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[W:2270] Does a Gun Make Your Home Safer?

ataraxia said:
Not really. What makes you say that?
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Because the only people who would register firearms are those who won't be committing crimes with those firearms. What use is that data?
 
ataraxia said:
Yet we’re not safer than those countries that don’t uses many firearms.

It’s like looking at a war zone and concluding that because guns are used defensively so frequently there, then a war zone should be the safest place to live.
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Well actually we ARE safer than many countries that don't have as many firearms. At points in time, the UK with far fewer firearms.. had a much higher violent crime rate than the US.

However.. your assumption that we should be safer than other countries that don;t have as many firearms is an erroneous assumption. For example the co worker who used a firearm to thwart a rapist? She wasn;t raped.. but the person simply found another victim that was no armed.

There certainly are enough potential unarmed victims in the US. available for criminals for them to simply switch targets to a more vulnerable one.
 
ataraxia said:
Not really. What makes you say that?
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The only people that would obey the law and register their firearms.. would be the ones that you don;t have to worry about.. because they obey the law.

You anti gunners are so silly. Frankly it exposes your real agenda and your real paranoia. You are not afraid of criminals.. you are paranoid about firearms.. and thus you fear a firearm being in the hands of a law abiding citizen.
 
jaeger19 said:
And that would be a hyperbolic lie.
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He just said without full compliance, registration can’t work.

You are either lying about my lying or you are replying to the wrong post.
 
Lursa said:
Please post that quote or post number...or stop lying.
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I already have . We are playing the same game you played. In that he asks for things ,I give him his answer and then he pretends it did not happen. He already has the post number as this is not the first time it has been asked for.


The quote he gave has nothing to do with the fact that you have already made claim that you leave a gun unsecured, unattended and loaded. What lie is there in that?
 
Aunt Antifa said:
He just said without full compliance, registration can’t work.
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It can't work to stop crime. If the goal is actually gun confiscation, which I believe you're for, then creating the ability to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens counts as "works".
Aunt Antifa said:
You are either lying about my lying or you are replying to the wrong post.
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You said "You are literally insisting there can be no gun laws whatsoever."

That's the hyperbole in question.
 
Aunt Antifa said:
Read what and weep? It’s referencing a stat in *another report*. So that report isn’t a CDC report, what is it and can you provide me the “yahtzee” you’re sighing about so confidently?
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Let me get this straight .. a report, entitled Firearm Violence Prevention, has been published on cdc.gov and that's not the CDC or CDC acceptance?
 
jaeger19 said:
Who says her weapon is unsecured. A loaded weapon in .her house is secured by virtue of being in her house.
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No her case is she leaves the gun out in the open in easy reach. Where as any guide to safety will point out that is an unsafe practice. Secured means a locked secured container. It also means that gun and ammo are kept secured in separate locked secured containers. Keeping a loaded gun unsecured and unattended is not safe practice.
 
Lursa said:
And his claim throughout the thread is that guns are only safe if 'secured' and locked up.

So according to him, no matter what the manuals say about safely (properly as you write) using them, they're wrong. The classic 4 rules of gun safety, according to him, are wrong. 🤷

So, "his" chosen safety instructions are 'right' and all the other safety instructions are wrong. :rolleyes:
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No that is not the claim at all. That is just pure dishonesty on your part. You have deliberately left out the key factor of leaving the gun unattended and loaded.

The manual if you ever bother to read it has different safety rules for handling a gun. But the argument here is about leaving a gun Unattended, unsecured and loaded not about how to be safe while using a gun.

I doubt the difference between handling a gun and leaving a gun unattended is so complex you struggle to see the difference so can only assume that lacking any good reason for your bad behaviour with a gun is the reason you have made this dishonest claim.
 
jotathought said:
Let me get this straight .. a report, entitled Firearm Violence Prevention, has been published on cdc.gov and that's not the CDC or CDC acceptance?
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Why are you asking me when your own blurb states precisely what the source is and where you can click on it to purchase if you’d like to read further into a report you know you haven’t read? You said it was a CDC report, it is not. It’s okay to admit you got that part wrong, it’s still a report that might back your argument.

If you had actually clicked on it and read it.
 
Rucker61 said:
It can't work to stop crime. If the goal is actually gun confiscation, which I believe you're for, then creating the ability to confiscate guns from law abiding citizens counts as "works".

You said "You are literally insisting there can be no gun laws whatsoever."

That's the hyperbole in question.
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Same difference, thanks for playing and admitting i was right.
 
Aunt Antifa said:
Same difference, thanks for playing and admitting i was right.
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But I haven't admitted that you are right. The only people who would register guns are those who won't use their guns to commit crimes.

We already know that you want to confiscate all guns, or as many as you can get. You just can't get anyone with any power to sign on to your plan.
 
Rucker61 said:
But I haven't admitted that you are right. The only people who would register guns are those who won't use their guns to commit crimes.

We already know that you want to confiscate all guns, or as many as you can get. You just can't get anyone with any power to sign on to your plan.
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Not all. Just yours.
 
bluesmoke said:
You have no credibility. You accuse others of not caring for children's safety, but can't provide evidence of what you say that pretends to justify your allegation. You're a dishonest debater. Put up the evidence or shut up and go away.
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I'll take your asinine accusations with a grain of salt. You have an anti-gun fetish.
 
jaeger19 said:
What upsets me is peoples flippant disregard for women's safety concerns.
And I believe you were the one that claimed her carrying a firearm should be illegal.
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Can you point out the part where I said it should be illegal? I may have said I see no good reason to have a gun on you outside of your house but I'm pretty sure I didn't say it should be illegal.
 
jaeger19 said:
Well..what are you doing?
I don't want to rely on my dog to save my wife or children or my life. That doesn't seem like a good bet to me.
But that's fine for you. Just don't try to pass laws preventing me from being able to defend myself and family.
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And now for the hundredth time, this is why I don't like discussing guns with second amendment folks because it always comes down to this, just don't try to pass laws preventing me from being able to defend myself and family...as if a gun is the only way you can do either.

Once again, any suggestion about gun control is an attack on the second amendment as far as gun folks are concerned, they want zero changes unless of course that change includes having actual assault weapons, that would be fine.
 
ataraxia said:
Do you have any sources for this? I only see this:

www.nationmaster.com

United Kingdom vs United States: Crime > Violent crime Facts and Stats

Murder rate per million people, Murders per million people, Murders, Intentional homicide rate, Murder rate
www.nationmaster.com
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Yep:

We thought Bier’s points were reasonable, so we tried to replicate his approach. We looked at the raw violent crime numbers for each country, using statistics for England and Wales for 2012 and for the United States for 2011, in a way that sought to compare apples to apples. (We should note that the United Kingdom includes Scotland and Northern Ireland, but the numbers in the meme appear to be based only on crime in England and Wales, which are calculated separately.)

For England and Wales, we added together three crime categories: "violence against the person, with injury," "most serious sexual crime," and "robbery." This produced a rate of 775 violent crimes per 100,000 people.

For the United States, we used the FBI’s four standard categories for violent crime that Bier cited. We came up with a rate of 383 violent crimes per 100,000 people.
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https://www.politifact.com/factchec...-media-post-says-uk-has-far-higher-violent-c/
 
bongsaway said:
Can you point out the part where I said it should be illegal? I may have said I see no good reason to have a gun on you outside of your house but I'm pretty sure I didn't say it should be illegal.
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Did you not say there should be penalties for people for carrying a gun for no good reason?
Bongsaway:
I'm anti taking them out of your house to wander around the streets for no good reason other than your fear of who knows what? I've also been very clear we should start at street level and send a harsh message to the folks who want to hang out with a gun on them for no good reason
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Aunt Antifa said:
He just said without full compliance, registration can’t work.

You are either lying about my lying or you are replying to the wrong post.
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Thats right. He said that registration cannot work without full compliance.

That in no way.. is saying that no gun laws ever.

Right now.. we have laws that prevent a 6 year old kid from going into walmart and buying a glock. Stop your lying.
 
ataraxia said:
Then what about comparing homicide, rather than violent crime in n general. It seems like a much more apples to apples comparison.

www.nationmaster.com

European Union vs United States: Crime Facts and Stats

Per 100,000 people, WHO
www.nationmaster.com
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Because its not an apples to apples comparison. Thats because homicide is a legal definition. Different countries define homicide differently. What would classify as homicide in the UK could be classified as manslaughter in the US.
Thats why violent crime in general is a better apples to apples comparison, because it includes all the various definitions.
 
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