[W:293]Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

[Wan]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

More than half ( about 2/3) of all fertilized human eggs do not implant of self abort within the first week of implant ion.

Spontaneous abortions ( miscarriages ) occur in 15 to 20 percent of known pregnancies ( where the woman is aware she is pregnant.

There are also septic abortions where the fetus died of a septic infection and needs to removed.

And missed abortion which are natural deaths of the fetus when the fetus did not expel on its own.

These do not qualify as abortion.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

Eggs and sperm are cells, not organisms.

they are alive and they are human (adj)

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

These do not qualify as abortion.

more entertainment!
based on facts definitions and medical science they do

 

[Lursa]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

These do not qualify as abortion.

We do not look to you for the definition of terms. You have proven unable to even use the term 'murder' correctly.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

Technically that is not abortion. I am not sure what it is called, probably the removal of medical waste. Abortion refers to the killing of a live fetus.

It is called an abortion.

Even delivery or a c-section of a non-viable fetus is called an abortion and it is included in the US abortion stats.

From the following:

There is a false belief that induction of labor early for a lethal anomaly is not an abortion. It is.

The end.

If you have not done abortions at or after 24 weeks or referred a woman for an abortion at or after 24 weeks you are not an expert on the subject
....
First of all, a c-section for an early delivery of a non-viable fetus is still an abortion. #TheMoreYouKnow.

That people don’t grasp this is shocking. And why these discussions are best left to experts who don’t impose their own religion on patients.

Abortions at or after 24 weeks are sometimes needed medically. Anyone who says otherwise is wrong. | Dr. Jen Gunter

 

[Wan]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

It is called an abortion.

Even delivery or a c-section of a non-viable fetus is called an abortion and it is included in the US abortion stats.

Then what is your definition of abortion? The way I understand it, abortion refers to deliberate, human attempt to end the life of a live fetus.

The fact an unborn died does not mean abortion has occurred.

 

[jmotivator]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

LMAO please stop with that retarded strawman . . . human has nothing to do with it. its factually wrong because of its wording.

that is FACTUALLY wrong because an abortion is a medical procedure used to end pregnancy. The life of the human plays ZERO role in the definition of abortion and sometimes an abortion is performed when the HUMAN entity is already dead and sometimes the HUMAN lives hences laws about that when it happens.

so again the reality is #1 is 100% factually wrong. This fact will not change based on your feelings or any strawmen . . definitions and reality make it so.

Nope, when you reach the point where 95+% of the time the statement is accurate, your exception is just proving the rule.

What are the chances, you think, of an randomly selected induced abortion was performed on a baby that had died of natural causes? Do you think the odds are better or worse than the odds that a randomly selected abortion ended the life of a pregnant woman?

Moreover, do you know of anyone that opposes aborting babies that have died of natural causes?

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

1.) Then what is your definition of abortion?
2.) The way I understand it, abortion refers to deliberate, human attempt to end the life of a live fetus.
3.)The fact an unborn died does not mean abortion has occurred.

1.) that actual and factual one determined by definitions and medical science. See in america we just dont make definitions up lol
2.) and thats why you"understanding" is factual wrong
3.) WOW . . . one will have to or the mother will die too . .

 

[Wan]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

A medical procedure to remove a fetus that is already dead is technically not abortion.

 

[prometeus]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

Yes the fetus is an organism.

From the moment of conception.

What makes it so? Do you even have a clue what is an organism and what characteristics it has?

 

[Irredentist]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

Ok, then, how about I do it a different way and ask you a question:

Why do you think the killing of a human being is not wrong? Note I am not asking you whether it can be justified under certain circumstances.

My own opinion on whether killing is wrong is irrelevant. Your post on abortion is a moralistic, emotional argument which you have attempted to disguise as a rational, scientific one. That is what I take issue with.

 

[jmotivator]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

More than half ( about 2/3) of all fertilized human eggs do not implant of self abort within the first week of implant ion.

Spontaneous abortions ( miscarriages ) occur in 15 to 20 percent of known pregnancies ( where the woman is aware she is pregnant.

There are also septic abortions where the fetus died of a septic infection and needs to removed.

And missed abortion which are natural deaths of the fetus when the fetus did not expel on its own.

We are talking about induced abortions, not miscarriages.

And what is the percentage of abortions that are performed on babies that died of natural causes?

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

1.)Nope, when you reach the point where 95+% of the time the statement is accurate, your exception is just proving the rule.
2.)What are the chances, you think, of an randomly selected induced abortion was performed on a baby that had died of natural causes? Do you think the odds are better or worse than the odds that a randomly selected abortion ended the life of a pregnant woman?

Awesome!! more entertainment denial and lies!

1.) facts and definitions dont care about your feelings and thats all you posted here
2.) again meaningless to facts and definitions

once again, read it slow

so these are your options:
A.) If you have something that changes this fact by all means please provided but we already know there is nothing so this one is out
B.) post with honesty and integrity admit your mistake, except the facts and move on
c.) continue to deny it and or deflect providing more entertainment for the rest of us

the best part is, no matter your choice, the reality remains #1 is factually wrong

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

A medical procedure to remove a fetus that is already dead is technically not abortion.

Facts and definitions disagree with you :shrug:

maybe in your country its different but not here in the states

 

[jmotivator]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

Awesome!! more entertainment denial and lies!

1.) facts and definitions dont care about your feelings and thats all you posted here
2.) again meaningless to facts and definitions

"The abortion ended a living human's life"

... In what percentage of abortions is that statement true?

once again, read it slow

so these are your options:
A.) If you have something that changes this fact by all means please provided but we already know there is nothing so this one is out
B.) post with honesty and integrity admit your mistake, except the facts and move on
c.) continue to deny it and or deflect providing more entertainment for the rest of us

the best part is, no matter your choice, the reality remains #1 is factually wrong

Nope. In the vast majority of abortions the statement is factually correct.

 

[Wan]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

What makes it so? Do you even have a clue what is an organism and what characteristics it has?

The scientific authorities decided that the ZEF is an organism, not me.

My own opinion on whether killing is wrong is irrelevant. Your post on abortion is a moralistic, emotional argument which you have attempted to disguise as a rational, scientific one. That is what I take issue with.

My logical form is definitely valid. It may or may not be sound, depending on whether one feels that the deliberate killing of a live human is wrong.

 

[AGENT J]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

"The abortion ended a living human's life"

... In what percentage of abortions is that statement true?



Nope. In the vast majority of abortions the statement is factually correct.

Awesome so you choose C!!!! LOVE IT!

Facts/definitions > percentages, your feelings and or retarded straw men

so these are your options:
A.) If you have something that changes this fact by all means please provided but we already know there is nothing so this one is out
B.) post with honesty and integrity admit your mistake, except the facts and move on
c.) continue to deny it and or deflect providing more entertainment for the rest of us

let us know, thanks!

 

[Logician Man]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

Your post that I first responded to labeled the whole argument opinion, which it clearly was not.

Yes I made a mistake regarding #3. You also made mistakes and false accusations, as well as failed to support your claim 'it's just science.' People are fallible. ....moving on.....

 

[minnie616]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

We are talking about induced abortions, not miscarriages.

And what is the percentage of abortions that are performed on babies that died of natural causes?

You did not specify induced abortion.

Between my 2ed and 3rd child I miscarried a little one when I was about 20 weeks pregnant.

My husband and I and our two young children were looking forward to a new addition to our family.

I started having major contractions when I was about 20 weeks pregnant.

My doctor was out of town so my husband drove me to the ER in hopes they could stop the contractions and I could continue my pregnancy and have a healthy little one.

The nurse at the ER had me take a pregnancy test and told us I was no longer pregnant, my little one had died within me.

The doctor who was covering for my doctor either could not or did not want to come to the hospital that night so he told the nurse to give me medicine to stop the contractions. He said he would be in the next day to give me the abortion to remove the dead fetus.

Later when the nurse and aide were taking me to my bed for the night as I was transferring from the gurney to my bed the fetus was expelled and I accidentally saw my little one and how malformed it was.

My doctor later me that even if I carried it longer it never would lived.

He said it was so malformed that pathology could not even tell if was a boy or a girl.

 

[Wan]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

You did not specify induced abortion.

Between my 2ed and 3rd child I miscarried a little one when I was about 20 weeks pregnant.

My husband and I and our two young children were looking forward to a new addition to our family.

I started having major contractions when I was about 20 weeks pregnant.

My doctor was out of town so my husband drove me to the ER in hopes they could stop the contractions and I could continue my pregnancy and have a healthy little one.

The nurse at the ER had me take a pregnancy test and told us I was no longer pregnant, it had died within me.

The doctor who was covering for my doctor either could not or did not want to come to the hospital that night so he told the nurse to give me medicine to stop the contractions. He said he would be in the next day to give me the abortion to remove the dead fetus.

Later when the nurse and aide were taking me to my bed for the night as I was transferring from the gurney to my bed the fetus was expelled and I accidentally saw my little one and how malformed it was.

My doctor later me that even if I carried it longer it never would lived.

He said it was so malformed that pathology could not even tell if was a boy or a girl.

I think his point is that miscarriage does not count as real abortion.

 

[minnie616]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

I think his point is that miscarriage does not count as real abortion.

Miscarriages are abortions they are spontaneous abortions.

They are real abortions.

Also when a doctor has to remove the dead fetus either by inducing labor , a cesecton or a perform a D & E it is an abortion.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

The scientific authorities decided that the ZEF is an organism, not me.



My logical form is definitely valid. It may or may not be sound, depending on whether one feels that the deliberate killing of a live human is wrong.

Is it valid, shall we test that?

It is a woman's body. Therefore she has a right to choose what happens to it.

Just valid or a sound proposition.

While thinking about that also keep in mind this proposition.

It is a man's body. Therefore he has a right to decide whether he will donate a kidney or not.

 

[Wan]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

Miscarriages are abortions they are spontaneous abortions.

Also when a doctor has to remove the dead fetus either by inducing labor , a cesecton or a perform a D & E it is an abortion.

I don't claim to know how the medical community defines abortion, but from what I know, a doctor removing a dead fetus is not abortion. Abortion only happens to fetuses that are alive.

Is it valid, shall we test that?

It is a woman's body. Therefore she has a right to choose what happens to it.

Just valid or a sound proposition.

While thinking about that also keep in mind this proposition.

It is a man's body. Therefore he has a right to decide whether he will donate a kidney or not.

When I said "valid", I was referring to my logical form. I was not talking about "propositions". In fact I made no such a reference whatsoever.

 

[soylentgreen]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

I don't claim to know how the medical community defines abortion, but from what I know, a doctor removing a dead fetus is not abortion. Abortion only happens to fetuses that are alive.



When I said "valid", I was referring to my logical form. I was not talking about "propositions". In fact I made no such a reference whatsoever.

This also refers to your logical form. You seem to forget that there are two in your argument , the woman as well as the life within her.

Or is it the case that you are implying by your argument that a woman has no say or that there is no reason to consider the woman in a pregnancy?

 

[jmotivator]

Re: Abortion is the deliberate killing of a live human

You did not specify induced abortion.

Shouldn't really have to since the whole point of the anti-abortion movement is to end the willful killing of the unborn... by design the movement doesn't apply to babies that are already dead.