[W:363]Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[TU Curmudgeon]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/01/31/quote-of-the-week-federal-judge-global-warming-is-not-starting-these-fires/"]

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[h=1]Quote of the week – Federal Judge: ‘Global warming is not starting these fires.’[/h][FONT="][FONT=inherit]SAN FRANCISCO — A day after PG&E filed for bankruptcy protection from what could be multi-billion dollar wildfire liability costs, a federal judge Wednesday declared the beleaguered utility in violation of its probation for the 2010 San Bruno gas pipeline explosion and spent three hours excoriating the company for its role in the blazes that…[/FONT]
[FONT=inherit][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/01/31/quote-of-the-week-federal-judge-global-warming-is-not-starting-these-fires/"]Continue reading →[/URL][/FONT]
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Does it ever occur to anyone that:

1. every dollar spent prosecuting PG&E is a dollar less that is available to remediate the damages: and
2. every dollar spent defending PG&E is a dollar less that is available to remediate the damages?

On the other hand, every dollar spent either prosecuting or defending PG&E is a dollar more in the pockets of lawyers, and lawyers tend to make up a disproportionate share of legislators.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

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[h=1]California acknowledges government policy failures in wildfires – not nebulous “climate change” excuses[/h][FONT=&quot]Guest essay by Larry Hamlin Articles in the New York Times, Los Angeles Times, and Orange County Register address Governor Newsom’s declaration of a state of emergency to allow the state to waive environmental extremist laws and regulations that are needed so that Cal Fire can proceed with actions to clear dead trees, remove excessive…
Continue reading →
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[Dittohead not!]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Does it ever occur to anyone that:

1. every dollar spent prosecuting PG&E is a dollar less that is available to remediate the damages: and
2. every dollar spent defending PG&E is a dollar less that is available to remediate the damages?

On the other hand, every dollar spent either prosecuting or defending PG&E is a dollar more in the pockets of lawyers, and lawyers tend to make up a disproportionate share of legislators.

I'm sure the lawyers have figured that out.
Which is why they want to prosecute and defend P.G. and E.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[h=2]California Climate Has Always Been Wild And Unstable – Even With Low Atmospheric CO2 – New Study Shows![/h]By P Gosselin on 30. March 2019
A new study has just come out in the journal Earth and Planetary Science Letters: Biomarkers reveal abrupt switches in hydroclimate during the last glacial in southern California.

Hat-tip: reader Mary Brown
It contradicts claims often made by global warming alarmists that the perceived California climate change is unusual, and that it is mostly due to man emitting “climate gases” into the atmosphere.
The new study finds that California’s climate has always been extreme roller coaster-like – even when atmospheric CO2 was at very low levels (ca. 200 ppm), as was the case during the last ice age.

Proxy evidence shows “temperatures varied during the last glacial, including extreme warmth”.
What follows is the paper’s abstract:

Reconstructions of past hydroclimate provide a means to understand precipitation responses to global ocean-atmosphere climate dynamics beyond the scope of that in the instrumental record.
Late glacial climate was characterized by abrupt variability in ice and ocean dynamics, however the implications for hydroclimate are not as well known. Here we present organic geochemical proxy evidence for precipitation isotopes based on plant leaf wax hydrogen isotopic compositions (δDwax) and temperature proxy evidence based upon the branched glycerol dialkyl glycerol tetraethers (brGDGTs), that derive from the membrane lipids of bacteria, each extracted from a sedimentary archive in Lake Elsinore, California spanning 32–9 ka. We add proxy evidence for vegetation and salinity from additional biomarker analyses and compare to prior pollen and sedimentological evidence from the same core.
Our record indicates a strong deglacial warming of 10 °C in Lake Elsinore (beginning at 14.5 ka) that accompanied a D-enrichment of precipitation of +90‰ and more C4 vegetation (12–10 ka), after a cold, wet and C3-dominated phase (20–14.5 ka), indicating winter-dominated precipitation during the Last Glacial Maximum and Heinrich Stadial 1. During the late glacial (32–20 ka) we find abrupt variability, with precipitation isotopic shifts (∼70‰) that are independent of temperature swings implicating changes in storm track, rather than local temperature as drivers of the precipitation isotope signal.Temperature is however not irrelevant for hydroclimate: we find extreme warmth at 29.4 ka and 26.8 ka, the latter coincident with existing reports of an extended dry period (27.5–25.5 ka), suggesting a long hot and dry interlude during the generally cooler glacial period. We compare δDwax with speleothem δ18O from Nevada, also within the winter-dominated precipitation region. Our results corroborate the Last Glacial Maximum and deglacial signals, and fill gaps revealing storm-track instability from 32–20 ka, however the pacing and magnitude of the biomarker signals merit cautious interpretation.”
​

Surprise, surprise – California’s climate has always been on the very wild side. Low CO2 did not tame it at all.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

California Climate Has Always Been Wild And Unstable – Even With Low Atmospheric CO2 – New Study Shows!

By P Gosselin on 30. March 2019
A new study has just come out in the journal Earth and Planetary Science Letters: Biomarkers reveal abrupt switches in hydroclimate during the last glacial in southern California.

Hat-tip: reader Mary Brown
It contradicts claims often made by global warming alarmists that the perceived California climate change is unusual, and that it is mostly due to man emitting “climate gases” into the atmosphere.
The new study finds that California’s climate has always been extreme roller coaster-like – even when atmospheric CO2 was at very low levels (ca. 200 ppm), as was the case during the last ice age.

Proxy evidence shows “temperatures varied during the last glacial, including extreme warmth”.
What follows is the paper’s abstract:

Reconstructions of past hydroclimate provide a means to understand precipitation responses to global ocean-atmosphere climate dynamics beyond the scope of that in the instrumental record.
Late glacial climate was characterized by abrupt variability in ice and ocean dynamics, however the implications for hydroclimate are not as well known. Here we present organic geochemical proxy evidence for precipitation isotopes based on plant leaf wax hydrogen isotopic compositions (δDwax) and temperature proxy evidence based upon the branched glycerol dialkyl glycerol tetraethers (brGDGTs), that derive from the membrane lipids of bacteria, each extracted from a sedimentary archive in Lake Elsinore, California spanning 32–9 ka. We add proxy evidence for vegetation and salinity from additional biomarker analyses and compare to prior pollen and sedimentological evidence from the same core.
Our record indicates a strong deglacial warming of 10 °C in Lake Elsinore (beginning at 14.5 ka) that accompanied a D-enrichment of precipitation of +90‰ and more C4 vegetation (12–10 ka), after a cold, wet and C3-dominated phase (20–14.5 ka), indicating winter-dominated precipitation during the Last Glacial Maximum and Heinrich Stadial 1. During the late glacial (32–20 ka) we find abrupt variability, with precipitation isotopic shifts (∼70‰) that are independent of temperature swings implicating changes in storm track, rather than local temperature as drivers of the precipitation isotope signal.Temperature is however not irrelevant for hydroclimate: we find extreme warmth at 29.4 ka and 26.8 ka, the latter coincident with existing reports of an extended dry period (27.5–25.5 ka), suggesting a long hot and dry interlude during the generally cooler glacial period. We compare δDwax with speleothem δ18O from Nevada, also within the winter-dominated precipitation region. Our results corroborate the Last Glacial Maximum and deglacial signals, and fill gaps revealing storm-track instability from 32–20 ka, however the pacing and magnitude of the biomarker signals merit cautious interpretation.”
​

Surprise, surprise – California’s climate has always been on the very wild side. Low CO2 did not tame it at all.

Other than the fact that the data seems to be restricted to an "immediate post glaciation" period (which, as far as I know, is not the current situation, there is, of course, absolutely no possibility that California's specific geologic/meterologic placement makes it more prone to wider swings and/or swings arising further out on the shoulders of any climactic change.

Right?

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Other than the fact that the data seems to be restricted to an "immediate post glaciation" period (which, as far as I know, is not the current situation, there is, of course, absolutely no possibility that California's specific geologic/meterologic placement makes it more prone to wider swings and/or swings arising further out on the shoulders of any climactic change.

Right?

"The new study finds that California’s climate has always been extreme roller coaster-like – even when atmospheric CO2 was at very low levels (ca. 200 ppm), as was the case during the last ice age."

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

"The new study finds that California’s climate has always been extreme roller coaster-like – even when atmospheric CO2 was at very low levels (ca. 200 ppm), as was the case during the last ice age."

Which does not actually address my point, does it?

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Which does not actually address my point, does it?

Yes it does, completely.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Yes it does, completely.

I'm glad that you think so.

By the way, did you know that seat belts cause more than 90% of all motor vehicle accidents?

I know that this is true because more than 90% of all motor vehicles involved in accidents have seat belts and a 90+% correlation simply cannot be dismissed as "coincidental" and PROVES that "fact" beyond any reasonable doubt as there is no other possible factor that could even remotely be involved.

Right?

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

I'm glad that you think so.

By the way, did you know that seat belts cause more than 90% of all motor vehicle accidents?

I know that this is true because more than 90% of all motor vehicles involved in accidents have seat belts and a 90+% correlation simply cannot be dismissed as "coincidental" and PROVES that "fact" beyond any reasonable doubt as there is no other possible factor that could even remotely be involved.

Right?

Irrational rant.

Assuming your #580 was intended sarcastically, you and the study I posted are on the same side.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Irrational rant.

Assuming your #580 was intended sarcastically, you and the study I posted are on the same side.

If you mean that the study establishes that California's climate has always been labile but we don't know why, then you are correct.

Some dynamically stable systems are more prone to wider fluctuations due to the same "disruptive force" than others and those which are are better indicators of the existence of that force than those which are less liable to perturbations.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[h=2]Analysis Of 7 California Stations Shows No Precipitation Trend Change[/h]By P Gosselin on 7. April 2019
[h=3]By Kirye[/h]and P. Gosselin
We often hear how the climate is changing everywhere, like in California.
Listening to the media we get the impression that the Golden State is drying out and risks burning up, before heavy rains hit. Others claim the state is facing “weather whiplash” because climate change will make the weather more extreme and volatile.
Today we take a look at the precipitation data of 7 stations spread across the state to see what changes have been happening. Used here are the data from the Japan Meteorology Agency (JMA) that cover the last 33 years.

Data: JMA.​

As we can see, there has been no trend over the past 30 years. Variability also appears unchanged. California has always been a state characterized by alternating periods of drought and rainfall influenced by oceanic cycles like ENSO. The data show everything is within the normal range.
The real trend is the massive increase in media climate ambulance chasing where every anomaly gets hyped into something much more than it really is.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[h=1]California’s government solely responsible for states forest management and wildfire debacle[/h][FONT=&quot]Guest essay by Larry Hamlin The inept government, political and regulatory policies of California have clearly driven the present forest management calamitous conditions with that failure leading to disastrous wildfires throughout the state. Those government and political leaders that are responsible for this situation that has been decades in the making have tried to conceal…
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2 days ago May 14, 2019 in Wildfires.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[FONT="][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/14/californias-government-solely-responsible-for-states-forest-management-and-wildfire-debacle/"]

[/URL][/FONT]
[h=1]California’s government solely responsible for states forest management and wildfire debacle[/h][FONT="][FONT=inherit]Guest essay by Larry Hamlin The inept government, political and regulatory policies of California have clearly driven the present forest management calamitous conditions with that failure leading to disastrous wildfires throughout the state. Those government and political leaders that are responsible for this situation that has been decades in the making have tried to conceal…[/FONT]
[/FONT][/COLOR]
[URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/14/californias-government-solely-responsible-for-states-forest-management-and-wildfire-debacle/"]2 days ago May 14, 2019[/URL] in Wildfires.

That someone who blames California for management of the national forests would be quoted in WUWT is totally logical and believable.

and that mismanagement of America's national forests is mostly to blame for destructive wildfires is easy to support.

Now, if only California had experienced destructive wildfires in the national forests, and other states had escaped the devastation, then blaming the Democrats in California might have some validity.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

That someone who blames California for management of the national forests would be quoted in WUWT is totally logical and believable.

and that mismanagement of America's national forests is mostly to blame for destructive wildfires is easy to support.

Now, if only California had experienced destructive wildfires in the national forests, and other states had escaped the devastation, then blaming the Democrats in California might have some validity.

[h=3]California Officials Blame PG&E For State's Deadliest Wildfire : NPR[/h]
[url]https://www.npr.org/.../pg-e-transmission-lines-caused-californias-deadliest-wildfire-state...
[/URL]
13 hours ago - PG&E Transmission Lines Caused California's Deadliest Wildfire, State Officials ... State officials say the fire was caused by PG&E power lines.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[h=3]California Officials Blame PG&E For State's Deadliest Wildfire : NPR[/h]
[url]https://www.npr.org/.../pg-e-transmission-lines-caused-californias-deadliest-wildfire-state...
[/URL]
13 hours ago - PG&E Transmission Lines Caused California's Deadliest Wildfire, State Officials ... State officials say the fire was caused by PG&E power lines.

Which has nothing to do with who manages the national forests or anything else I posted. Did you think P G and E managed the forests?

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Which has nothing to do with who manages the national forests or anything else I posted. Did you think P G and E managed the forests?

[FONT=&quot]". . . Those government and political leaders that are responsible for this situation that has been decades in the making have tried to conceal their incompetence by making scientifically unsupported propaganda claims that “climate change” caused this situation. These government driven problems are clearly identified in two recent reports – one by Cal Fire and the other by the California Legislative Analysts Office. . . . "[/FONT]


California’s government solely responsible for states forest management and wildfire debacle

Guest essay by Larry Hamlin The inept government, political and regulatory policies of California have clearly driven the present forest management calamitous conditions with that failure leading to disastrous wildfires throughout the state. Those government and political leaders that are responsible for this situation that has been decades in the making have tried to conceal…

2 days ago May 14, 2019 in Wildfires.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

[FONT="]". . . Those government and political leaders that are responsible for this situation that has been decades in the making have tried to conceal their incompetence by making scientifically unsupported propaganda claims that “climate change” caused this situation. These government driven problems are clearly identified in two recent reports – one by Cal Fire and the other by the California Legislative Analysts Office. . . . "[/FONT][/COLOR]

[COLOR=#404040][FONT='inherit'][URL="https://wattsupwiththat.com/2019/05/14/californias-government-solely-responsible-for-states-forest-management-and-wildfire-debacle/"]

[/URL][/FONT]
California’s government solely responsible for states forest management and wildfire debacle

Guest essay by Larry Hamlin The inept government, political and regulatory policies of California have clearly driven the present forest management calamitous conditions with that failure leading to disastrous wildfires throughout the state. Those government and political leaders that are responsible for this situation that has been decades in the making have tried to conceal…

2 days ago May 14, 2019 in Wildfires.

There is no question that climate change played a role in the devastating wildfires that happened all over the western US last year. Mismanagement of the national forests also played a role. One fire was started by P G and E equipment, which has people wanting that company, really their ratepayers of which I am one, paying for that particular fire. Wildfires are not a problem peculiar to California however.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

There is no question that climate change played a role in the devastating wildfires that happened all over the western US last year. Mismanagement of the national forests also played a role. One fire was started by P G and E equipment, which has people wanting that company, really their ratepayers of which I am one, paying for that particular fire. Wildfires are not a problem peculiar to California however.

On the contrary, there's no question climate change played no role.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

On the contrary, there's no question climate change played no role.

How can you be so sure? You're already on record being of the opinion that climate change is real, just not caused by humans. If it's real, why couldn't it have played a role in wildfires?

unless you have changed your opinion, that is.

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

How can you be so sure? You're already on record being of the opinion that climate change is real, just not caused by humans. If it's real, why couldn't it have played a role in wildfires?

unless you have changed your opinion, that is.

Anthropogenic climate change played no role.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Anthropogenic climate change played no role.

You said that climate change played no role. Now, you say anthropogenic climate change played no role. What difference does it make the cause of the climate change?

 

[Jack Hays]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

You said that climate change played no role. Now, you say anthropogenic climate change played no role. What difference does it make the cause of the climate change?

Generally in these debates "climate change" is understood as "anthropogenic climate change." If I was not sufficiently precise I apologize. In this particular discussion non-anthropogenic climate change is just business as usual.

 

[Dittohead not!]

Re: Trump threatens to pull federal funding for California wildfires over 'gross mismanagement'

Generally in these debates "climate change" is understood as "anthropogenic climate change." If I was not sufficiently precise I apologize. In this particular discussion non-anthropogenic climate change is just business as usual.

So, natural climate change may have played a role, along with the federal government's mismanaging of the national forests.

Finally, we agree, I think.

Except that I do still agree with the world's scientific organizations that we humans are accelerating climate change.