[W:348] nearly 1-10 teens identify gender diverse: pittsburgh study

[Maccabee]

Or ma

New study out of a PA school district shows 10% of high school kids ID as gender non conforming and 6% of all the HS kids in that district ID as transgender. While the studies author expected it to be a higher percentage, that seems a surprisingly high number.

Like the swedes found, I suspect a social contagion is occurring. Non binary and trans is the new fad pushed by some sections of our society.

Nearly 1 in 10 teens identify as gender-diverse in Pittsburgh study

The figure is vastly higher than the roughly 2 percent cited in most national estimates.

www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org

Or maybe transgender and non binary people aren't as oppressed in PA as they are in other states and feel more open about their identity.

 

[buck]

Or ma

Or maybe transgender and non binary people aren't as oppressed in PA as they are in other states and feel more open about their identity.

Well, the researchers said they expect similar in other states too. And, it's possible you are right, but the high desistance levels for kids that ID as trans is really-really high. So, it gives me some pause on that being the reason. I make no guarantees, though.

 

[Lisa]

Well, the researchers said they expect similar in other states too. And, it's possible you are right, but the high desistance levels for kids that ID as trans is really-really high. So, it gives me some pause on that being the reason. I make no guarantees, though.

You continue to make this claim but as of yet you haven't provided objective medical supported proof to support any of these claims. All the information that I have seen shows a destsitance rate in the single digits.

 

[buck]

You continue to make this claim but as of yet you haven't provided objective medical supported proof to support any of these claims. All the information that I have seen shows a destsitance rate in the single digits.

I posted a piece of a published study showing well over 80% desistance for kids by the time they turn 21. You ignore it, and you are absolutely entitled to do so. That copy paste function can be tough for some. Shrug.

 

[Lisa]

I posted a piece of a published study showing well over 80% desistance for kids by the time they turn 21. You ignore it, and you are absolutely entitled to do so. That copy paste function can be tough for some. Shrug.

If they were children or even teens then they never fully trasntioned, so they could not have logically desisted what they never were. Questioniung their gender and then stopping the program or even taking low does of blockers or hormones doesn't mean that they were ever fully transitioned. Once again you are playing fast and loose with the facts to suit your own conservtive agenda.

 

[buck]

If they were children or even teens then they never fully trasntioned, so they could not have logically desisted what they never were.

from the study. They are classified as desiters, because that is what they are:

Of the 139 participants, 17 (12%) were classified as persisters and the remaining 122 (88%) were classified as desisters.

Once again you are playing fast and loose with the facts to suit your own conservtive agenda.

Apparently science is part of the "conservative agenda". Scary.

I probably wont respond to you anymore, and just let you tilt at those windmills.

 

[buck]

If they were children or even teens then they never fully trasntioned, so they could not have logically desisted what they never were. Questioniung their gender and then stopping the program or even taking low does of blockers or hormones doesn't mean that they were ever fully transitioned. Once again you are playing fast and loose with the facts to suit your own conservtive agenda.

I recalled you posted a link that you probably didn't even read that entirely disagrees with you. Lol. Well done.

Desistence​

Puberty is a highly important time for people coming to an understanding of their gender identity. A significant fraction of individuals who are gender nonconforming in childhood may end up identifying as gay, lesbian, bisexual, or another sexual minority rather than as transgender late adolescents and adults.

This is generally referred to as desistance rather than detransition.

80% is one hell of a significant fraction. Four fifths.

 

[Lisa]

from the study. They are classified as desiters, because that is what they are:






Apparently science is part of the "conservative agenda". Scary.

I probably wont respond to you anymore, and just let you tilt at those windmills.

Thank you for posting that. At no time did it say that they were required to take mediction or required to transition. This is entirely driven by the patient. Drs or psychologists dont talk patients into taking medication of any sort.

Do you understand this?

rom Wallien and Cohen-Kettenis (52) and Steensma et al. (51), one predictor of outcome, therefore, was the distinction between being threshold or subthreshold for the GID diagnosis in childhood. Dimensional measures of gender-variant behavior have also proven useful. In both Wallien and Cohen-Kettenis and Steensma et al., dimensional measures of sex-typed behavior in childhood also significantly discriminated between the persisters and desisters, with the former group having, on average, more severe gender-variant behavior at the time of the childhood assessment. Steensma et al. found two other predictors of persistence: boys who were assessed at an older age and boys who had made either a partial or complete gender “social transition” [see (68–70)]. Of the 12 boys who had partially or completely transitioned prior to puberty, 10 (83.3%) were classified as persisters. In contrast, of the 67 boys who had not socially transitioned, only 13 (19.4%) were classified as persisters.

 

[CLAX1911]

I posted a piece of a published study showing well over 80% desistance for kids by the time they turn 21. You ignore it, and you are absolutely entitled to do so. That copy paste function can be tough for some. Shrug.

It's inconvenient. There was also a lot of work done to understand autogynophilia but that is taboo now as well.

 

[buck]

It's inconvenient. There was also a lot of work done to understand autogynophilia but that is taboo now as well.

I had always heard genesis p-orridge had that. I dont know that its true, or as common as some claim. But I have no real idea.

But, i do know that Genesis had some great music both before and after transition, though I prefer the pre.

 

[Lisa]

It's inconvenient. There was also a lot of work done to understand autogynophilia but that is taboo now as well.

Autogynophilia has been debunked.

Conclusion​

The researchers conclude:

Overall, the results of this study could provide no evidence for the hypothesis that sexual behavior, desire, and psychosexual experience differ substantially in gynephilic and androphilic trans women. Although there were differences among the groups (especially between exclusively gynephilic and androphilic trans women), of which some could be interpreted to be in line with Blanchard's theory of autogynephilia, the overall impression gained from the data of this study is that sexuality among the collective was very diverse.

And this is, as far as I see it, the most important lesson to be learned: Blanchard's theory is reductionist to the point of being absurd. The model requires that the two groups of transgender women are clearly distinct and with little or no overlap. The German study proves that there is only small differences between the groups and a lot of overlap. In other words: Blanchard's theory has been falsified. From a scientific point of view it is dead.

This does not mean that you cannot discuss the differences between lesbian, straight and bisexual transgender women, in the same way you can discuss the differences between lesbian, straight and bisexual cis women. Of course you can! But what this and other studies show, is that you cannot use these differences to sort trans women into two distinct categories as far as what causes their gender dysphoria goes.

Given the significant overlap with cisgender sexualities you cannot use these differences to classify one group of trans women on the basis of a "paraphilia", either. Cis women also masturbate, have autoerotic fantasies and get turned on by being perceived as sexually attractive.

I often say that trans people are as just as likely to have a sexual kink as cis people, but you cannot reduce their identity to that kink. A woman who likes BDSM is still a woman, regardless of whether she is cis or trans.

The Autogynephilia Theory Debunked by New German Study

On people who dream about being another gender – on transgender, non-binary, crossdresser, crossdreamer and queer issues

www.crossdreamers.com

 

[buck]

Thank you for posting that. At no time did it say that they were required to take mediction or required to transition. This is entirely driven by the patient. Drs or psychologists dont talk patients into taking medication of any sort.

Do you understand this?

Yes, I always quoted steensmas study showing 60 plus percent desisted and that he said he expected higher percentage if the study continued to older age. He was right over 20 percent more.

Now. His study was well before the current affirmation model and use of puberty blockers. And even with all the the "gatekeeping", nearly 90 percent desisted. Ouch.

 

[bomberfox]

Right, this is disproportionately higher than listed percentages of "true transgenders" (which have been listed as significantly less than 1% of the population), proving the perverse media influence and coaching children is responsible for these high statistics, rather than any actual genetic or medical need.

There is no actual coaching. This has been studied in the 1930s before your ilk took over.

 

[bomberfox]

What's the "harm" in experimenting with fads such as hard drug use (e.x. crack cocaine, methamphetamine), self-harm such as anorexia or self-mutilation, and so on?

Lol.... do you think yourself brave for spilling all the horseshit you do?

 

[bomberfox]

No, the actual scientists who matter do, only some irrelevant and easily debunkable deniers don't. "Science" (as in natural science), is just one of many diverse intellectual fields to begin with, and doesn't have the authority of the law and legal philosophy to begin with - undereducated people often just use "science" as a popular buzzword or "argument from authority" without actually knowing what they're talking about.

I'm Mensan, so I know what I'm talking about, of course.

Ok boomer.

 

[buck]

Autogynophilia has been debunked.

The Autogynephilia Theory Debunked by New German Study

On people who dream about being another gender – on transgender, non-binary, crossdresser, crossdreamer and queer issues

www.crossdreamers.com

Not sure thats a strong debunk. But not sure i care either. Adults do whatever, for all I care.

From the study, some could support Blanchard theory.

Although there were differences among the groups (especially between exclusively gynephilic and androphilic trans women), of which some could be interpreted to be in line with Blanchard's theory of autogynephilia, the overall impression gained from the data of this study is that sexuality among the collective was very diverse.

 

[Lisa]

Yes, I always quoted steensmas study showing 60 plus percent desisted and that he said he expected higher percentage if the study continued to older age. He was right over 20 percent more.

Now. His study was well before the current affirmation model and use of puberty blockers. And even with all the the "gatekeeping", nearly 90 percent desisted. Ouch.

You still don't get it. Those children who socially transtioned and did it without blockers and hormones were persisters. You seem to have this idea that socvial transition is driven by the psychologists in some wierd and twisted treatrment , but that is absoiluty not true.

Would you rather that tars teens be denied care and suffer instead? You seem to be the type to deny them transgendered madical care and then claim that trans people are inherent mentally ill because of the high sucide rate due to the poor outcomes, delayed and denied care or even attempts at reparative therapy. You just want to focus on the teens who were never trans and desisted, but you cannot desist if you never transitioned, even socially before medication.

 

[buck]

Would you rather that tars teens be denied care and suffer instead?

The reality is that there were far less kids claiming to be trans and they were facing push back and not.simply affirmed. Even with that, nearly 90 percent desisted.

There is now a large increase of kids claiming to be trans with majorities being affirmed. I would absolutely recommend more info be obtained before impacting kids for life that are likely to desist.

 

[Lisa]

The reality is that there were far less kids claiming to be trans and they were facing push back and not.simply affirmed. Even with that, still nearly 90 percent desisted.

There is now an over 4000 percent increase of kids claiming to be trans with majorities being affirmed. I would absolutely recommend more info be obtained before impacting kids that are likely to desist for life.

If they never socially transitioned then they were never trans to begin with. They may have had some gender questioning, or they could be non-binary but they were never trans and they were never forced to take blockers/hormones. Nobody is pushing kids to be trans.

You are looking for anything that supports your tranphobic bias and then you plan to use that bias to make it harder for trans teens to get the necessary care until it is too late that it negativity affects the outcome and quality of life. Life is hard enough for people who are transgendered. You dont get to maker it harder for thjem because of your trans phobic bias because the process isn't perfect or without risk. Nothing in life is perfect and you are neither a Dr or a psychologist.

How many more dead trans kids will it take to make you happy because they can't get the care they need?


BTW. You still have not told me how you think that a psychologist transitions a patent. I'm eagerly waiting for that statement from you.

 

[CLAX1911]

Autogynophilia has been debunked.

The Autogynephilia Theory Debunked by New German Study

On people who dream about being another gender – on transgender, non-binary, crossdresser, crossdreamer and queer issues

www.crossdreamers.com

Sure. No doubt you would agree with that.

 

[Aristaeus]

Gender non-conforming = boys who like dancing and girls who like trucks.

 

[buck]

If they never socially transitioned then they were never trans to begin with. They may have had some gender questioning, or they could be non-binary but they were never trans and they were never forced to take blockers/hormones. Nobody is pushing kids to be trans.

You are looking for anything that supports your tranphobic bias and then you plan to use that bias to make it harder for trans teens to get the necessary care until it is too late that it negativity affects the outcome and quality of life. Life is hard enough for people who are transgendered. You dont get to maker it harder for thjem because of your trans phobic bias because the process isn't perfect or without risk. Nothing in life is perfect and you are neither a Dr or a psychologist.

How many more dead trans kids will it take to make you happy because they can't get the care they need?


BTW. You still have not told me how you think that a psychologist transitions a patent. I'm eagerlly waiting for that statement from you.

Nearly 90% of trans kids desist by 21yo. Study you linked to and published in 2020 points out they are seeing an increase in desistance in kids and in actual detransitions due to regret.

There are many other warning signs, enough so that far more liberal countries are changing how they treat dysphoric kids. Anyway. Really done at this point. We've both pretty much said it all.

 

[Lisa]

Nearly 90% of trans kids desist by 21yo. Study you linked to and published in 2020 points out they are seeing an increase in desistance in kids and in actual detransitions due to regret.

There are many other warning signs, enough so that far more liberal countries are changing how they treat dysphoric kids. Anyway. Really done at this point. We've both pretty much said it all.

Those teens were never trans to begin with. How many of those who desisted were ever on any dose of hormones? The study said that most of the teens who resisted never socially transitioned. They were suspected to be trans and accepted into the clinic but it seems very obvious from the start that they were never trans if they never even changed their wardrobe or hairstyles. How many of them ever had the carry letter from their primary psychologist? The people in the study seem to be playing fast and loose with the diagnosis of being transgdered because most of these kids never took the first steps. They saw a gender therapist and never made any progress toward transitioning on their own. Logically a person cannot be transgendered and then desist if they never even socially transitioned to begin with, which for teens is done without any medication such as hormones or blockers. The fact that they may have attended a few appointments with a gender therapist doesn't automatically make them transgdered by default.

I suspect that many of them might turn out to be non-binary or gay/bi/lesbian instead. There are some that likely saw it as a fashion but quickly discovered that it wasn't for them. How many were hiding other mental health issues by trying to be trans and run away from them? All of those issues should have been tested for and probed and then eliminated before the therapist ever made the diagnosis of them being transgendered. Their phycologist can not start to help them understand their gender issues if the patient has untreated anxiety or depression. Preexisting mental health must be addressed before hormones are added to the mix because the hormones and blockers have mental health effects of their own, some positive and occasionally some negative. There are some mental health problems that can rule out or prevent someone from being transgender such as psychopathy, borderline personality, and extreme narcissism.

 

[cpwill]

New study out of a PA school district shows 10% of high school kids ID as gender non conforming and 6% of all the HS kids in that district ID as transgender. While the studies author expected it to be a higher percentage, that seems a surprisingly high number.

Like the swedes found, I suspect a social contagion is occurring. Non binary and trans is the new fad pushed by some sections of our society.

Yup. Make something a source of status, and people will claim it.

 

[Lisa]

Yup. Make something a source of status, and people will claim it.

How is being transgendered a source of status when transgendered people are commonly discriminated against, have a much higher chance of being the victim of a violent crime, often cannot find work in their field, are often ostracized from their family and commonly have $100K in medical bills that aren't covered by insurance because they were born transgender? I've never understood that idea that seems to be a conservative talking point. Is being LGB also a status enhancer. Could you please post this social hierarchy chart because none of my trans friends will tell me about it.