[W:363]accepting gay as normal

[captaintrips]

The abuse cases weren't happening after gay [people were permitted to join the BSA.

Why are you so determined to believe that gay people are child abusers, despite the facts saying otherwise?

Because the known facts do not necessarily say otherwise.

Why are you so determined to believe that the sexual abuse of boys did not increase during the period of time after 2015 when gays became part of the boy scouts ?

You say;

"The abuse cases weren't happening after gay [people were permitted to join the BSA.

n the 1920s, the organization began keeping confidential files on those volunteers prevented from serving due to allegations of child sex abuse. However, these weren’t released until 2012, when the Oregon Supreme Court ordered them made public.

A review by the University of Virginia found nearly 8,000 perpetrators and over 12,250 victims in these files from just 1944 through 2016. The LA Times also found hundreds of these cases were never reported to law enforcement, or were kept hidden from family members.

More recently, lawyers representing victims have noted the BSA files show as many as 14,000 children were abused by Scout leaders between just 1965 and 1985. Therefore, the total number of victims could be over 25,000."

So the information on prior abuses from the 1920's to 2012 was released.

This is good.

A review by the University of Virginia found nearly 8,000 perpetrators and over 12,250 victims in these files from just 1944 through 2016.

Ok

recently, lawyers representing victims have noted the BSA files show as many as 14,000 children were abused by Scout leaders between just 1965 and 1985. Therefore, the total number of victims could be over 25,000.

Ok, good. Information is good.

Maybe MAYBE we can solve this, let's see.

From 2015 to now, or very recently, when the Boy Scouts had to file bankruptcy, what were the number of sexual abuse cases ? AND, what number of them were carried out by; 1. homosexual men 2. heterosexual men or 3. Gender questioning/trans whatever men ?

Not to be overly tedious, but it would be necessary to know those numbers. I have no idea if they would be significantly relevant or not, they may or may NOT be. But to put this completely to rest, make Ann Coulter and WND look overly zealous in how they reported on the matter, we need those numbers.

Do I expect we'll be able to FIND them ? Not really, I doubt such analyses were done on the matter. Maybe they were, who knows ? But I doubt it.

BUT, you may be correct. I really do not know unless and until more information is found.

 

[CriticalThought]

Ask yourself that.

You have shown more cases that may have, or have occurred before open homosexuals were allowed into the Boy Scouts.

As already stated;

I am not denying that there were such incidents before 2015, there have been child molesters around for as long as humans have existed.... not all are, or were homosexuals either.

BUT, to show that there is ZERO connection to the Boy Scouts bankruptcy filing, and it's 2015 decision to allow open homosexuals to be a part of the Boy Scouts, we have to show that most or ALL of these cases occurred before that, or that there was no significant jump in cases SINCE 2015, when open homosexuals were allowed to join Boy Scouts.

Perhaps that CAN be demonstrated ? I do not know ?

But that will be required if we want to really sever any connection here.

Can you do that ? Highly doubtful. Do you have the time and resources needed to gather all of the real data required for that ? No. It would be a daunting project and may not even be possible with privacy laws etc., coupled with the fact that there are powerful people and LOTS of money paying to keep negative aspects of these matters regarding Americans new tastes for, and acceptance of sexual oddities shielded from, or hidden from us.

I don't have to show anything. I made the claim there has been no child abuse prosecutions involving the BSA since 2006 and even provided a link of the last one. As such I have made a claim that you should easily be able to disprove if I am wrong. You have provided absolutely no evidence of any sexual abuse victims since 2015, only your assumption of such, which is an insufficient claim given you are trying to link a cause and effect relationship between sexual abuse victims and the BSA policy in 2015. You were wrong and now rather than admit it, you are doubling down on a baseless assumption. I can't really help you if you want to make up things to believe rather than invest in the truth.

 

[Quag]

I know facts, information & data we don't care for will be ignored, denied, dismissed whatever. You can pretend it's incomprehensible nonsense if you like.

But...

It's information that MAY assist those capable of logical analyses. Again, what happened that relates this matter to the boy scouts, homosexuality and pedophilia.

Those unable to discern the likely connections, because they don't want there to be any, have their own personal issues that I'm not interested in examining.

We're talking again about the boy scouts, what happened when they decided to allow "homosexuals" to be involved with the boy scouts.

The level of nastiness and wild-eyed denials and insults directed at people pointing this out, is very telling

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

It was bad to let "gays" join the boy scouts.. Boy Scouts are going bankrupt !!

Headline; Boy Scouts Files Chapter 11 Bankruptcy in the Face of Thousands of Child Abuse Allegations

The lawsuits have killed them. .. the BSA has been whiplashed into bankruptcy by liberals demanding, on one hand, that the scouts allow gays to be troop leaders and, on the other hand, filing lawsuits accusing the scouts of not taking strong enough measures to prevent gay troop leaders from molesting boys.

Boy Scouts of America (BSA) filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection after mounting sexual abuse claims..victims in over two dozen states, the cases represent "thousands of perpetrators" and "tens of thousands of victims."

In July of 2015, the Boy Scouts of America announced that it was lifting its national ban on homosexual adult leaders. This came after years of activist pressure, during which the BSA was encouraged to admit homosexual Scouts, Scout leaders and, finally, girls to their ranks. Homosexuals were allowed into the Boy Scouts. The BSA is now experiencing an epidemic of sexual misconduct and lawsuits.

This was not the case prior to their admittance of homosexuals into the organization....denying the correlation is as irrational as denying the existence of gravity.

See post# 592 for more details

Essentially, what we have here are certain people, liberals/progressives whatever, denying, lying about, or pretending that the clear connection doesn't exist.

It does

It's right there for the world to see

Again

In July of 2015, the Boy Scouts of America announced that it was lifting its national ban on homosexual adult leaders.

Homosexuals were allowed into the Boy Scouts. The BSA is now experiencing an epidemic of sexual misconduct and lawsuits.

This was not the case prior to their admittance of homosexuals into the organization...

1. In 2015 the Boy Scouts allowed open "homosexuals" into their organization

2. Since that time, the Boyscouts have had to file for bankruptcy due to thousands of child sex abuse suits & allegations filed against them

3. Conclusion - It is clear, since 2015, homosexuals were admitted into the Boy Scouts. Since that time, the Boy Scouts have had to file for bankruptcy due to thousands of child sex abuse suits & allegations filed against them. Whether or not the cause is that gay men are child-molesters or not is not the discussion. The discussion is the results we clearly see here.

Draw your own conclusions

The only conclusion I can draw from your long winded illogcal mess of a post is that you dont undersatand the difference between pedophelia and homosexuality

 

[captaintrips]

I don't have to show anything. I made the claim there has been no child abuse prosecutions involving the BSA since 2006 and even provided a link of the last one. As such I have made a claim that you should easily be able to disprove if I am wrong. You have provided absolutely no evidence of any sexual abuse victims since 2015, only your assumption of such, which is an insufficient claim given you are trying to link a cause and effect relationship between sexual abuse victims and the BSA policy in 2015. You were wrong and now rather than admit it, you are doubling down on a baseless assumption. I can't really help you if you want to make up things to believe rather than invest in the truth.

Ok, all of the child-molesters in the Boy Scouts, engaged in their practice for the last .. about 100 years, decided to cease & desist in the year 2015.

I wonder . . . perhaps the Vatican should accept open - that's open - homosexuals & transgenders etc. into their organization ! That seems to be the way to make child-molesters stop engaging in it.

New solutions to old problems, I AM open-minded no ? LOL

 

[Lisa]

Ok, all of the child-molesters in the Boy Scouts, engaged in their practice for the last .. about 100 years, decided to cease & desist in the year 2015.
I wonder . . . perhaps the Vatican should accept open - that's open - homosexuals & transgenders etc. into their organization ! That seems to be the way to make child-molesters stop engaging in it.

New solutions to old problems, I AM open-minded no ? LOL

This is an outrageous and disgusting claim. Where is the proof that gay and transgendered peopel are child moslesters?

 

[captaintrips]

This is an outrageous and disgusting claim. Where is the proof that gay and transgendered peopel are child moslesters?

You aren't paying attention.

I'm going off of the suggestions of others.

Where is the proof that gay and transgendered peopel aren't child molesters?

You're pissed that maybe there ARE some. Read carefully ; ) Be mad if it suits you, I'm not interested in your anger about these matters.

A previous member states; "... I can't really help you if you want to make up things to believe rather than invest in the truth." - see #627 above

That's a good statement that applies to everyone. We can all pretend that things we don't like, don't occur. I'm not claiming that kids weren't molested before 2015, and I haven't said that ONLY "gays" molested boys AFTER 2015. It's a curious thing that just a few short years after 'gays' & transgenders were allowed into the boy scouts, the scouts had to file for bankruptcy because of molestation lawsuits though.

Unfortunate coincidence ? Maybe, maybe not ... now you can be mad some more ; )

 

[Lisa]

You aren't paying attention.

I'm going off of the suggestions of others.

Where is the proof that gay and transgendered people aren't child molesters?

You're pissed that maybe there ARE some. Read carefully ; ) Be mad if it suits you, I'm not interested in your anger about these matters.

A previous member states; "... I can't really help you if you want to make up things to believe rather than invest in the truth." - see #627 above

That's a good statement that applies to everyone. We can all pretend that things we don't like, don't occur. I'm not claiming that kids weren't molested before 2015, and I haven't said that ONLY "gays" molested boys AFTER 2015. It's a curious thing that just a few short years after 'gays' & transgenders were allowed into the boy scouts, the scouts had to file for bankruptcy because of molestation lawsuits though.

Unfortunate coincidence? Maybe, maybe not ... now you can be mad some more ; )

There is nothing to suggest that gay and transgdered people are child molesters just because you believe that they are. You are making this positive claim and you need to prove it to be true. You are somehow convinced because they are not heterosexual, despite the fact that transgendered people are very often heterosexual in their gender identity means that automatically they are perverts who molest children.

82% of the suspected perpetrators of child sexual abuse in a study sample were at the time of the offense or had been at some time involved in a heterosexual relationship with a close relative of the child they victimized. In their study sample, researchers found that a child’s risk of being molested by his or her relative’s heterosexual partner was over 100 times greater than their being molested by someone who identifies as being homosexual, lesbian or bisexual (0.7% of the cases).1According to a study conducted in Massachusetts, young lesbians and bisexual girls experienced more sexual harassment than heterosexual girls. 72% of lesbian and bisexual girls reported that they were “called sexually offensive names” by their peers, compared with 63% of heterosexual girls. Lesbians and bisexual girls were significantly more likely than heterosexual girls to be “touched, brushed up against, or cornered in a sexual way (63% as compared to 52% of heterosexual girls) and to be grabbedor have their clothing pulled in a sexual way (50% compared to 44%). 23% of young lesbian and bisexual girls reported that their peers had “attempted to hurt them in a sexual way (attempted rape or rape),” while 6% of the heterosexual girls surveyed had experienced sexual violence of this nature.”

https://barcc.org/assets/img/Statistics_Download_-_LGBT.pdf

 

[captaintrips]

There is nothing to suggest that gay and transgdered people are child molesters just because you believe that they are. You are making this positive claim and you need to prove it to be true. You are somehow convinced because they are not heterosexual, despite the fact that transgendered people are very often heterosexual in their gender identity means that automatically they are perverts who molest children.

https://barcc.org/assets/img/Statistics_Download_-_LGBT.pdf

You either 1. have a reading comprehension problem.

or

2. Anyone that doesn't 100% agree with everything you might say on this matter, makes you unable to read, absorb and process information correctly.

 

[Lisa]

You either 1. have a reading comprehension problem.

or

2. Anyone that doesn't 100% agree with everything you might say on this matter, makes you unable to read, absorb and process information correctly.

Where is the evidence that LGBT are likely to be child molesters, as you are suggesting? Your entire argument is a correlation without causation fallacy. You are trying to like the molestation to LGBT people via the dates of the abuse happening without any actual evidence.

 

[captaintrips]

Where is the evidence that LGBT are likely to be child molesters, as you are suggesting? Your entire argument is a correlation without causation fallacy. You are trying to like the molestation to LGBT people via the dates of the abuse happening without any actual evidence.

You are persistent & just won't give up. I like that ; )

The articles I did cite some pages back, you HAVE made me wonder about, question them.

I think you may be overreacting, maybe being like an over-protective mother, in defending gays on this though. Do you not admit that gays are as likely to engage in acts with children in statistically like, or closely similar numbers as other-sexuals ?

It seemed to ME that what another was saying earlier, suggested that gays would serve as protectors of minors from sex abuse !

Which is why I wrote # 629 ... put gays in the Vatican & all the catholic churches to protect kids from the clergy ... you didn't like that idea LOL It was just used to make a point ; )

I think a lot of gay people are as sick of the gaystapo types trying to force their lifestyle down everyones throats as many Evangelical Christians are. We're going to keep seeing more & more push-back and more and more negatives even in the national news about it. . . and we thought they just wanted to live quiet lives and be left alone ! .. most of them DO I think.

 

[calamity]

You are persistent & just won't give up. I like that ; )

The articles I did cite some pages back, you HAVE made me wonder about, question them.

I think you may be overreacting, maybe being like an over-protective mother, in defending gays on this though. Do you not admit that gays are as likely to engage in acts with children in statistically like, or closely similar numbers as other-sexuals ?

It seemed to ME that what another was saying earlier, suggested that gays would serve as protectors of minors from sex abuse !

Which is why I wrote # 629 ... put gays in the Vatican & all the catholic churches to protect kids from the clergy ... you didn't like that idea LOL It was just used to make a point ; )

I think a lot of gay people are as sick of the gaystapo types trying to force their lifestyle down everyones throats as many Evangelical Christians are. We're going to keep seeing more & more push-back and more and more negatives even in the national news about it. . . and we thought they just wanted to live quiet lives and be left alone ! .. most of them DO I think.

I'm not seeing much of the gay invasion other than the desire to live their lives like the rest of us. And, I see no reason why they should not be allowed to do just that.

 

[captaintrips]

I'm not seeing much of the gay invasion other than the desire to live their lives like the rest of us. And, I see no reason why they should not be allowed to do just that.

The Gaystopo is there ! They're going to kill or convert us all !! ; ) .. I get confused, maybe that's the hard-core Islamist ?

 

[calamity]

The Gaystopo is there ! They're going to kill or convert us all !! ; ) .. I get confused, maybe that's the hard-core Islamist ?

No, I'll admit that there are some nutty gay activists out there, especially when it comes to having an intelligent discussion about AIDS. But, they are a minority.

As for the majority, I see no reason why a gay person cannot aspire to be president, a parent, a husband/wife, teacher, whatever. Gay is just a sexual orientation. No big deal, IMO.

 

[captaintrips]

No, I'll admit that there are some nutty gay activists out there, especially when it comes to having an intelligent discussion about AIDS. But, they are a minority.

As for the majority, I see no reason why a gay person cannot aspire to be president, a parent, a husband/wife, teacher, whatever. Gay is just a sexual orientation. No big deal, IMO.

And most of us don't have a problem with that.

The real problems arise when the radicals - the Gaystapo - do radical stuff.

Radical stuff like go in search of a specifically Christian baker of floral arrangement creator to ask them to provide their creations for their gay weddings.

Even when there are ALWAYS plenty of other cake makers and floral designers in town that would be more than happy to provide services to them.

But no, they go specifically to these Christians businesses, so they can drag that business to court and sue them out of business etc.

To be fair, I would ask these Gaystopa folks to go find Muslim businesses to target & try this with.

They haven't ever targeted Islamic businesses though ... which you'd think they would be MORE highly motivated to do, given what Muslims do to gay people ! You'd think they want to put a stop to such things as gay people getting thrown off the roofs of tall buildings - you can likely still find online videos of this happening, it isn't a secret or anything LOL

But no, they go after Christian businesses only.

 

[calamity]

And most of us don't have a problem with that.

The real problems arise when the radicals - the Gaystapo - do radical stuff.

Radical stuff like go in search of a specifically Christian baker of floral arrangement creator to ask them to provide their creations for their gay weddings.

Even when there are ALWAYS plenty of other cake makers and floral designers in town that would be more than happy to provide services to them.

But no, they go specifically to these Christians businesses, so they can drag that business to court and sue them out of business etc.

To be fair, I would ask these Gaystopa folks to go find Muslim businesses to target & try this with.

They haven't ever targeted Islamic businesses though ... which you'd think they would be MORE highly motivated to do, given what Muslims do to gay people ! You'd think they want to put a stop to such things as gay people getting thrown off the roofs of tall buildings - you can likely still find online videos of this happening, it isn't a secret or anything LOL

Yeah, I never "got" the concept of asking someone who hates your guts to bake a cake you plan to eat. That's just ****ing nuts. If I'm getting married, the last thing I look for is drama.

 

[captaintrips]

Yeah, I never "got" the concept of asking someone who hates your guts to bake a cake you plan to eat. That's just ****ing nuts. If I'm getting married, the last thing I look for is drama.

Exactly LOL

That's like going to a fast food place and treating the teenage staff there badly and not expecting to get something yucky in your burger LOL

They probably think all Christians are good, nice and will just "take it." THAT is REALLY dumb !

 

[calamity]

Exactly LOL

That's like going to a fast food place and treating the teenage staff there badly and not expecting to get something yucky in your burger LOL

For sure. But, even if no one messes with their order, they are still bringing all sorts of negativity to what should be a joyous occasion.

I get wanting to make people conform to what someone believes is right. But, why do it on your wedding day? IMO, there are days when activism needs a day off. That day would be it.

 

[captaintrips]

For sure. But, even if no one messes with their order, they are still bringing all sorts of negativity to what should be a joyous occasion.

I get wanting to make people conform to what someone believes is right. But, why do it on your wedding day? IMO, there are days when activism needs a day off. That day would be it.

Agree.

The ones doing these things though, the "gaystapo" likely aren't all that interested in a joyous wedding and all that.

They're mostly interested in causing trouble to those "damn Christians who believe that Bible stuff"...

... they hate that. Motivated by hate, not love.

Show us the love gay people, leave the damn Christians alone ! - they're sinners too, some of the worst, so why give them more trouble than they have already ??

 

[Quag]

Agree.

The ones doing these things though, the "gaystapo" likely aren't all that interested in a joyous wedding and all that.

They're mostly interested in causing trouble to those "damn Christians who believe that Bible stuff"...

... they hate that. Motivated by hate, not love.Show us the love gay people, leave the damn Christians alone ! - they're sinners too, some of the worst, so why give them more trouble than they have already ??

Bolded is rather ironic

 

[Lisa]

Agree.

The ones doing these things though, the "gaystapo" likely aren't all that interested in a joyous wedding and all that.

They're mostly interested in causing trouble to those "damn Christians who believe that Bible stuff"...

... they hate that. Motivated by hate, not love.

Show us the love gay people, leave the damn Christians alone ! - they're sinners too, some of the worst, so why give them more trouble than they have already ??

It would be refreshing if conservative Christians followed the teachings of the person who they claim to be the son of god and their personal savior instead of cherry-picking passages of the Old Testament that don't apply to them merely because they can hide their bigotry behind the religious freedoms and somehow make it protected and socially acceptable. The fact that these Christians don't obey all of Leviticus is very obvious.

https://pics.me.me/i-do-whatever-the-bible-tells-me-to-except-for-6687601.png




Jesus was not a hateful bigot who supported discrimination.
Matthew 7:1.

Matthew 7:1-3 King James Version (KJV)

7 Judge not, that ye be not judged.

2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.

3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?

Matthew 7:12

In the King James Version of the Bible the text reads: Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you: do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets. ... shall also do to them; for this is the law and the prophets.

Luke 6:31.

Luke 6:31 New International Version (NIV)

31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.

 

[captaintrips]

It would be refreshing if conservative Christians followed the teachings of the person who they claim to be the son of god and their personal savior instead of cherry-picking passages of the Old Testament that don't apply to them merely because they can hide their bigotry behind the religious freedoms and somehow make it protected and socially acceptable. The fact that these Christians don't obey all of Leviticus is very obvious.

https://pics.me.me/i-do-whatever-the-bible-tells-me-to-except-for-6687601.png

Jesus was not a hateful bigot who supported discrimination.
Matthew 7:1.
Matthew 7:12
Luke 6:31.

Yes yes yes, attack & complain, criticize Christians .. it's popular & trendy to do it ; )

As I already pointed out;

"Show us the love gay people, leave the damn Christians alone ! - they're sinners too, some of the worst, so why give them more trouble than they have already ??"

They're hypocrites just like everyone else too, that's nothing new ... sorry if I turned this into an apologetics thread, that wasn't my intention ...

 

[Lisa]

Yes yes yes, attack & complain, criticize Christians .. it's popular & trendy to do it ; )

As I already pointed out;

"Show us the love gay people, leave the damn Christians alone ! - they're sinners too, some of the worst, so why give them more trouble than they have already ??"

They're hypocrites just like everyone else too, that's nothing new ... sorry if I turned this into an apologetics thread, that wasn't my intention ...

Christians don't get a pass on being called out on their hypocrisy just because of our religious freedoms. I'm not picking on all Christians because there are many sects that aren't homophobic or transphobic bigots.

I'm not singling out Christians only because I don't give any other religions a pass either.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Yes yes yes, attack & complain, criticize Christians .. it's popular & trendy to do it ; )

As I already pointed out;

"Show us the love gay people, leave the damn Christians alone ! - they're sinners too, some of the worst, so why give them more trouble than they have already ??"

They're hypocrites just like everyone else too, that's nothing new ... sorry if I turned this into an apologetics thread, that wasn't my intention ...

She's correct to point out the hypocrisy of lip-service Christians or people who are only Christians when it's convenient. She's wrong to claim all Christians are like that.

That said, I can see why someone who only knows Christians from this forum would believe most "Christians" are bigots, hypocrites and liars.

 

[captaintrips]

She's correct to point out the hypocrisy of lip-service Christians or people who are only Christians when it's convenient. She's wrong to claim all Christians are like that.

That said, I can see why someone who only knows Christians from this forum would believe most "Christians" are bigots, hypocrites and liars.

Right, all Christians aren't like that. They're all very different.

And everybodye has their own preferred ways of interpreting reality. Interpreting religious scriptures & texts are even MORE wide open to differing interpretings, given how many sects & denominations there are even in other religions !

This mode of communication does have certain limits & challenges that probably make it too easy to incorrectly judge one another by.

 

[captaintrips]

Christians don't get a pass on being called out on their hypocrisy just because of our religious freedoms. I'm not picking on all Christians because there are many sects that aren't homophobic or transphobic bigots.

I'm not singling out Christians only because I don't give any other religions a pass either.

I agree.

I don't necessarily think it's correct to call people who aren't on board with radical gay or trans activism, bigots, BUT hypocrites, ...that's part of being human.

I was pointing out the current cultural popularity of attacking Christians though, I do agree that in so many ways, we've brought it upon ourselves.