[W: #226] [W: #96] Fruit of the spirit

[Overitall]

Galatians 5:22 - 23
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

Fruit is something produced. Normally a fruit tree will produce fruit if the conditions are favorable. Here we are told what the fruit of the spirit is but not what the condition is to produce the fruit, other than the non specific "walk in the spirit".

Note: I use the lower case "s" when referring to the spirit, because I believe it's referring to the gift of God, not God Himself. I realize that opinion is debatable, but I'd rather not cover that doctrine herein. I'm more interested in what we must do, specifically, to produce the fruit of the spirit where others can see it.

This thread discussion is directed towards Christians, but of course others are free to offer their opinions on the actual subject, despite their disbelief in God.

 

[nota bene]

I go immediately to the Beatitudes.

 

[Ambig]

Galatians 5:22 - 23
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law."

Fruit is something produced. Normally a fruit tree will produce fruit if the conditions are favorable. Here we are told what the fruit of the spirit is but not what the condition is to produce the fruit, other than the non specific "walk in the spirit".

Note: I use the lower case "s" when referring to the spirit, because I believe it's referring to the gift of God, not God Himself. I realize that opinion is debatable, but I'd rather not cover that doctrine herein. I'm more interested in what we must do, specifically, to produce the fruit of the spirit where others can see it.

This thread discussion is directed towards Christians, but of course others are free to offer their opinions on the actual subject, despite their disbelief in God.

Be honest, is my suggestion. Always answer with an honest heart.

 

[Overitall]

Be honest, is my suggestion. Always answer with an honest heart.

So, even atheists can produce "fruit of the spirit" (listed) by just being honest. Why do you suppose the verse under discussion didn't mention it? Honesty is a virtue. I'm not sure it can cultivated. You're either honest or you're not.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Matthew 7:15-20

This, in my opinion, is one of the most ignored lessons of the Bible these days. Jesus was warning us about unrighteous men who would exploit our faith for their own selfish designs. Our history is full of tales of the faithful being conned and taken advantage of by silver-tongued Elmer Gantry types.

The first gift Paul mentions is love. The two greatest commandments involve love.

The motivational speaker Zig Ziglar used to say "You cannot conduct your life in a manner that is inconsistent with your own self image. If you want to change your life, change your self image. If you want to change your self-image, change the way you conduct your life." In other words, if you see yourself as worthless, you will behave as someone who is worthless. If you want to see yourself as a righteous person of value, then act that way. Do the things that a truly righteous person would do. Do it deliberately, do it consistently, and eventually, you will have to start seeing yourself as you desire to be.

the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, 23Meekness, temperance:

Act on these, behave as though these fruits are already in you, and eventually they will be. Nevertheless, always remember that whatever fruit you bear is a gift from God, not your own doing.

 

[Ambig]

So, even atheists can produce "fruit of the spirit" (listed) by just being honest.

Even atheists? In my experience, atheists tend to be a good bit more spiritual than conservative Christians.

Why do you suppose the verse under discussion didn't mention it?

Because it didn't come from God. Just ancient guys, sitting around trying to come up with profound words.

Honesty is a virtue. I'm not sure it can cultivated. You're either honest or you're not.

I hope you're wrong about that. Honesty is the only way to God.

 

[Overitall]

Even atheists? In my experience, atheists tend to be a good bit more spiritual than conservative Christians.

Some are. But since they don't have the "spirit of God" the verses don't apply to them. However, I would be wrong, to suggest the fruit mentioned is not evident in the lives of atheists. Thus the verses regarding the fruit must be more apt to be evident in the life of those Christians walking by the spirit.

Because it didn't come from God. Just ancient guys, sitting around trying to come up with profound words.

Puhlese, we don't need to believe in God to respectfully discuss matters contained in the Bible. I'll concede you aren't interested in becoming a believer.

I hope you're wrong about that. Honesty is the only way to God.

Is it? Then why aren't more atheists believers?

 

[Overitall]

I go immediately to the Beatitudes.

This one, especially is fitting on a discussion board.

"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of Me."

Of course walking away from those wanting only to insult you and your beliefs is a good option I use a lot. Don't know why it bothers someone when they are told to: Enjoy the rest of your day.

 

[Divine_Wind]

So, even atheists can produce "fruit of the spirit" (listed) by just being honest. Why do you suppose the verse under discussion didn't mention it? Honesty is a virtue. I'm not sure it can cultivated. You're either honest or you're not.

Because it was pushing the point of an early Christian religion which was considered a minor cult by both the Roman pagans and the Jewish hierarchy 2000 years ago.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Is it? Then why aren't more atheists believers?

Atheists are believers; they believe there is no afterlife, nothing outside of the physical universe and "when you're dead, you're dead".

They're also a very, very small percentage of human beings. Most human beings have spiritual beliefs and have done so consistently all through human history.

 

[Overitall]

Because it was pushing the point of an early Christian religion which was considered a minor cult by both the Roman pagans and the Jewish hierarchy 2000 years ago.

What was "pushed"? But more importantly why would it be pushed when all of the fruit mentioned are things unbelievers can manifest? The verse says that those "walking by the spirit" will produce the fruit. There must be something more going on here with the introduction of a certain type of action leading to an end result.

 

[Overitall]

Atheists are believers; they believe there is no afterlife, nothing outside of the physical universe and "when you're dead, you're dead".

They're also a very, very small percentage of human beings. Most human beings have spiritual beliefs and have done so consistently all through human history.

Sure, but atheists can/do manifest what is listed in Galatians without the requirement to "walk by the spirit ".

 

[Divine_Wind]

What was "pushed"? But more importantly why would it be pushed when all of the fruit mentioned are things unbelievers can manifest? The verse says that those "walking by the spirit" will produce the fruit. There must be something more going on here with the introduction of a certain type of action leading to an end result.

The neophyte religion of Christianity. Human nature is tribal; this involves nurturing family and working well with fellow tribal members. The "fruit" is peace and security. No magical spells or supernatural being necessary outside of natural evolution results.

Yes, it's very poetic...and I'm not much of a poet. I do like Haikus though but not claiming to be very good. Example:

NOT OVER IT ALL

BECAUSE I'M STILL CURIOUS

LOOKING FOR ANSWERS
​

 

[Divine_Wind]

Sure, but atheists can/do manifest what is listed in Galatians without the requirement to "walk by the spirit ".

Yes, because they are human beings.

FWIW, most "atheists" have spiritual beliefs. They just don't want to admit that they believe in something that can't be proven any more than Christians can prove there is a God. Real atheists, those who believe there is nothing beyond physical existence, are very rare. About 2%, IIRC. Mostly young, arrogant males who eventually outgrow the phase.

 

[Overitall]

The neophyte religion of Christianity. Human nature is tribal; this involves nurturing family and working well with fellow tribal members. The "fruit" is peace and security. No magical spells or supernatural being necessary outside of natural evolution results.

Yes, it's very poetic...and I'm not much of a poet. I do like Haikus though but not claiming to be very good. Example:

NOT OVER IT ALL

BECAUSE I'M STILL CURIOUS

LOOKING FOR ANSWERS
​

That’s all well and fine, but your points are matters for another thread. I’m trying to get a take on what “walking by the spirit” means relative to the fruit of the spirit.

 

[Divine_Wind]

That’s all well and fine, but your points are matters for another thread. I’m trying to get a take on what “walking by the spirit” means relat to the fruit of the spirit.

It means accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior, but, again, I'm a shitty poet. What do you think it means?

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Sure, but atheists can/do manifest what is listed in Galatians without the requirement to "walk by the spirit ".

Paul referred to "Gentiles" ie, all those who do not believe, when he wrote

14 Even Gentiles, who do not have God’s written law, show that they know his law when they instinctively obey it, even without having heard it. 15 They demonstrate that God’s law is written in their hearts, for their own conscience and thoughts either accuse them or tell them they are doing right. Romans 2:14-15

A righteous man does not have to be a believer to be righteous. God will judge based on what is in one's heart. What is in one's heart will be manifest by their actions, their words, and the fruit thereof.

 

[Ambig]

Some are. But since they don't have the "spirit of God" the verses don't apply to them. However, I would be wrong, to suggest the fruit mentioned is not evident in the lives of atheists. Thus the verses regarding the fruit must be more apt to be evident in the life of those Christians walking by the spirit.

I can't really follow that.

Puhlese, we don't need to believe in God to respectfully discuss matters contained in the Bible.

You asked me a question. I answered it. I have no idea why you think my answer was disrespectful.

You asked why a certain Bible verse didn't mention the truth I presented. I answered that the verse was not written by God, but by men.

I'll concede you aren't interested in becoming a believer.

In what? Your God? No, I consider faith in a specific God to be the number one reason why so many are confused... and therefore off the path to God.

Is it? Then why aren't more atheists believers?

Again, you seem to be asking why more atheists don't believe in your particular God.

But I'm trying to discuss the actual God. Atheists are more attuned to the actual God than are Christians.

 

[Ambig]

Of course walking away from those wanting only to insult you and your beliefs is a good option I use a lot. Don't know why it bothers someone when they are told to: Enjoy the rest of your day.

It's so easy for our minds to fool us. So it tells us that we are being insulted, when we are actually just being pushed to express our honest truth.

And so we rationalize our flight from debate... which is the very purpose of this place.

This is why I never avoid hard questions. I don't want my mind fooling me.

Well, one reason. Mostly I just love to be asked difficult questions. By engaging them, I grow, thereby moving closer to God.

 

[Ambig]

But more importantly why would it be pushed when all of the fruit mentioned are things unbelievers can manifest? The verse says that those "walking by the spirit" will produce the fruit.

Yes, and by their fruits, you shall know them.

Many of the Christians here in this place seem less fruitful than many of the atheists.

So which group is more likely walking in the spirit?

 

[Ambig]

Real atheists, those who believe there is nothing beyond physical existence, are very rare. About 2%, IIRC. Mostly young, arrogant males who eventually outgrow the phase.

Not in my experience. And I've had physical and online engagement with lots of humanists (atheists).

Most really and truly believe there is no spirit world beyond this physical one.

 

[Stealers Wheel]

Yes, because they are human beings.

FWIW, most "atheists" have spiritual beliefs. They just don't want to admit that they believe in something that can't be proven any more than Christians can prove there is a God. Real atheists, those who believe there is nothing beyond physical existence, are very rare. About 2%, IIRC. Mostly young, arrogant males who eventually outgrow the phase.

Well, to accuse "most atheists" of being dishonest and "arrogant males" is not productive, any more than accusing "most Christians" of being hypocrites. When we dismiss those whose views differ from our own as 'dishonest' or 'arrogant' or 'foolish' we are simply saying we do not wish to dialogue with them. Yet, here we are, dishing out clever insults to one another all day long.

 

[Divine_Wind]

Yes, and by their fruits, you shall know them.

Many of the Christians here in this place seem less fruitful than many of the atheists.

So which group is more likely walking in the spirit?

Agreed on less fruitful with an emphasis on "here".

Extremists on either end tend to be less fruitful since they are disruptive and pushy so I'd say both groups are less likely to be walking with any spirits.

FWIW, many extremists have mental issues. The extremism is an emotional area of which they have little to no control. The Qless nutjobs at all the Trump rallies and the Insurrection are an example of extremism.

 

[Divine_Wind]

But I'm trying to discuss the actual God. Atheists are more attuned to the actual God than are Christians.

Disagreed since that can't be proven true since it's not within human ability to prove or disprove the existence of God or anything else that's supernatural.

Ergo, good luck proving your god is better or doesn't exist than the Christian god...who is also the Abrahamic god, but few are willing to admit it.

Since the existence of God can't be proven, disproved or inferior to another god such as Athena, it's more practical to discuss the positive and negative effects of spiritual beliefs upon our laws and governments.

 

[Ambig]

Agreed on less fruitful with an emphasis on "here".

Extremists on either end tend to be less fruitful since they are disruptive and pushy so I'd say both groups are less likely to be walking with any spirits.

FWIW, many extremists have mental issues. The extremism is an emotional area of which they have little to no control. The Qless nutjobs at all the Trump rallies and the Insurrection are an example of extremism.

You think the members of this forum are extremists?

Yeah, some are, but most people just like to gather together and clash worldviews. It's healthy. I wish everyone would do it. There'd be a lot less confusion in the world if everyone engaged in written debate.