[W: 418] What all atheists believe

[William Rea]

Re: What all atheists believe

I have addressed "the point" and blown the doors off the objections.

If you want to make the point again...without any analogies...do so and we can discuss it.

We could have fun doing it.

I believe that it has been established that it would be impossible to have a fun conversation with a smart ass who posts in bad faith, so that is not possible.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: What all atheists believe

I believe that it has been established that it would be impossible to have a fun conversation with a smart ass who posts in bad faith, so that is not possible.

I suspected you would not take me up on the offer...and that you would rationalize your reason for being afraid to do so.

It was a guess.

Not a bad one, though.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: What all atheists believe

I appreciate your comments, but I will confine myself to the people who claim or assert "there are no gods."

The people who claim or assert "there are no gods"...are doing "believing"...as in "I believe there is a God."


That is all one can do on the question of, "Are there any gods involved in the Reality of existence.

One can make a guess...and then disguise the fact that it is a guess by calling it a "belief."

I am one of those atheists who assert there is no god.

And as i have already argued the problem here is one of defining the word belief.

For a theist belief is based on nothing more than faith.

For an atheist it is the lack of belief and has become more complicated because the word belief has in the minds of theists become to mean also a sign of faith. Nothing could be further from the truth however. The conclusion that there is no god can only come through good reason. It is not based on faith it is based on the logical conclusion of the reasoning used.

Theists do not provide reason in any form other than subjective opinion. Atheists rely on the fact that theists cannot do anything other than give a subjective unsupported view of gods existence.

And no, your statement relies on the insistence that you presumption of the existence of a fictional character is real and nothing more. To an atheist nothing has been offered that they should consider god to be anything but a fiction.

To ask, "Are there any gods involved in the Reality of existence." makes no more sense than to ask "Are there any tooth fairies, santas or harry potters involved in the Reality of existence."

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: What all atheists believe

I am one of those atheists who assert there is no god.

And as i have already argued the problem here is one of defining the word belief.

For a theist belief is based on nothing more than faith.

For an atheist it is the lack of belief and has become more complicated because the word belief has in the minds of theists become to mean also a sign of faith. Nothing could be further from the truth however. The conclusion that there is no god can only come through good reason. It is not based on faith it is based on the logical conclusion of the reasoning used.

Theists do not provide reason in any form other than subjective opinion. Atheists rely on the fact that theists cannot do anything other than give a subjective unsupported view of gods existence.

And no, your statement relies on the insistence that you presumption of the existence of a fictional character is real and nothing more. To an atheist nothing has been offered that they should consider god to be anything but a fiction.

To ask, "Are there any gods involved in the Reality of existence." makes no more sense than to ask "Are there any tooth fairies, santas or harry potters involved in the Reality of existence."

If you say, "I do not 'believe' in any gods"...most of what you said here makes some sense.

If you ASSERT that there are no gods (you say you do)...that assertion has no more basis in fact, logic, reason, math, or science than any assertion that at least one god exists.

Either you see that...or you don't. Matters not to me...I am not interesting in converting you in any way.

I personally do not "believe" any gods exist...and I also do not "believe" there are no gods. (Discussing in some detail here: I do not believe gods exist…and I do not believe there are no gods.

I have no problem with you people who "believe" (which is to say, blindly guess) one way or the other. And I must acknowledge that I get a bit of a kick out of atheists who think their blind guess has some basis in logic or reason.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: What all atheists believe

I am one of those atheists who assert there is no god.

And as i have already argued the problem here is one of defining the word belief.

For a theist belief is based on nothing more than faith.

For an atheist it is the lack of belief and has become more complicated because the word belief has in the minds of theists become to mean also a sign of faith. Nothing could be further from the truth however. The conclusion that there is no god can only come through good reason. It is not based on faith it is based on the logical conclusion of the reasoning used.

Theists do not provide reason in any form other than subjective opinion. Atheists rely on the fact that theists cannot do anything other than give a subjective unsupported view of gods existence.

And no, your statement relies on the insistence that you presumption of the existence of a fictional character is real and nothing more. To an atheist nothing has been offered that they should consider god to be anything but a fiction.

To ask, "Are there any gods involved in the Reality of existence." makes no more sense than to ask "Are there any tooth fairies, santas or harry potters involved in the Reality of existence."

If you say, "I do not 'believe' in any gods"...most of what you said here makes some sense.

If you ASSERT that there are no gods (you say you do)...that assertion has no more basis in fact, logic, reason, math, or science than any assertion that at least one god exists.

Either you see that...or you don't. Matters not to me...I am not interesting in converting you in any way.

I personally do not "believe" any gods exist...and I also do not "believe" there are no gods. (Discussing in some detail here: I do not believe gods exist…and I do not believe there are no gods.

I have no problem with you people who "believe" (which is to say, blindly guess) one way or the other. And I must acknowledge that I get a bit of a kick out of atheists who think their blind guess has some basis in logic or reason.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: What all atheists believe

Some people who use the designator "atheists" DO SAY OR ASSERT THAT THERE ARE NO GODS.

Now...I am not saying that every person who uses the designation "atheist" does that...says or asserts that there are no gods. SOME DO NOT DO THAT.

Some do not say or assert there are no gods.

But my guess is that damn near everyone who uses the designation "atheist" either guesses there are no gods...or guesses that it is more likely that there are no gods than that there is at least one god.

Of the people with whom I have had extended discussions on this topic (so far)...WHO DESIGNATE THEMSELVES ATHEISTS...100% have ultimately acknowledged that they either "believe" there are no gods; suppose there are no gods; or "believe" or suppose it is more likely there are no gods.

If you have a problem with that or negative considerations about it...let's discuss it more thoroughly.

As i have said, i am one of those atheists who assert there is no god. I have never been given a reason to think that this god thing is anything other than an imaginary character out of a badly written book. So why should i consider a god at all let alone hold a belief about it?

And again we get back to carefully defining words. Belief for a theist is only faith based. Lack of belief for an atheist can only be reached through reason. The word "belief " in this context has different connotations.

As well it should be pointed out that there is no fixed position for atheism. We all start out as ignostic having no knowledge of a god. It is not until a theist explains their god that we can move to the position of gnostic or agnostic. Once a theist tries to give evidence or good reason for their god we can then move to the position of atheist or even theist if we get hit by an epiphany.
And there are various positions we can take as an atheist. Such as a weak atheist who will not say there is no god to a strong atheist who will say there is no god onto a militant atheist who fights against a silly theist who wants to turn his ridiculous morality into a law of the country.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: What all atheists believe

If you say, "I do not 'believe' in any gods"...most of what you said here makes some sense.

If you ASSERT that there are no gods (you say you do)...that assertion has no more basis in fact, logic, reason, math, or science than any assertion that at least one god exists.

Either you see that...or you don't. Matters not to me...I am not interesting in converting you in any way.

I personally do not "believe" any gods exist...and I also do not "believe" there are no gods. (Discussing in some detail here: I do not believe gods exist…and I do not believe there are no gods.

I have no problem with you people who "believe" (which is to say, blindly guess) one way or the other. And I must acknowledge that I get a bit of a kick out of atheists who think their blind guess has some basis in logic or reason.

This is the very reason that i do not say i do not believe. Because theists will turn that word against us by pretending that it has the same meaning they give to the word belief.

And again you are mistaken and being presumptuous. There is nothing you can offer to me to say that logic, reason, math, or science has anything to do with a fictional character you call god. You simply use these words to pretend credibility.

The assertion that there is no god is based on the fact that no evidence or even a good reason has ever been given for the existence of one. God can only be considered as a work of fiction.

You really have to do better than to just say it is guessing on anyone part when you have yet to establish why we should even bother to guess.

The problem here is not my saying there is no god. The problem here is that you insist an invisible imaginary friend be treated as if it were real.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: What all atheists believe

This is the very reason that i do not say i do not believe. Because theists will turn that word against us by pretending that it has the same meaning they give to the word belief.

And again you are mistaken and being presumptuous. There is nothing you can offer to me to say that logic, reason, math, or science has anything to do with a fictional character you call god. You simply use these words to pretend credibility.

The assertion that there is no god is based on the fact that no evidence or even a good reason has ever been given for the existence of one. God can only be considered as a work of fiction.

You really have to do better than to just say it is guessing on anyone part when you have yet to establish why we should even bother to guess.

The problem here is not my saying there is no god. The problem here is that you insist an invisible imaginary friend be treated as if it were real.

There is no way I have any imaginary friends...or "beliefs" in any.

Here is my position:

I do not know if gods exist or not;
I see no reason to suspect gods CANNOT EXIST...that the existence of gods is impossible;
I see no reason to suspect that gods MUST EXIST...that gods are needed to explain existence;
I do not see enough unambiguous evidence upon which to base a meaningful guess in either direction...

...so I don't.


Tell me which line you have a problem with...and we can discuss it.

In the meantime...if you are "asserting" there are no gods...you ARE asserting a blind guess about the reality of existence.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Re: What all atheists believe

I have an imaginary friend, Harvey, a six foot tall invisible rabbit who drinks too much and is always drunk. Jimmy Stewart died and somehow I got stuck with him. If only he didn't suffer from too much gas, but he eats a lot of greens. Tough sharing an elevator with him, and I always have to keep the car windows open regardless of weather.

 

[Dragonfly]

Re: What all atheists believe

In the meantime...if you are "asserting" there are no gods...you ARE asserting a blind guess about the reality of existence.

Is that "assertion" and "blind guess about reality of existence" equal to saying there's no such thing as Sprites, Fairies, Leprechauns, Trolls, Werewolves, Vampires, Unicorns, White Walkers, ....

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: What all atheists believe

Is that "assertion" and "blind guess about reality of existence" equal to saying there's no such thing as Sprites, Fairies, Leprechauns, Trolls, Werewolves, Vampires, Unicorns, White Walkers, ....

I'll leave it with the assertion that there are no gods is nothing but a blind guess...comparable to the blind guess that there is at least one.

And the assertion "there are no gods" IS A BLIND GUESS.

You should realize that.

 

[JustHanging]

Re: What all atheists believe

One doesn't need evidence that something is possible.

If there is evidence that a thing is impossible...then it is impossible. Without that evidence...IT IS POSSIBLE.

Nope.

Just because we can't prove something is impossible does not mean it is possible. It means it might be possible, we don't know.

Next.

 

[JustHanging]

Re: What all atheists believe

I'll leave it with the assertion that there are no gods is nothing but a blind guess...comparable to the blind guess that there is at least one.

And the assertion "there are no gods" IS A BLIND GUESS.

You should realize that.

It's the same "assertion" about any storybook character, be it Santa Claus, Yahweh, or Harry Potter. They might exist, but we haven't seen enough evidence to satisfy us that they do.

You clearly believe one storybook character exists, Yahweh. So I have to ask: Do you also believe other storybook characters like Santa Claus and Harry Potter exist?

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: What all atheists believe

Nope.

Just because we can't prove something is impossible does not mean it is possible. It means it might be possible, we don't know.

Next.

If you have not established it as impossible...

...it is possible.

It is at least POSSIBLE.

That is what the word means.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: What all atheists believe

It's the same "assertion" about any storybook character, be it Santa Claus, Yahweh, or Harry Potter. They might exist, but we haven't seen enough evidence to satisfy us that they do.

You clearly believe one storybook character exists, Yahweh. So I have to ask: Do you also believe other storybook characters like Santa Claus and Harry Potter exist?

It is not the same.

I do not do "believing" at all. If I make a guess...I call it a guess, not a "belief"; if I make an estimate...I call it an estimate, not a "belief"; if I make a supposition, I call it a supposition, not a "belief."

I do not suppose, guess, estimate or anything else that Yahweh or any other gods exist. I also do not suppose, guess, estimate or anything else that there are no gods.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: What all atheists believe

There are no invisible and intangible four-dimensional goblins dancing in my kitchen. Is that a blind guess?

 

[Arjay81]

Re: What all atheists believe

It is not the same.

I do not do "believing" at all. If I make a guess...I call it a guess, not a "belief"; if I make an estimate...I call it an estimate, not a "belief"; if I make a supposition, I call it a supposition, not a "belief."

I do not suppose, guess, estimate or anything else that Yahweh or any other gods exist. I also do not suppose, guess, estimate or anything else that there are no gods.

So you admit that you do not "know" the answers yet continue to waste all of our time by arguing about it. You have made your claim now just go away.

 

[calamity]

Re: What all atheists believe

There are no invisible and intangible four-dimensional goblins dancing in my kitchen. Is that a blind guess?

I believe you are right.

 

[Quag]

Re: What all atheists believe

If you have not established it as impossible...

...it is possible.

It is at least POSSIBLE.

That is what the word means.

Nope you are mistaken and you have been shown why you are mistaken

 

[Quag]

Re: What all atheists believe

It is not the same.

I do not do "believing" at all. If I make a guess...I call it a guess, not a "belief"; if I make an estimate...I call it an estimate, not a "belief"; if I make a supposition, I call it a supposition, not a "belief."

I do not suppose, guess, estimate or anything else that Yahweh or any other gods exist. I also do not suppose, guess, estimate or anything else that there are no gods.

You believe a lot of things you are just dishonest about it

 

[Quag]

Re: What all atheists believe

Nope.

Just because we can't prove something is impossible does not mean it is possible. It means it might be possible, we don't know.

Next.

Wanna borrow my 2 headed coin to slap the stupid out of him?

 

[Quag]

Re: What all atheists believe

I'll leave.

yes please do

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: What all atheists believe

So you admit that you do not "know" the answers yet continue to waste all of our time by arguing about it. You have made your claim now just go away.

Go back to the sandbox. The other kids are waiting.

Boy...some atheists sure get upset when they realize they are as much a bunch of blind guessers as the theist they pretend to be superior to.

 

[Frank Apisa]

Re: What all atheists believe

There are no invisible and intangible four-dimensional goblins dancing in my kitchen. Is that a blind guess?

Yes.

You have no idea about any "invisible, intangible, four-dimensional" anythings in your kitchen.

It is a guess you are making.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: What all atheists believe

He's back!