[W:2270] Does a Gun Make Your Home Safer?

[Rich2018]

Well your buddy Chase seems to think you need to be a math wizard.

Well he's wrong

As a former machine gunner in the British army, I can attest to the lethality of area shooting.

 

[Glitch]

Typically the limit is 500 yards.

The new Marine Corps rifle qualification is here

Where you hit the target matters a lot more now.

www.marinecorpstimes.com

The Marines fire from four different positions using four different ranges. From 100 meters they use the standing position. From 200 meters they use the kneeling position. From 300 meters they use the sitting position. Finally, from 500 meters they use the prone position. I'm not sure what is "new" about it, they have been firing from those ranges and using those positions since I was in the Marine Corps during the 1970s.

 

[Rucker61]

The Marines fire from four different positions using four different ranges. From 100 meters they use the standing position. From 200 meters they use the kneeling position. From 300 meters they use the sitting position. Finally, from 500 meters they use the prone position. I'm not sure what is "new" about it, they have been firing from those ranges and using those positions since I was in the Marine Corps during the 1970s.

I believe the differences were that they were approaching the ranges from the opposite, they would be using only man sized targets and every range required a passing grade rather than an aggregated final score.

 

[Rich2018]

I believe the differences were that they were approaching the ranges from the opposite, they would be using only man sized targets and every range required a passing grade rather than an aggregated final score.

What accuracy could they manage with a scope, a bipod and a heavier round ?

 

[Rucker61]

What accuracy could they manage with a scope, a bipod and a heavier round ?

LIkely, better. Bipods wouldn't be that common but the military is seeing merit in improving the service rifle in other ways. The most common optic for the Army was the 4x ACOG; they are looking to move some units to a Low Power Variable Optic, 1-6x; the standard size M4/M16 bullet started out at 55 gr in the 60s, moved to 62 gr in the 90s and some Army units are moving to a 77 gr bullet (the largest that can fit in a STANAG magazine). Both services are looking at moving to a large round than the 5.56 NATO to get better performance at long range. The recently announced 6mm ARC seems to be leading that race.

 

[Rich2018]

LIkely, better. Bipods wouldn't be that common but the military is seeing merit in improving the service rifle in other ways. The most common optic for the Army was the 4x ACOG; they are looking to move some units to a Low Power Variable Optic, 1-6x; the standard size M4/M16 bullet started out at 55 gr in the 60s, moved to 62 gr in the 90s and some Army units are moving to a 77 gr bullet (the largest that can fit in a STANAG magazine). Both services are looking at moving to a large round than the 5.56 NATO to get better performance at long range. The recently announced 6mm ARC seems to be leading that race.

I reckon any trained shooter can hit a man sized target at 1,000 yds, from a prone position, with a bipod and scope, and with a 7.62x51mm NATO round or something similar

TurtleDude seems to disagree.

 

[Rucker61]

I reckon any trained shooter can hit a man sized target at 1,000 yds, from a prone position, with a bipod and scope, and with a 7.62x51mm NATO round or something similar

TurtleDude seems to disagree.

You might be surprised. I wouldn't bet on a first round hit myself with my own set up. The difference between a 6 mph crosswind and an 10 mph crosswind at 1000 yards is 26 inches with my 6.5 Creedmoor, meaning if your estimate of the wind is wrong and/or the wind is inconsistent over that range, no matter how well you account for the drop the drift will cause you to miss. For a .308 shooting a factory 168 gr Tipped Sierra Matchking, one of the best bullets for a .308, the difference between 6 and 10 mph wind is over 3 feet.

Long distance precision shooting is a challenge all its own.

 

[Glitch]

I believe the differences were that they were approaching the ranges from the opposite, they would be using only man sized targets and every range required a passing grade rather than an aggregated final score.

Ah. In the 1970s we fired from the 100 meter range using the standing position first, and progressed to further distances, and they were aggregate scores. I recall only making Expert because I was able to get 9 of my 10 shots in the black at 500 meters. All the targets were 6 feet on a side, but the size of the silhouette changed. At 100 meters we used a standard circular bullseye. At 200 and 300 meters we used a "dog" target or a half-human silhouette. At 500 meters it was a human silhouette.

 

[RF667799]

I reckon any trained shooter can hit a man sized target at 1,000 yds, from a prone position, with a bipod and scope, and with a 7.62x51mm NATO round or something similar

TurtleDude seems to disagree.

From "fairly easy" to "trained shooter".

 

[RF667799]

Well he's wrong

As a former machine gunner in the British army, I can attest to the lethality of area shooting.

Strange you weren't familiar with the phonetic alphabet. Too busy honing your machine gun lethality?

 

[Rich2018]

Ah. In the 1970s we fired from the 100 meter range using the standing position first, and progressed to further distances, and they were aggregate scores. I recall only making Expert because I was able to get 9 of my 10 shots in the black at 500 meters. All the targets were 6 feet on a side, but the size of the silhouette changed. At 100 meters we used a standard circular bullseye. At 200 and 300 meters we used a "dog" target or a half-human silhouette. At 500 meters it was a human silhouette.

With a bipod, scope and 7.62x51mm round, do you think you could have hit the man sized target at 1,000 yds from the prone position ?

 

[RF667799]

With a bipod, scope and 7.62x51mm round, do you think you could have hit the man sized target at 1,000 yds from the prone position ?

I think a rifle to fire that round would be helpful as well, but do continue your rabbit hole.

 

[bluesmoke]

You find hilarity in your ignorance

There is no simplicity to gun stats and I suspect your "truth" is grounded in your pro-gun prejudice.

You said: "No, that's not the simple truth, in fact there's no simplicity to it at all." Then, you stated "The highest % of guns are probably in the areas with the highest % of wealth"

You followed up a claim that there's no simplicity at all, with a statement of complete simplicity.

You are ignorant of what you, yourself, say. Generalized statements are simplistic. That doesn't mean they're wrong. It does mean you are simplifying a matter. Nothing, necessarily, wrong with that, either. Except, to produce the evidence of what you say. You can neither produce the evidence that the "highest % of guns are probably in the areas with the highest % of wealth" nor can you produce any evidence that my claim was any diff a simple statement than yours.

"pro-gun prejudice." Are you SNARKING me? I hope code, Turtle and a couple others see some of these posts. Hilarious. You crack me up.

 

[Rich2018]

You said: "No, that's not the simple truth, in fact there's no simplicity to it at all." Then, you stated "The highest % of guns are probably in the areas with the highest % of wealth"

You followed up a claim that there's no simplicity at all, with a statement of complete simplicity.

You are ignorant of what you, yourself, say. Generalized statements are simplistic. That doesn't mean they're wrong. It does mean you are simplifying a matter. Nothing, necessarily, wrong with that, either. Except, to produce the evidence of what you say. You can neither produce the evidence that the "highest % of guns are probably in the areas with the highest % of wealth" nor can you produce any evidence that my claim was any diff a simple statement than yours.

"pro-gun prejudice." Are you SNARKING me? I hope code, Turtle and a couple others see some of these posts. Hilarious. You crack me up.

You might crack someone up, if ever they could understand what you were talking about.

K.I.S.S.

 

[Daddyo]

This fella here is obviously feeling pretty "confident".
I think he maybe likes firearms a bit too much?

View attachment 67373196

I bet the 30 year old man Montez Terriel Lee killed while burning down his pawnshop wishes he had a pair of those guns.

BTW one of your liberal comrades made sure Montez Terriel Lee only got 10 years for the arson and murder. So in the blink of an eye this piece of human waste is gonna be back out on the street.

To your picture.........To bad there wasn't a good guy with a gun at Virginia Tech that day right? We could have used one of TurtleDude's 9mm colonoscopies real bad that day.

 

[RF667799]

You might crack someone up, if ever they could understand what you were talking about.

K.I.S.S.

Calling other posters "stupid" is beyond the line, Rich. Just a friendly reminder.

 

[Rich2018]

.........To bad there wasn't a good guy with a gun at Virginia Tech that day right? We could have used one of TurtleDude's 9mm colonoscopies real bad that day.

*Too

There probably was, but he was s******g his pants in the toilet...you know like the brave "good guy" cop at Parkland.

 

[TurtleDude]

LIkely, better. Bipods wouldn't be that common but the military is seeing merit in improving the service rifle in other ways. The most common optic for the Army was the 4x ACOG; they are looking to move some units to a Low Power Variable Optic, 1-6x; the standard size M4/M16 bullet started out at 55 gr in the 60s, moved to 62 gr in the 90s and some Army units are moving to a 77 gr bullet (the largest that can fit in a STANAG magazine). Both services are looking at moving to a large round than the 5.56 NATO to get better performance at long range. The recently announced 6mm ARC seems to be leading that race.

M14s were refurbished and sent of to the Sandbox, according to my nephew who did a couple tours in the Rangers and then commanded an A Camp" in the SF in Afghanistan.

 

[TurtleDude]

*Too

There probably was, but he was s******g his pants in the toilet...you know like the brave "good guy" cop at Parkland.

Choi chained doors shut and studied where the campus cops were. His victims were all unarmed. A boy I used to coach, and another fellow-whose daughter is a student, were both engineering students at VA tech when that happened. Both were hunkered down in class rooms. The boy I used to coach is a good shot with a gun-he said he wished he had a gun. The other guy is from China-having a gun was not something he thought of

 

[rahl]

Well he's wrong

As a former machine gunner in the British army, I can attest to the lethality of area shooting.

 

[Rich2018]

What are you implying ?

 

[RF667799]

What are you implying ?

Probably, November Foxtrot Whiskey.

 

[rahl]

What are you implying ?

that your post was hilarious. how was that in any way unclear?

 

[Rich2018]

that your post was hilarious. how was that in any way unclear?

Why would it be hilarious ?

 

[rahl]

Why would it be hilarious ?

because you were never in any army, and likely have never even fired a gun, let alone a full auto.