if all you have is a naive idealism...
Where did I "acknowledge that all [I'm] doing is baiting and ... causing ‘mischief’"? Or is this misrepresentation #12?
 
The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Where did I "acknowledge that all [I'm] doing is baiting and ... causing ‘mischief’"? Or is this misrepresentation #12?

Must I dig up the quotes where you admitted both, or are you quibbling with the word ‘all’? Are you suggesting you had secondary motives for your bloviating?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Must I dig up the quotes where you admitted both, or are you quibbling with the word ‘all’? Are you suggesting you had secondary motives for your bloviating?
Dig up the quotes.
 
Re: The Atheist-In-Name-Only

Jean-Paul Sartre and Albert Camus were without a moral and semantic compass?

Your claim was that “today’s atheism...is without s moral or semantic compass.”
Sartre and Camus were not “Atheism.” So to say that atheism never had a moral or semantic compass is not addressing individual atheists, nor is it even addressing any of the various philosophies that include atheism.
 
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